Type Two Diabetes Cure Science-Based

JohnEGreen said:

dtb777 We as a race spent thousands upon thousands of years evolving and increasing brain size and then you go and do that with it.

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Spot on - and by the way, anthropologists and evolutionary biologists will tell you have that brain grew in size - when we started eating more meat!

sally and james said:

We were also living a high carb/"healthy wholegrain" vegetarian lifestyle when James was diagnosed at very high HbA1c. Moved over to animal produce, very low carb, lots of butter and cream and HbA1c has been normal for around six years and retinopathy has reversed.
While I can't prove it, I suspect that James' diabetes was caused by a combination of work place stress and my insistance on a veggie diet with lots of whole grains and fruit.
Sally

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I was diagnosed in Oct 15 - having spent the last 3-5 years on a high carb diet supplemented with fish. I am now low carb, eat a lot of meat and eggs and doing very well. Carbs - and stress are the enemy

dtb777 said:

if you stop consuming meat, ideally all animal products, what happens is the body will rapidly start to regain its ability to regular blood sugars.

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Dear dtb777
I'm not sure if you are real or a "Greger bot" but if you are real can you please explain why when mankind ate a very meat based diet (maybe for the past 200,000 years) the incidence of T2 diabetes was very small.
Now that we have become agricultural and eat a far higher grain, fruit, veg based diet the incidence of T2 diabetes has sky -rocketed?
You appear happy to blame this rise on meat consumption... maybe you could apply some logic instead.

With all due respect, that is piffle. Animal sourced food does not cause Type 2 Diabetes. If you have evidence i.e properly sourced RCTs, published and peer reviewed papers on this hypothesis I would be interested to see them. Until then I refuse to made to feel that a food source known to have fed our huge brain and which led man to be the dominant species on this planet started kill us after 2.5 million years in the middle of the twentieth century.
I suggest that you read up on the Expensive Tissue school of thought.

It is hard to have absolutes when this type of thread comes up, but I think you can use history, some common sense and some science. History shows that no human population has ever been shown or documented to just eat Vegan, with the closest to this be Vegetarians; on the other hand the overwhelming history to this day shows societies eating any combination of meat, fish, dairy and vegetables, seasonal fruit and honey (obviously in more modern times processed sweet stuff has come in). I would like to see evidence to the contrary.

I believe everyone should find their health by testing what works without being dogmatic. But, this will not be popular, but it is my true self researched belief - at least 80% of humans can safely digest meat and fish, some struggle with (modern) dairy, I would say 80% of persons cannot maintain healthy biomarkers and or "feeling" of physical well being on a Vegan diet between 5 and 10 years. I say this based on the endless anecdotes on YouTube, especially by some of the most prominent movers and shakers in the movement (from a performance perspective) who have either now gone Keto or Carnivore - some names Tim Sheiff, Drew Morg, Bobby Risto. The performance angle is a confounder, but I have noted that when Vegan athletes / body builders "come out" as Vegan, they are usually already performative on an omnivorous diet and I believe carry this performance for a while (up to several years) on the Vegan protocols, I note that there then is a quiet period where the promotion abates (i.e. times / gains are no longer reported) . A bit of simple research on say the top male and female "Vegan" tennis players show meat use (http://www.borntoworkout.com/serena-williams-workout-routine-diet-plan-fit-body/, https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tenn...-djokovic-doesn-t-eat-meat-he-is-vegetarian-/). And in the non sports world no matter what view is taken, it is a disgrace to influence 1000's, telling them to eat in a certain way, only to be found to lie (Rawvana).

All to often this is the type of story I have read:
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/vegan-blogger-eating-meat-diet-menopause-claim

When persons say the cannot do / stick to LCHF and similar, I tend to see this is (80 / 20 rule) down to the lure of old habit carby things, not usually down to a deficiency or related medical issue - this is my truthful research experience.

I believe Veganism has been given a free pass in the press, in exactly the same manner as high carb low fat; I think the impact on soil, carb / sugar load, bio availability of the nutrients as a minimum should be looked at. The case in Belgium where a couple have been jailed due to neglect via their dietary choices for their child and this Swedish case should good food for thought https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-baby-VEGAN-jailed-nearly-starved-death.html.

