Type 3c and eating wrong!

[DemonBat]

Hi, just over 12 months ago I was told I was diabetic. The diabetic nurse tried to tell me I was T2 but when I told her I knew I was T3c, the reply came back “there isn’t such a thing as T3c” !!! Anyway, I am T3c but I just can’t stop eating biscuits, cakes, ice cream, sweets, frozen desserts etc and the only thing I drink is Relentless (energy drink) it’s very rare my glucose levels are below 13 mmol/L
My HbA1c level is high at around 9.7% or 83 mmol/mol.
I’ve not had anyone talk to me about food, as in a diabetic dietitian. The man I see every 3 months about my diabetes, tells me to come on here and look at some of the recipes. Problem is, I live alone and can’t see the point cooking for one, I’m a very fussy eater and I suffer with severe depression. I find it hard to look after myself day to day as it is without cooking. I’ve read that people say eat nuts… I don’t like them. Avocado… Don’t like them …. I just don’t know what to do other than to give up and just carry on as I am!! While I’m typing this, my glucose level is 17.9 mmol/L
Has anyone got any suggestions please?? I’d really appreciate it. Thanks x

 

[MissMuffett]

Hi @DemonBat i know it’s so difficult and to think it’s not worth bothering. It’s so easy to reach for the convenience foods just to stop us feeling hungry. I’m in a similar situation as I’m on my own now and can’t be bothered sometime. My daughter lives on her own and she batch cooks on a Sunday afternoon so she has something to eat when she gets home from work. I’m doing a similar thing now but with low carb. I’ve recently started roasting joints of meat; chicken, pork, lamb, so I can have a portion with salad or roast cauliflower, green beans, broccoli or just on its own. I don’t mind having the same thing for a few nights on the trot. I’ve just found a recipe for tuna melts - can of tuna drained, 1/4 cup of grated cheese, 1 egg. Mix everything together, divide into 4 patties and fry in butter on each side until slighty crisp. Give it a go. Also I’ve got rid of all ‘bad’ food from my fridge and cupboards so I’m not tempted.

 

[EllieM]

Hi @DemonBat can I ask what sort of insulin regime you are on for your T3c? Are you seeing a hospital clinic?

 

[PenguinMum]

Hi I am thinking you were likely diagnosed T3a in a hospital setting due to pancreatic damage. Are you also taking Creon pills with your food? If the former is true and you’re not on Creon you should ask for them. I know about this because I have an incomplete pancreas due to surgery. Since diagnosed diabetic I too was/am treated as T2 and since then I have been in remission for 6 years. I did this by refusing meds or insulin and adopting a very low carb way of eating and spending several months testing before eating and two hours after and recording it all so I could see which meals might be adapted or were complete no nos.
I have to say you really need to grasp this nettle to get your BG lower and avoid complications in the future. Being sweet toothed is hard but with will power you can do it. Maybe do a deal with yourself that you will only allow yourself occasional treats. I know you are using insulin whereas so far I am diet only but sweet stuff is empty nutrition. If you like meat, fish, eggs and cheese then you can really do a satisfying diet while matching with your use of insulin. Take a look at the thread “What have you eaten today (low carb)” on here for some ideas of meals. I am a lazy cook and keep it simple. Sending you best wishes and if you do go lower carb make sure your insulin matches.

 

[HSSS]

Can I ask how the 3c diagnosis was made clear to you (and yes it does exist)? Obviously it wasn’t from the nurse you currently see. Who put you on insulin etc. Didn’t they communicate with your practice?

 

[HSSS]

Hi, just over 12 months ago I was told I was diabetic. The diabetic nurse tried to tell me I was T2 but when I told her I knew I was T3c, the reply came back “there isn’t such a thing as T3c” !!! Anyway, I am T3c but I just can’t stop eating biscuits, cakes, ice cream, sweets, frozen desserts etc and the only thing I drink is Relentless (energy drink) it’s very rare my glucose levels are below 13 mmol/L
My HbA1c level is high at around 9.7% or 83 mmol/mol.
I’ve not had anyone talk to me about food, as in a diabetic dietitian. The man I see every 3 months about my diabetes, tells me to come on here and look at some of the recipes. Problem is, I live alone and can’t see the point cooking for one, I’m a very fussy eater and I suffer with severe depression. I find it hard to look after myself day to day as it is without cooking. I’ve read that people say eat nuts… I don’t like them. Avocado… Don’t like them …. I just don’t know what to do other than to give up and just carry on as I am!! While I’m typing this, my glucose level is 17.9 mmol/L
Has anyone got any suggestions please?? I’d really appreciate it. Thanks x

What else are you eating?

