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Type 2: Fasting Experiment To Lower Bg

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by AllieRainbow, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been pootling around with a LCHF diet for the last month. My aims are to lower BG and to lose weight.

    I have struggled with portion size over the last 3 weeks, mainly to do with over eating due to stress, and as a result have only lost a few pounds after an initial big drop in the weeks since diagnosis, although I have lost 24 pounds in the last 52 days, with most of it off in the first 3 weeks.

    On the BG front, I have had readings of under 5.5 three times - cause for celebration!! I am usually in the 6s or low 7s most of the time, with occasional forays into the high 5s. My current average blood sugar is 7 over the last 30 days since I got my BG meter.

    I tried a couple of small fasts a few weeks ago, eating once a day, and found that easier than moderating myself over 2 meals, which tended to get too big.

    My new plan of action is to only eat when the meter gets to the 5s. I started today and it took until 4.20pm to get to the magic zone with a 5.8. I have just eaten a salmon salad dressed with olive oil and apple cider vinegar, with some olives, pecans and almonds, and a little full fat soft cheese, followed by a coffee with coconut cream and a small glass of red wine. Total carbs were 21.2g, net carbs of 13.6g.

    The plan post meal is to do some vigorous exercise - so the lawn is about to be scalped, and a brisk walk, to see if that brings the blood sugar down.

    From my limited experience a walk seems to dramatically affect the blood sugars and bring it back down into the low 5s.

    Tomorrow I will be going to my first meditation class, which may help with the stress of the diagnosis.

    Has anyone got experience of eating like this to share?
     
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  2. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I haven't done that, but that sounds like a good strategy. Many people practice intermittent fasting by eating just one meal a day, which is what you might end up doing.
     
  3. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You could be right - I looked back over my results over the last few weeks and it seems like I go into the 5s late afternoon-early evening, so I think I will be eating one meal a day until my blood sugars come down into the 5s more consistently.
     
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  4. shelley262

    shelley262 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @AllieRainbow sounds like you’re doing well and it’s good to switch things around a bit. My biggest weight loss and bg lowering time was when - after a month of lowcarb eating I switched to a whole month of one meal a day. I fasted 23 hours and ate during the one hour. I started out in 6/7 s especially fbg but by end of four weeks I was more 4/5 with bgs in 5s this was last October/ November and then moved to several one meal a day days but two/ three meals other days. Now my Hbac1 is 30 and my bgs are 3/4/5 low 5s usually after big meal but most 4s and my bmi is 20 and bp 116/74 it worked for me plus no medications for 8 months now. We’re all different in what works for us but I do think it helps to switch stuff around good luck
     
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  5. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Shelley - that is really encouraging. You have had great results. Fingers crossed that I see the same success that you did - we will see if I can sustain this way of eating.
     
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    #5 AllieRainbow, Jun 4, 2018 at 7:09 PM
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  6. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Well done on your progress. Brisk walks will ultimately lower your blood glucose (initially you may get a rise say over 1.5 hours) but the overall drop should be positive. If you walk after each meal it should blunt the peak of any spike. I am about to do mine.
     
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  7. Kailee56

    Kailee56 LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Wow, quite a while ago I brought up this topic after reading this article on Optimizing Nutrition.

    https://optimisingnutrition.com/2016/02/15/how-to-use-your-glucose-meter-as-a-fuel-gauge/

    It actually made sense to me. In the article there is an example of a woman who did this to bring her glucose under control, showing a steady decline of her average over time. Once she got her glucose under control, she switched to using her weight to decide if she would eat.

    https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/01/01/7011/

    I still think it makes sense, I just have a hard time implementing it with a crazy work schedule. Please let us know how it works for you.
     
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  8. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I plan on updating this thread to show my progress. I read that article today when I was thinking about starting a fast as I hadn't eaten by 2pm and thought I could continue a little longer. After reading that article I decided to give it a go. I think I probably read your post while searching for posts on fasting, and I remember reading it before.
     
  9. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just as a marker for where I am starting from, here are the stats for today:

    Day 1 - Weight: 118.5 kilos / BMI 38.6 / Waist to Height Ratio: 71%

    6.08am - FBG: 6.2
    9.59am - DP (Dawn Phenomenon): 7.3
    4.20pm - In the 5s: 5.8
    5.05pm - Pre-meal: 6.0
    7.03pm - Post-meal (2 hrs): 7.1
    8.19pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.1
    11.50pm - Bedtime: 5.1

    Meal: Salmon salad dressed with olive oil and apple cider vinegar, with olives, pecans and almonds, and a little full fat soft cheese, followed by coffee with coconut cream and a small glass of red wine. All other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

    Carbs: 21.2g
    Protein: 53.0g
    Fat: 92.5g
    Cals: 1224

    Length of Fast: 19hrs 50mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.3
     
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    #9 AllieRainbow, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:32 PM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Hi @AllieRainbow
    Sounds like a really good strategy and once you get used to it you could even try some slightly longer fasts too.
    My bloods are always at their lowest when fasting (usually on day 3). Good luck with your experiment.. I'm sure you'll have much success.
     
