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Type 2: Fasting Experiment To Lower Bg

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by AllieRainbow, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Up early again this morning, feeling good, and surprisingly not hungry at all. I hope to be eating this morning once the BG is in the right zone of under 5.0, and will be breaking my fast with either some salmon and raw veg, with some soft cheese and nuts, or eggs and bacon with mushrooms and kale or spinach. I will decide what to eat once I get there.

    On an interesting side note, I noticed yesterday that my typing speed has increased a lot, especially when writing the first draft of anything, and I am making less typos when writing. My thoughts seems to be clearer and more organised and the speed of thinking I used to have when I was younger and fitter has come back. At the height of my symptoms when the diabetes was uncontrolled and as yet undiagnosed, I felt very fuzzy and struggled to think clearly. I think the fuzzy-headedness is a major reason why I had those symptoms for a while without connecting the dots and realising that I wasn't just a bit tired, but that there was something wrong with me. I struggled with writing last year, so I am very optimistic that I will be able to move things forward this year with my writing schedule.

    I have a busy day ahead, so I am taking some time on waking to relax and rehydrate with a couple of glasses of water. I will be doing a reflexology session later today, and a meditation class tomorrow evening, so this is my part of the week for being mindful and calm. I am working on extending that period to the whole week, but it is early days yet. I have dealt with a lot of stress throughout my life, and I suspect that the stress and ensuing cortisol has played a major part in my developing diabetes.

    I believe that dealing with the way I handle stress is a key part of the puzzle of how to control my condition and put it into remission, alongside diet and lifestyle changes.

    I have just got back from my slightly stressful day. I am now on 5.6 matching the lowest I have been since just after 7am this morning. I am feeling good, but need a couple of glasses of water to rehydrate as I have been in the car a while. I thought the BG would come down way before now, but it looks like this fast may extend into tomorrow. I am fine with that, and still feeling good. If I start to feel unwell I will break the fast but so far it has been fairly easy. I have had a couple of coffees with a small amount of coconut cream in so far today.

    According to The Complete Guide to Fasting by Jason Fung, the second day is the hardest. I have experienced any significant feelings of hunger, just a feeling of being a little peckish around 6.30pm, which disappeared quickly. I am at almost 50 hours fasting now and feel great. I will check my BG later before bed but it doesn't look like it is going to come down before tomorrow, so I may be breaking my fast with breakfast.

    Day 10 - Weight: 114.5 kilos / BMI 37.3 / Waist to Height Ratio: 67%

    6.08am - FBG: 5.2
    7.08am - DP: 5.6
    ? - Under 5.0: Not happening tonight, but not hungry so OK
    ? - Pre-meal: ?
    ? - Post-meal (2hrs): ?
    ? - Post-meal (3 hrs): ?
    10.58pm - Bedtime: 5.5

    Meal: A couple of cups of coffee with a little coconut cream, all other fluids water.

    Carbs: 6.6g
    Protein: 3.2g
    Fat: 26.2g
    Cals: 275

    Length of Fast: Still continuing from Monday night - now over 50 hours
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 5.8
    Breathalyser reading: 0.023% BAC

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    41.7 - Day 2
    41.5 - Day 3
    41.2 - Day 4
    40.9 - Day 5
    40.5 - Day 6
    40.2 - Day 7
    39.9 - Day 8
    39.6 - Day 9
    39.4 - Day 10

    I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
     
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    #41 AllieRainbow, Jun 13, 2018 at 7:02 AM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  2. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Im following your journey with great interest. Its totally awesome what you are doing and sharing it in such detail with others who can learn form you experiment too. I take my hat off to you. Well done. You really have taken the bull by the horns!
     
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  3. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @Debandez - I have learned a lot so far from reading about other people's experiences, particularly those people who are fasting, both intermittent and for longer.
     
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  4. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    50hrs 26mins into the fast - thinking about my next meal and mentally saying Nom nom nom!!