How many Type 2's (and I would widen this to the general population (especially past 40 plus) could cope with the Vegan meal examples below, I am not exaggerating when I say the carb / sugar numbers would most likely terminate me within a month - how long would you last? Would you be able to cope with the alternate option?

dtb777 said:

I came here because I have health issues of my own, not Diabetes,

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So you're here advertising Veganism? You're not diabetic! so you can't relate to anyone who is can you? I''m T2 on insulin (Toujeo and Novorapid) damaged pancreas (No cure) I'll eat whatever makes me happy including meat.

dtb777 said:

Hi all,

Nutritionfacts is a great resource for diabetes sufferers. It's a non-profit organisation that offers short videos outlining the science of many health conditions and how they can be treated with diet and lifestyle changes.

Contrary to popular belief, Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by carbohydrate consumption. That's not to say carbohydrates don't trigger the problem once Type 2 Diabetes is developed. Type 2 Diabetes can be cured as it is caused by regular meat consumption. Meat consumption over long periods of time, combined with being overweight, can interfere with the body's ability to regulate glucose (sugar). This then in turn causes an inability to regulate the sugars coming from carbohydrates.

So, if you stop consuming meat, ideally all animal products, what happens is the body will rapidly start to regain its ability to regular blood sugars. I came here because I have health issues of my own, not Diabetes, but I research nutrition and health. I wanted to do it as a good deed in case it helps anybody out. If you stop eating meat, you can gradually start to reintroduce carbohydrate-rich foods. There is plenty of information about this on the internet.

The problem is that many institutions receive funding to produce certain information that may be factually incorrect. Diabetes UK has the conflict of interest of having sponsors that are meat producers, so they feel financially obligated to not tell the truth. Unfortunately the same is true for the pharmaceutical companies (who trained your GP). What we ought to be doing is going with the evidence and the science. Search on YouTube..

Yes, his voice is a little harsh on the ears. But I recommend being patient to get the information so you can learn how to reverse it.

Post edited to remove repeated promotion of a single organisation.

The long term solution is not drugs.

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OK - now I'm going to wade in: There is no one right answer on what diet works best - we all respond differently to different things, but there are one or two universal truths for example - and here's the greatest universal constant - if you can not properly metabolise carbs/sugars/glucose (carbs are just bigger molecules that get broken down into glucose), the glucose will stay in the blood and do untold damage to nerves, blood vessels etc - This is why diabetics have a problem with carbs. In our world there is no such thing as a good carb. I use a meter and I go by the GI on food - the lower the better - meat has no GI. Simple.
Qualifications: Biologist (if you don't have the evidence you have nothing and a video on youtube does not constitute peer reviewed scientific evidence)
Low carb
Diet: mainly eggs, spinach, tomatoes, supplemented with bacon, other forms of pork and beef, water and lemon juice, black coffee
Exercise: walking and competitive strongman

You have to be VERY CAREFUL with what you post on this site. New impressionable people are joining all the time. They will be looking for answers trying to manage/beat/reverse their condition. Misinformation will not help them - it could make their condition worse.

Please don't abuse this site - most of us know from our own practical experience and testing (evidence) that your suggestion is wrong. It's the newbies we have to worry about.

Sean
T2 Oct 15
Winning, mostly.

Mark_Ec said:

So you're here advertising Veganism?..known on the London Squat scene as Vigan Police, alway find them at festivals protesting at the Burger vans (the mind boggles) You're not diabetic! so you can't relate to anyone who is can you? I''m T2 on insulin (Toujeo and Novorapid) damaged pancreas (No cure) I'll eat whatever makes me happy and that will always include burning flesh from rare to well done.

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Well said

@dtb777 Have you personally reversed your T2 diabetes using the diet you speak of?

for anyone who is interested in some of the 'facts' mentioned by the OP. Here are Diabetes UK sponsors:
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/get_involved/corporate/acknowledgements
Lots of drug companies, big retailer and drinks manufacturer but no sign of 'Big Meat'.
Also as mentioned above Michael Gregor of the Nutrition Facts podcasts is a doctor who is vegan with the belief that it is morally wrong to eat animals and their products. That's fine but it is a clear bias (see Wikki entry):
Retired physician Harriet A. Hall, who is known as a skeptic in the medical community,[23][24][25] has written that, while it is well-accepted that it is more healthy to eat a plant-based diet than a typical Western diet, Greger often overstates the known benefits of such a diet as well as the harm caused by eating animal products (for example, in a talk, he claimed that a single meal rich in animal products can "cripple" one's arteries), and he sometimes does not discuss evidence that contradicts his strong claims.[19]
We all have our biases and our reason is slave to our own passions for bacon or veganism but your blood glucose metre won't lie.