In theory as a 3c it’s about matching your food choices and insulin. Obviously that isn’t happening now as the high levels show - and a diet full of the sweet stuff you list isn’t ideal for anyone whatever their diabetic status. Are you on fixed doses of mixed insulin or do you carb count and have basal bolus doses

Is the depression being addressed? Getting that under control will give you the ability to focus on the rest of your health better. High glucose levels can make depression worse too causing a chicken and egg situation.

 

[PenguinMum]

Correction: I meant T3c in my post and not T3a!

 

[DemonBat]

Hi @DemonBat can I ask what sort of insulin regime you are on for your T3c? Are you seeing a hospital clinic?

What do you mean? Insulin regime? I see someone at the hospital every 3 months. I’m on the Libre 2 so he basically tells me where my sugars are / have been and where they should be.

 

[DemonBat]

Hi @DemonBat i know it’s so difficult and to think it’s not worth bothering. It’s so easy to reach for the convenience foods just to stop us feeling hungry. I’m in a similar situation as I’m on my own now and can’t be bothered sometime. My daughter lives on her own and she batch cooks on a Sunday afternoon so she has something to eat when she gets home from work. I’m doing a similar thing now but with low carb. I’ve recently started roasting joints of meat; chicken, pork, lamb, so I can have a portion with salad or roast cauliflower, green beans, broccoli or just on its own. I don’t mind having the same thing for a few nights on the trot. I’ve just found a recipe for tuna melts - can of tuna drained, 1/4 cup of grated cheese, 1 egg. Mix everything together, divide into 4 patties and fry in butter on each side until slighty crisp. Give it a go. Also I’ve got rid of all ‘bad’ food from my fridge and cupboards so I’m not tempted.

 

[DemonBat]

Hi MissMuffet,
That’s one of my biggest problems. I can’t eat the same thing the next day and if I freeze food, I won’t eat it. My friend ends up with it. So batch cooking is no good to me. I have to really fancy something before I’ll think about cooking, even though I love to cook. Then if the food I fancy is frozen, such as steak, I would have to wait for it to defrost before I cook it and I end up thinking it’s not worth it.

 

[DemonBat]

Hi I am thinking you were likely diagnosed T3a in a hospital setting due to pancreatic damage. Are you also taking Creon pills with your food? If the former is true and you’re not on Creon you should ask for them. I know about this because I have an incomplete pancreas due to surgery. Since diagnosed diabetic I too was/am treated as T2 and since then I have been in remission for 6 years. I did this by refusing meds or insulin and adopting a very low carb way of eating and spending several months testing before eating and two hours after and recording it all so I could see which meals might be adapted or were complete no nos.
I have to say you really need to grasp this nettle to get your BG lower and avoid complications in the future. Being sweet toothed is hard but with will power you can do it. Maybe do a deal with yourself that you will only allow yourself occasional treats. I know you are using insulin whereas so far I am diet only but sweet stuff is empty nutrition. If you like meat, fish, eggs and cheese then you can really do a satisfying diet while matching with your use of insulin. Take a look at the thread “What have you eaten today (low carb)” on here for some ideas of meals. I am a lazy cook and keep it simple. Sending you best wishes and if you do go lower carb make sure your insulin matches.

Hi PenguinMum.
No, I don’t take Creon. They gave it to me the once, for something else … think it was on going stomach pains, where I couldn’t eat and lost nearly 2 stones in weight. That was before I was diagnosed diabetic. I tried to take them but couldn’t. Also, I don’t like the idea of taking a tablet that’s made from the pigs pancreas!

 

[DemonBat]

Can I ask how the 3c diagnosis was made clear to you (and yes it does exist)? Obviously it wasn’t from the nurse you currently see. Who put you on insulin etc. Didn’t they communicate with your practice?