    I will be going to bed soon. I can't help thinking about that lonely keto butter chicken curry in the fridge just longing to nestle in my stomach some time tomorrow - weirdly I am thinking about what I will eat to break the fast, but not actually feeling hungry.

    I bet those flavours will have marinaded together beautifully since Monday evening. I don't think I have anticipated a meal this much ever.
     
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  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    [QUOTE="AllieRainbow, post: 1810147, member: 473025

    I will be going to bed soon. I can't help thinking about that lonely keto butter chicken curry in the fridge just longing to nestle in my stomach some time tomorrow - weirdly I am thinking about what I will eat to break the fast, but not actually feeling hungry.

    .[/QUOTE]

    Weird isn’t it.. I spend ages thinking about what meal to break a fast with without being hungry. I’ve even been known to watching cooking progs whilst fasting.
     
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  6. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I know - I am addicted to the Headbangers Kitchen on YouTube - the food is lovely and he is very funny.
     
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  7. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that anyone who knows me well would be thoroughly shocked at me fasting at all, given my love for food - but now it is little and not so often, and I am enjoying it a lot more.
     
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  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think fasting has changed my whole relationship with food. From a comfort eating carb addict to a food as fuel (but still needs to taste good) person. Today for example driving through France bfast was a Starbucks coffee with milk (couldn’t get any cream) then next had some ham and cheese from the supermarket for a late afternoon snack. Dinner beef carpaccio and lamb chops. Don’t feel in the slightest bit hungry.
     
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  9. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I totally get what you mean - I was heavily into carbs - not sweets, but lovely sourdough bread. I have spent the last three years of my life baking, even doing a very passable french baton, and learning a lot about the art and science of bread.

    Now it is all about the LCHF diet, I am really enjoying simple food and building up my repertoire of keto recipes and learning about how to cook with very different ingredients.

    The food seems to taste all the better for waiting for it and I have also found the improvements in cognitive function and energy fantastic. I feel like my brain has re-set itself to when I was 20 again, and have been busy today working out plots and character arcs for a mystery series I have been working on for the last 3-4 years.

    i have been having an absolute blast planning the wedding of two on my characters and creating their back stories in more detail. This is a total change from where I was a few weeks ago - I feel like my brain is now on rocket fuel, not ketones!

    Now I am sorting out my health I feel for the first time in a long time that the possibilities are unlimited for what I will achieve in every area of my life.
     
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  10. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    You picked so much up in such a short space if time. I'm only just getting my head around IF etc 6 months after diagnosis! Your experiment is such a good way of working things out.
     
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  11. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am an over-achiever!! Sometimes a good thing to be, sometimes not so good - it has been the cause of a lot of stress for me over the years. I like to find out how things work and test, test test.

    So far my results have surprised me.
     
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  12. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Up as early as usual (in my new normal) to feeling very clear headed and pretty great. I had no idea that it was possible to fast like this and feel "normal" - or as has turned out, better than normal. I had read the Magnificent May Fast thread
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/magnificent-may-fast.147599/ with interest a few days ago and thought that I would not being doing anything like that, but this experiment has turned into a more extended fast by accident rather than by design. I suspect I would have found it more difficult if I had decided in advance to fast for 2-3 days.

    It seems that what I thought was hunger before was largely all in the mind. I have had small feelings of being "peckish" rather than hungry only a couple of times over the last couple of days, and they were gone within around 20 minutes to half an hour. I am hoping my blood sugar will come down into the range today, but if not I may adjust that range upwards slightly to under 5.2 again, so that I can go back to eating one meal a day. I will decide how I feel later today.

    As far as how I feel goes, I have now finally got rid of the bunged up feeling in my nose I have had for years, and my sense of smell, which is very poor, is actually getting slightly better. I could clearly smell plants as we drove along yesterday, when I usually have to have very strong smells to smell anything at all. I am wondering if that is a result of less inflammation in my nose due to following a very low carb diet of 20g or under a day. I have a slightly runny nose today which I feel might be my sinuses clearing out as my cheeks feel slightly different.