Does the OP have any examples of people with Type 2 Diabetes and who follow the vegan ethos having reversed or put into remission their condition? Real people, that is.

Tophat1900 said:

I'll stick with my meat based diet.... you can eat whatever you like, but I am NOT reintroducing carb rich foods. Your so called facts are rubbish and amount to nothing more.

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You nailed it. Thank you. Well said. A vegan's diet consists of sky-high carbohydrates, which a diabetic can't process. My analogy: If you're allergic to nuts, you're told not to eat nuts. If you can't process carbohydrates, then avoid them.

dtb777 said:

Hi all,

Nutritionfacts is a great resource for diabetes sufferers. It's a non-profit organisation that offers short videos outlining the science of many health conditions and how they can be treated with diet and lifestyle changes.

Contrary to popular belief, Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by carbohydrate consumption. That's not to say carbohydrates don't trigger the problem once Type 2 Diabetes is developed. Type 2 Diabetes can be cured as it is caused by regular meat consumption. Meat consumption over long periods of time, combined with being overweight, can interfere with the body's ability to regulate glucose (sugar). This then in turn causes an inability to regulate the sugars coming from carbohydrates.

So, if you stop consuming meat, ideally all animal products, what happens is the body will rapidly start to regain its ability to regular blood sugars. I came here because I have health issues of my own, not Diabetes, but I research nutrition and health. I wanted to do it as a good deed in case it helps anybody out. If you stop eating meat, you can gradually start to reintroduce carbohydrate-rich foods. There is plenty of information about this on the internet.

The problem is that many institutions receive funding to produce certain information that may be factually incorrect. Diabetes UK has the conflict of interest of having sponsors that are meat producers, so they feel financially obligated to not tell the truth. Unfortunately the same is true for the pharmaceutical companies (who trained your GP). What we ought to be doing is going with the evidence and the science. Search on YouTube..

Yes, his voice is a little harsh on the ears. But I recommend being patient to get the information so you can learn how to reverse it.

Post edited to remove repeated promotion of a single organisation.

The long term solution is not drugs.

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Just had a random thought - weren't we hunter gatherers in the dim distant past. So sometimes plant based - sometimes meat based - sometimes a mix of both and without modern grains.and fruit and actually quite low in carbs. Just a thought.- I could be completely wrong.

Flora123 said:

Hilarious! I was vegetarian and slim when diagnosed on a whole food plant based diet. However since changing back to meat and green veg rather than pulses and root veg I have reduced my BG back to non DX levels in three months and maintained it over a year.

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Same here. Before I was diagnosed, I mostly ate vegetables, and salads and only had meat once a week. Using a glucometer, I realised straight away that diet causes my blood sugars to become sky high. I now include meat with every meal in order to maintain stable blood sugars.

enb54 said:

I am hoping that even if you need drugs, you will at least get a blood glucose meter to test yourself for the effects of various foods and drink. Please do not underestimate the really nasty end results of being reluctant to do so...

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Hi
I have got a meter thanks prescribed by my GP.
I do test regularly
Thanks

Now that the truth about carbohydrate is finally coming out, what are the more aggressive manufacturers of those foods going to do? They're going to go on the attack and promote vegetarian and vegan diets and they're going to try to make meat eaters look bad. The vegetarians and vegans that I know eat a higher carb diet because those foods are generally on their allowed list. I am not criticising their choice at all, and I'm not saying that diabetes can't be managed with a vegan diet , I'm just pointing out that non-meat foods are often high carb foods. I would predict that the big carb industries will now ramp up attacks on the meat industry, sponsor research in those areas and promote vegetarian/vegan diets. (By the way, I just googled to see who owns Quorn - it has just been bought by a processed food company that makes carbohydrate snack foods)

With apologies to my friends who are vegans - please read past the opening views and see some real evidence about 'nutritionfacts' claims.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/

Just how much 'science' do we need? Reducing carbs has reduced my HbA1c to non diabetic levels. Isn't that scientific enough?

Hi Everyone.

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