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  11. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hi @AllieRainbow

    As others have said, this sounds like a helpful strategy. Intermittent fasting, and in particular eating one meal a day really helped to kickstart my weight loss and bring my blood sugars down.
     
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  12. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Day 2 - Weight: 117.0 kilos / BMI 38.1 / Waist to Height Ratio: 71%

    7.02am - FBG: 6.3
    9.04am - DP: 6.6
    5.52pm - In the 5s: 5.2
    6.22pm - Pre-meal: 5.4
    8.35pm - Post-meal (2 hrs): 7.6
    9.48pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.4
    12.48am - Bedtime: 6.0

    Meal: Turkey and bacon salad dressed with olive oil and apple cider vinegar, with olives, pecans and macadamias, and a little full fat soft cheese, followed by coffee with coconut cream.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

    Carbs: 27.2g
    Protein: 107.2g
    Fat: 88.6g
    Cals: 1335

    Length of Fast: 25hrs 17mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.2

    Having looked at the salad, there was too much of it and I added carrots today, which I think caused the rise of 2.2 mmol/l at the two hour point. There was also a lot more protein than yesterday, and less fat. I struggled to get enough fat into the meal due to having turkey as the main protein source. I will try pork chops tomorrow. All other fluids water.

    There was a big drop in weight today, partly to do with a lot of exercise that was different to my normal routine last week leading to water retention - I have lost 6.8lb over the last three days, with 3.2lb of that today. I have also lowered the carbs over the last couple of days, and the calories are much lower than I normally eat, combined with a lot of exercise continuing into this week. I am drinking a lot of water to guard against dehydration.

    Today was OK but I did find myself getting quite hungry while waiting for the readings to come down low enough to eat. The morning was fine, but around 4.30pm I had a coffee with a small amount of coconut cream in to deal with feeling hungry. This made it no problem to wait until I got into the 5s and I was surprised to see a 5.2 on the meter just before 6pm. It did mean that my meal was rather hurried as I went to my first mediation class this evening, which I found helpful, and will be going again next week. I may fit in another mediation class on Thursday evening as I am seeing the Doctor on Friday about my blood pressure to see if it has gone down.
     
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    #12 AllieRainbow, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:34 PM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  13. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am posting with my macros early today as I am up North all day visiting my parents. I have prepared a meal to take with me to break my fast once the blood sugar is in the 5s, or at around 24 hours, whichever works out with my schedule. Although I planned in pork chops, I have gone with roast turkey and bacon as it was quicker to sort out this morning.

    I got into the 5s much earlier today, so I decided to break the fast early in order to bring my meal time to recently afternoon, as I deal with carbs much better in the late morning/early afternoon.

    Day 3 - Weight: 116.8 kilos / BMI 38.0 / Waist to Height Ratio: 69%

    7.51am - FBG: 6.0
    9.29am - DP: 7.1
    12.52pm - In the 5s: 5.8
    1.10pm - Pre-meal: 5.8
    2.56pm - Post-meal (2 hrs): 6.6
    4.44pm - Post-meal (3.5 hrs): 6.7
    11.16pm - Bedtime: 5.7

    Meal: Turkey and bacon salad with caesar dressing, with olives, almonds and macadamias, and 2 Babybel cheeses. 2 x coffee with small amount of coconut cream. All other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

    Carbs: 18.8g
    Protein: 100.4g
    Fat: 94.3g
    Cals: 1327

    Length of Fast: 18hrs 48mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.2

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by 0.2 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    41.7 - Day 2
    41.5 - Day 3

    It will be interesting to see if this continues.

    I have also noticed that there is a rise every morning around an hour or two after waking and taking the fasting blood glucose reading. I am going to try eating either a small piece of cheese, probably a mature cheddar for the higher fat content, or an egg scrambled in butter, to see if this affects the rise at this time of day. I am also working on bringing the meal time forward a little every day until I get to around 11am for the meal time, unless of course I don't get into the 5s until later in the day. I deal with carbs a lot better at this time of day and there is also a lot of time for exercise to help bring down the readings after this too.

    So far I feel like I am getting good results and that this will be sustainable over at least a few weeks.
     
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    #13 AllieRainbow, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:00 AM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  14. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I decided to eat a small amount of tinned salmon (50g) when I woke up to see if that would help bring the morning readings down. I think it may have worked, but I don't have enough data yet, however there was only a small rise this morning. My weight was up this morning due to inflammation of my knee from being in the car for around 3 hours yesterday.