    Following reading the thread by @CherryAA
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-personal-hypothesis-t2-low-insulin-diet.127156/ I bought a cheap breathalyser from Amazon and started to measure the acetone in my breath to see if I was in ketosis. I have had confirmation via a friend's nose every time I have seen her since I started the LCHF diet that I smell pleasantly of boiled sweets. I am not really sure how the readings relate to using a Ketonix meter, but I seem to be fairly consistent in my readings of around 0.014% BAC at the start, to 0.024% BAC when the fasts were around 24 hours long, to 0.033% BAC today after 63 hours fasting.

    My main feeling is of lots of energy, and very few of the aches and pains I thought were due to age. I am taking very few painkillers now as I don't seem to experience the aches in my back and knees that have been a problem for years. This could be a result of the rapid and substantial weightloss I have had in the last few weeks, and particularly since I started this experiment. To date over the last 10 days I have lost 4.9 kilos (8.8 pounds), which has accelerated since the fast start on Monday. Looking at other people's experiences, some of the weight lost since Monday will go back on, but as yet I have no data for that until I start eating again.

    This experience has proved I can fast for a few days with no issues at all. I suspect this may be largely because I have still got a lot of weight to lose, upwards of 100 pounds. That is a lot of fat to burn for energy.

    I have taken a decision to stop the fast at this point as I am eating out tomorrow night and I want a reasonable length of fast between breaking this fast and the next meal. I am also starting to feel a little iffy, so time for food. I will be eating a few walnuts and then waiting around 40 minutes before eating anything else so I don't over do it.

    I am wondering at the moment if I have a slight cold, as I have felt a bit sniffly today and I am feeling little tired tonight. My BG readings have been higher than they were a few days ago for the last three-four days, and I wonder if that was the cold developing.

    Day 11 - Weight: 113.6 kilos / BMI 37.0 / Waist to Height Ratio: 67%

    5.55am - FBG: 5.4
    7.05am - DP: 5.8
    ? - Under 5.0: This didn't happen and I took a decision to end the fast
    10.28am - Pre-meal: 6.2
    12.42pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 6.1
    2.02pm - Post-meal (3.5 hrs): 5.8
    10.29pm - Bedtime: 5.7

    Meal: Walnuts and pork scratchings, then keto butter chicken curry with added kale and mushrooms, cottage cheese, cucumber and olives. Coffee with coconut cream, a beef oxo in boiling water, other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment today).

    Carbs: 21.7g
    Protein: 74.1g
    Fat: 136.1g
    Cals: 1607

    Length of Fast: 63hrs 12mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 5.9
    Breathalyser reading: 0.33% BAC

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    41.7 - Day 2
    41.5 - Day 3
    41.2 - Day 4
    40.9 - Day 5
    40.5 - Day 6
    40.2 - Day 7
    39.9 - Day 8
    39.6 - Day 9
    39.4 - Day 10
    39.3 - Day 11

    I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
     
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    #52 AllieRainbow, Jun 14, 2018 at 7:32 AM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  13. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Remember you need salt for health even when fasting, if a fast is over 1 day long you should be having a little normal salt each day. With the length you are going If you are not having brone broth, the a suger free electrolyte tablet would be sensible along with the normal salt.
     
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  14. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You are right there - I should have added to my meal descriptions that I have been putting a couple of twists of my pink himalayan salt grinder on my food, and today I had a beef Oxo cube in a pint of water to add some more salt as I was conscious that I would need some more today.
     
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  15. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I broke my fast today after over 63 hours, partly because I am going out for a curry tomorrow night and I didn't want to break my fast in a relatively uncontrolled environment, and partly because I am beginning to wonder if I might have a slight cold as my readings over the last 4 days have been higher than last week.

    I am going to be eating around 6.30-7pm tomorrow, which will give me a fast of around 32-33 hours, and will be eating my usual in an Indian restaurant, which is a sizzler dish of meat or fish accompanied by a large salad. No bread or rice, and water to drink. I have been eating like that for the last few years, and find I enjoy the food more than when I ate rice and naan bread, as I never feel stodged and just feel like I have eaten a nice meal to satiety.