I ended up going to ambulatory at the hospital as my gp said my glucose was high at 24 something or other. They gave me an injection at the time, didn’t tell me what, then a nurse came over to see me when my level had gone down. She told me I was Type 3c which I already knew. She gave me the stuff to test my blood (finger prick) and showed me how to inject insulin. Can’t remember where I got the insulin from at the time, and that was that. As far as communicating with my practice.. I don’t know. At first I had quite a few people phoning me up in regards to being newly diagnosed, then nothing. I was having hypos because the nurse at the hospital put me on a dose that was too high, so I stopped using insulin. Now I feel like I’ve just been dumped to get on with it and although I should, I don’t take diabetes seriously. I suppose if I did, I wouldn’t eat what I do!

 

[HSSS]

I ended up going to ambulatory at the hospital as my gp said my glucose was high at 24 something or other. They gave me an injection at the time, didn’t tell me what, then a nurse came over to see me when my level had gone down. She told me I was Type 3c which I already knew. She gave me the stuff to test my blood (finger prick) and showed me how to inject insulin. Can’t remember where I got the insulin from at the time, and that was that. As far as communicating with my practice.. I don’t know. At first I had quite a few people phoning me up in regards to being newly diagnosed, then nothing. I was having hypos because the nurse at the hospital put me on a dose that was too high, so I stopped using insulin. Now I feel like I’ve just been dumped to get on with it and although I should, I don’t take diabetes seriously. I suppose if I did, I wouldn’t eat what I do!

This explains you are diabetic. It doesn’t explain the 3c part which is about damage to or loss of the pancreas or how you knew already you had 3c Are you in the uk?

 

[EllieM]

What do you mean? Insulin regime? I see someone at the hospital every 3 months. I’m on the Libre 2 so he basically tells me where my sugars are / have been and where they should be.

There are lots of different types of insulin, and its use also depends on which type of diabetes you have.

As a T1 diabetic, who produces no insulin of my own, I am on multiple daily injections and a basal/bolus regime. The basal (slow acting) insulin (1 or two injections a day depending on what basal insulin you use) covers your insulin needs when you aren't eating eg at night. The bolus, or fast acting insulin, is given before meals (and sometimes as a correction dose to bring high blood sugar down). The amount given depends on how much carbohydrate is in the meal, your own personal insulin ratio of insulin to carbs (can vary a lot between people) and on whether you need a correction dose. AS a T1 I do the calculation in my head every time I inject before a meal. When I was younger (I was diagnosed at 8) I learnt to count the carbs in food, though I admit to using help from google occasionally if I don't remember the carb value of fresh food. (The advent of nutritional info on prepared foods has made life much easier for me).

Now if you are still producing some insulin of your own then it may be you are just getting a bit of an insulin top up? Maybe just some long acting insulin to help your pancreas out, or maybe a mixed long and short acting insulin that assumes you are on a fixed amount of carbs for meals? Or maybe you are like @PenguinMum and your pancreas still produces enough insulin to keep you going if you eat low carb? (As you can tell, I am a little confused as to what is going on with your diabetes treatment).

If you are going to the hospital every 3 months they should hopefully explain to you how to adjust your insulin so as to bring your blood sugar down???

 

[DemonBat]

This explains you are diabetic. It doesn’t explain the 3c part which is about damage to or loss of the pancreas or how you knew already you had 3c Are you in the uk?

Yes I’m in the UK and I’ve had damage to my pancreas due to several bouts of pancreatitis. That’s how I worked out I was T3c

 

[DemonBat]

There are lots of different types of insulin, and its use also depends on which type of diabetes you have.

As a T1 diabetic, who produces no insulin of my own, I am on multiple daily injections and a basal/bolus regime. The basal (slow acting) insulin (1 or two injections a day depending on what basal insulin you use) covers your insulin needs when you aren't eating eg at night. The bolus, or fast acting insulin, is given before meals (and sometimes as a correction dose to bring high blood sugar down). The amount given depends on how much carbohydrate is in the meal, your own personal insulin ratio of insulin to carbs (can vary a lot between people) and on whether you need a correction dose. AS a T1 I do the calculation in my head every time I inject before a meal. When I was younger (I was diagnosed at 8) I learnt to count the carbs in food, though I admit to using help from google occasionally if I don't remember the carb value of fresh food. (The advent of nutritional info on prepared foods has made life much easier for me).