    Day 4
    - Weight: 117.0 kilos / BMI 38.1 / Waist to Height Ratio: 69%

    6.18am - FBG: 6.3
    8.22am - DP: 6.6
    11.27am - In the 5s: 5.8
    12.44pm - Pre-meal: 5.8
    2.40pm - Post-meal (2 hrs): 6.1
    3.37pm - Post-meal (3 hrs): 6.2
    23.03pm - Bedtime: 6.1

    Meal: Pan-fried pork loin steaks (coconut oil), with a salad of olives, yellow peppers, and raw broccoli, and a side of baked mushrooms and red onion topped with mozzarella. Small amounts of almonds, macadamias, hazelnuts, walnuts and cashews. One coffee with small amount of coconut cream. All other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

    Carbs: 19.2g
    Protein: 76.8g
    Fat: 98.5g
    Cals: 1272 (includes morning 50g of salmon, 50 cals)

    Length of Fast: 23hrs 34mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.0

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    41.7 - Day 2
    41.5 - Day 3
    41.2 - Day 4

    I found that I couldn't finish my planned meal and adjusted it by adding a few more nuts to increase the fats and calories a little. My appetite has got a lot smaller over the last couple of days, and I am finding myself not that interested in food at the moment, and craving fish rather than meat as it is lighter to eat and feels less stodgy. I am eating most of my veggies raw as when I was eating mainly cooked veg I saw larger spikes in blood sugars, and with a limited amount of food to get my nutrition from, I don't want to lose any vitamins or fibre by over processing.
     
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    #14 AllieRainbow, Jun 7, 2018 at 12:53 PM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  15. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I woke up with a reading of 5.8 this morning, and that didn't change a couple of hours later. I have had nothing to eat so far as I felt the results of adding 50g of salmon yesterday to try to stop the rise after waking were inconclusive. The rise I usually get in the morning doesn't seem to have happened today.

    I am amazed at how quickly things are turning around. I will be lowering the blood glucose threshold for eating today, and taking it down to under 5.2, to make sure that the fast is lengthy enough to bring my blood sugar down further over the next few days. It has taken only 17 hours to get into the 5s since yesterday, so it is definitely time to change things. It could be a long day today!!

    Day 5
    - Weight: 116.8 kilos / BMI 38.0 / Waist to Height Ratio: 69%

    5.36am - FBG: 5.8
    8.53am - DP: 5.8
    2.35pm - Under 5.2: 5.0
    3.28pm - Pre-meal: 5.7
    5.29pm - Post-meal (2 hrs): 7.1
    7.03pm - Post-meal (3.5 hrs): 6.5
    12.37am - Bedtime: 5.7

    Meal: Salmon with chilli and garlic, two boiled eggs, salad of peppers and cucumber dressed with olive oil, apple cider vinegar, balsamic vinegar, and parmesan, a little soft cheese, olives, walnuts, pecans, hazelnuts and almonds, and some pork scratchings. One coffee with a little coconut cream. All other fluids water.

    I am adding a couple of twist from my himalayan pink salt shaker to meals to increase my salt intake (added in response to @ringi 's very useful comment on Day 11).

    Carbs: 24.5g
    Protein: 102.3g
    Fat: 151.5g
    Cals: 1862

    Length of Fast: 25hrs 49mins
    Average BG Before Fast: 7.0
    Today's Average BG Reading: 6.0

    Interestingly the estimated HbA1c on the mySugr app has come down by around 0.2 points every day so far:

    41.9 - Day 1 (baseline)
    41.7 - Day 2
    41.5 - Day 3
    41.2 - Day 4
    40.9 - Day 5

    I have upped the calories by about 500 to add more protein and fat, and to make sure I am getting enough calories to fuel the increased exercise I am doing. I had another 3 BP readings at the Doctor's today that were a little high, so I am now on a very low dose of Ramipril to bring that down with a view to stopping when the blood pressure improves.
     
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    #15 AllieRainbow, Jun 8, 2018 at 9:48 AM
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Stunning results well done
     
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  17. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I have had a rise since then - I went round to a friend's house to do Popmaster with Ken Bruce this morning and had a coffee - but he used skimmed milk and I saw a rise to 7.3 by the time I got home :(
     
  18. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Firstly remember to have enough salt, as low salt is a very common problem with low carb and fasting.

    Personly I think it is pointless to break a fast just to stop BG increasing in the morning, as the long term benifits of 23hr fasts are much greater then any harm from BG being a little higher for a few hours. However coffee with cream may be the least harmful option if you do decide to have anything other then water.

    If you start to fast for more the 36hr at a time, you should have brone broth with salt in it, or work out the correct mix of different types of salts.

    Lots of good quality olive oil is a great way to add fat to meals if needed.
     
  19. AllieRainbow

    AllieRainbow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the tips @ringi - I have decided just to fast on water, and keep it to a OMAD fast. I will look at how to add salt to the meal, or think about bovril as a possible drink.

    At the moment I am wondering about how to keep muscle mass loss to a minimum - has anyone got any ideas on how much protein to eat, or how many days to do this type of fast for?
     
    #19 AllieRainbow, Jun 8, 2018 at 1:32 PM
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
  20. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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