    I feel very positive about the fast, and found it quite easy. I was never bothered by actual hunger, just feeling slightly peckish a couple of times, which I dealt with by having a coffee with a little coconut cream.

    I will keep up my current plan, but if the BG doesn't go down I will eat once a day, and then in a couple of weeks will attempt another longer fast for between 3-5 days to see if I get better results next time.
     
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    #55 AllieRainbow, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:21 PM
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  16. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As you have realised, fasting is the fastest way to reach ketosis and normalize glucose levels...

    Once we overcome our misguided fear of fats, fasting and ketones, we are well on our way to recovery...well done!
     
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  17. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You may enjoy this interview with Valter Longo on the effects of 4-5 days fast.

     
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  18. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @kokhongw - I will have a look at that tomorrow.
     
  19. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Another early start. The difference between how I feel now and how I felt at diagnosis is huge. I wake, and immediately I am awake, full of energy, and ready to start the day. When I go to bed I am asleep minutes after my head touched the pillow and I am not waking during the night at all. Before diagnosis I woke several times a night to go to the toilet, and often had sleepless nights with my normal state being complete exhaustion 24/7. I realise now what a difference running high blood sugars can make.

    I have got rid of the sniffles today, and feel fine, and my blood glucose this morning is the second lowest it has been since I started testing on 6th May this year (2018). Four out of the last five days my fasting blood glucose has been in the non-diabetic range. For the first twelve days of testing my fasting BG was firmly in the diabetic range. What a transformation already, and all down to eating LCHF, monitoring blood sugar with my meter, tracking the results and making adjustments to my diet. I am excited to think how this year is going to go now, having had such a bad start in terms of the way I felt and now such a transformation.

    It is too early to draw conclusions yet, but I have seen my symptoms of inflammation disappear. My permanently sore left knee is fine most of the time unless I have been walking for too long, and too long is now around 45 minutes rather than 5 as it was before. My right index finger, which frequently swells around the top joint with what appears to be some sort of rheumatism or arthritic pain (family history) has now been pain free for weeks and is no longer swollen to any degree. General pain levels are much lower all round, with occasional pain rather than chronic.

    I cannot see myself going back to the way of eating and lifestyle I had before. I feel too good now on these changes: following a low carb high fat diet with intermittent fasting and regular daily exercise.

    My Buddhist mediation class last night was a really positive experience. I felt the meditation was easier than last week, and when I got home,e my blood pressure was 134/76, after getting a reading of 157/103 a week ago at the doctor's and ending up on a prescription of low dose Ramipril. Having had another high measurement the evening before, I feel that the drop was probably mainly to do with the meditation, rather than the drugs.

    My plan for today involves breaking my fast this evening when I go out for a curry with friends. I have long been used to making low carb choices in this situation, due to moving away from eating stodge when I eat out, and so I will be eating my usual of a tandoori sizzler dish of meat or fish, and accompanying it with salad rather than rice or bread. No alcohol, as I drink very little and tend to drink water when I go out as I went off the taste of alcohol years ago, and only occasionally drink a glass of wine.

    Day 12 - Weight: 113.6 kilos / BMI 37.0 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

    5.26am - FBG: 5.1
    10.09am - DP: 6.0
    ? - Under 5.0: ?
    6.34pm - Pre-meal: 5.6
    8.26pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 7.5
    9.46pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 7.8
    12.13am - Bedtime: 6.3

    Meal: Tandoori chicken, lamb and prawns. vegetable makhani curry (with large chucks of potato - avoided the potato but there will have been some fragments int he sauce from the cooking process), with a green salad. Coffee with coconut milk, beef oxo in boiling water, all other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake.