Now if you are still producing some insulin of your own then it may be you are just getting a bit of an insulin top up? Maybe just some long acting insulin to help your pancreas out, or maybe a mixed long and short acting insulin that assumes you are on a fixed amount of carbs for meals? Or maybe you are like @PenguinMum and your pancreas still produces enough insulin to keep you going if you eat low carb? (As you can tell, I am a little confused as to what is going on with your diabetes treatment).

If you are going to the hospital every 3 months they should hopefully explain to you how to adjust your insulin so as to bring your blood sugar down???

I’m on Tresiba, which is Balsal and I have 16 units a day and Lyumjev is my rapid acting and I take anywhere between 3-6 units a time, up to 7 times a day. I am producing some insulin but I don’t know how much. I haven’t got a clue about carb counting, I just know I use a lot of Lyumjev because of living on sugary foods and energy drinks.

 

[EllieM]

I’m on Tresiba, which is Balsal and I have 16 units a day and Lyumjev is my rapid acting and I take anywhere between 3-6 units a time, up to 7 times a day. I am producing some insulin but I don’t know how much. I haven’t got a clue about carb counting, I just know I use a lot of Lyumjev because of living on sugary foods and energy drinks.

So it sounds like you are on a standard MDI (multiple daily injection) basal/bolus regime.
You could ask the hospital whether they can send you on a DAFNE course which would teach you how to carb count and adjust your doses. Unless you are having the same amount of carbs every day I think (disclaimer speaking as a T1 not a doctor) you are best off injecting according lyumjev to your carbs but you can discuss this with your team. Energy drinks will have a carb count on them. ( I take it you don't like the zero carb versions?)

 

[DemonBat]

Zero carb versions of what? Energy drinks? If that’s what you mean then they only do one sugar free flavour in Relentless and it’s raspberry and I didn’t like it.
I don’t know how much Lyumjev to take. I just guess it. Like at the moment I’m 22.4 mmol/L so I’ve had 6 units. But that could be too much, as sometimes when I have 6 units, even when my sugar is that high, I’ve been known to have a hypo.

 

[EllieM]

Zero carb versions of what? Energy drinks? If that’s what you mean then they only do one sugar free flavour in Relentless and it’s raspberry and I didn’t like it.
I don’t know how much Lyumjev to take. I just guess it. Like at the moment I’m 22.4 mmol/L so I’ve had 6 units. But that could be too much, as sometimes when I have 6 units, even when my sugar is that high, I’ve been known to have a hypo.

In my opinion your hospital team have neglected you. In my opinion they should have given you a correction ratio eg 1 unit of insulin brings you down by 3mmol/L That would mean that you'd take 5 units to bring you down by 15mmol/L but I stress that people's ratios vary drastically - I'd probably need 10 units to get down from that level and I have no idea what the right dose is for you.

Plus if an energy drink has eg 44g (just looked up powerade sports drink at my local supermarket) you'd need to inject insulin for it when you drank it. I'd need 11 units in the evening for a drink like that or 15 units at lunch time (my carb ratios vary by time of day) but you could need anything from 0 (if your pancreas is producing enough insulin to cope) to much more than me. (Though a typical starting ratio for carb dosing is 1 unit to 10g so that would be 4 units.)

Disclaimer : insulin ratios vary massively from person to person (some people use 20 units a day, others more than 200 so don't use any of my figures above, they are examples of the math reasoning only.

Are you able to keep any sort of record of food intake (particularly carbs if you can work them out, most prepackaged food lists them) and insulin and blood sugars?

Bear in mind that lyumjev 's peak action is between 1 to 3 hours after taking it, so you need to be aware that previous doses of insu;in may not have finished working in your system when you inject a new one...
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/docume...ously-liumjev-epar-product-information_en.pdf

 

[DemonBat]

I’m not really bothering taking insulin now. I have my long acting and sometimes my fast acting but I’m just going to leave it. My Libre 2 sensor finished today and I’m not going to start another one.
You see, the hospital and doctors can’t be bothered so neither can I. At last check, my glucose level was Hi. ‍