    Carbs: 49.5g
    Protein: 128.4g
    Fat: 117.7g
    Cals: 1776
    (I have had to guesstimate the above but they seem about right given the BG measurements after the meal)

    Length of Fast: 32hrs 6mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.2
    Breathalyser reading: 0.35% BAC

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    41.7 - Day 2
    41.5 - Day 3
    41.2 - Day 4
    40.9 - Day 5
    40.5 - Day 6
    40.2 - Day 7
    39.9 - Day 8
    39.6 - Day 9
    39.4 - Day 10
    39.3 - Day 11
    39.3 - Day 12

    I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    #59 AllieRainbow, Jun 15, 2018 at 6:25 AM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  20. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Up slightly later today, tired from last night's socialising, and with a migraine (aura no headache), which I get sometimes, so nothing to do with the fasting and diet changes, although as I ate out last night it could be something in the meal that has triggered it.

    Last night's meal was lovely, but I ordered a vegetable makhani curry to share with my husband - we usually share meals, often ordering two different mains so we can try a bit of each. Unusually it had massive chunks of potato in, and although I didn't eat any of them, I will have eaten fragments as they were well cooked and rather fluffy, so will have dissolved into the sauce a little.

    A huge naan bread came with our mixed tandoori dish, but I left that to my husband and strangely did not find it at all appetising. I think the associations I have with starchy food now are all negative - diabetic complications being the first thing I think of now. I also really didn't want to eat the potato either, so I think the way I think about starchy carbs has changed a lot. Before I made these changes, I would have eaten the huge naan on my own. And pinched a bit of someone else's.

    I drank water with the meal, and in the pub afterwards, which is no different to before - I have only had water on meals out for years. I would have probably had a diet coke int he pub, but I have decided to avoid anything with sweetness as there is some research suggesting that sweetness can cause issues for diabetics. I find alcohol less and less appealing as I get older, after losing my taste for it while pregnant with my first child, and never really getting it back.

    After the last week, where I set the BG level at under 5, I am debating on whether to raise that to 5.2 again and work one reducing it in another week or so. I will have a think about what length of fast I want to have later - I really need to move my meal to the morning so I am tempted to eat this morning to correct the time issue and effectively start the eat to my meter approach again after eating a meal this morning, as there is such a big difference in how my body handles carbs at night compared to the morning. Maybe this will "re-set" things and help me move things lower if I get rid of the spike with the evening meal. I don't spike above 1.5-1.9, die to food choices, and only saw a rise of 1.9 yesterday after the meal, inspire of the potato (apparently my Krytonite), but in the morning my BG often drops slightly after the meal or has a rise of 0.2-0.4, so there is a big difference there.

    This is where using a meter is really helpful in gaining an understanding of what and when to eat for better results, and is all the more frustrating with the NHS policy of no meters for Type 2s. People are being discouraged from monitoring their own bodies - criminal in my opinion. I am sure I would not have been able to see such good results if I hadn't bought my own monitor and self-funded the strips.

    Tiny rant over.

    Day 13 - Weight: 113.9 kilos / BMI 37.1 / Waist to Height Ratio: 66%

    7.20amam - FBG: 6.1
    8.43am - DP: 6.7
    ? - Under 5.2: Eating early today to improve sugars later today
    11.40am - Pre-meal: 6.3
    2.05pm - Post-meal (2hrs): 6.4
    2.52pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.6
    11.33pm - Bedtime: 5.7

    Meal: Kale omelette topped with mozzarella, bacon, cucumber and yellow pepper salad dressed with olive oil, apple cider vinegar and balsamic vinegar, with parmesan, olives, almonds and pecans, pork scratchings. Coffee with double cream, all other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake.

    Carbs: 21.1g
    Protein: 90.3g
    Fat: 153.6g
    Cals: 1824

    Length of Fast: 11hrs 6mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.0
    Breathalyser reading: 0.22% BAC

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 - 0.4 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    40.2 - Day 7
    39.9 - Day 8
    39.6 - Day 9
    39.4 - Day 10
    39.3 - Day 11
    39.3 - Day 12
    39.2 - Day 13

    I suspect that doing more readings whilst intermittently fasting has probably skewed this a little downwards.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    #60 AllieRainbow, Jun 16, 2018 at 10:41 AM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
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