Type 1 Vegan diet changed my insulin needs? Weird!

ert

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Firstly, and in case you missed it, I attached a set of success and in-progress stories to an earlier post. Within those pages are a host of both insulin and non-insulin-dependent diabetics, improving their numbers on large amounts of healthy carbs.

Secondly, I don't really understand your dismissal of the data from those with type I. Surely, the best chance of understanding he interaction between carb intake and insulin would be gained via studying those whose lives literally depend on getting that equation right. So when someone presents their experience that increasing carbs leads to a lessening of insulin needs, or increased sensitivity with the same amount of insulin, I don't understand why that isn't sparking curiosity. And in a community that rightfully places necessary importance on anecdotes, why are anecdotes that present contrary information so easily dismissed?
I see you have posted 18 success stories for vegan's with type 1. That's great.
Type 1 Grit on Dr Bernstein has 45,000 + success stories.
Diabetes.co.uk has even more success stories for LCHF.
It's great as a type 1 you can have success on many different diets if you follow your blood sugars as on insulin you get to choose what you eat.
 

Beating-My-Betes

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I am very insulin sensitive and only need a very low dose of basal as I follow Bernstein. For me humous and lentils spike my blood sugars as they are high in carbohydrates, so as much as I love them avoid them.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but my idea of insulin sensitivity is being able to deal with carbs without issues. Of course, there's a spike (it's impossible to eat carbs without one). The issue is whether you buy into the (I believe) false premise that any sugar...ever, in the blood, is a bad thing.
 
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ert

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Perhaps I'm wrong, but my idea of insulin sensitivity is being able to deal with carbs without issues. Of course, there's a spike (it's impossible to eat carbs without one). The issue is whether you buy into the (I believe) false premise that any sugar...ever, in the blood, is a bad thing.
Bernstein lists carbs that won't spike your blood sugars like green leafy vegetables. That's all I eat. No more than 30 grams of these carbohydrates a day. For me, I don't want to end up with complications of diabetes by spiking my blood sugars by eating high carbohydrates. The Bernstein success for type 1's is that they reduce the amount of insulin they need and have flatter blood sugars. An average type 1 without insulin resistance needs roughly about 30 to 50% of their weight in insulin units to eat normally. On Berstein, I need about 15% of my weight in insulin units.

That's not to say others don't manage their blood sugars well on other diets and lifestyle choices and beliefs. It's all about testing, testing and testing and seeing what works for you. @Hannah Robyn well done on your success.
 
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ziggy_w

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Firstly, and in case you missed it, I attached a set of success and in-progress stories to an earlier post. Within those pages are a host of both insulin and non-insulin-dependent diabetics, improving their numbers on large amounts of healthy carbs.

Secondly, I don't really understand your dismissal of the data from those with type I. Surely, the best chance of understanding he interaction between carb intake and insulin would be gained via studying those whose lives literally depend on getting that equation right. So when someone presents their experience that increasing carbs leads to a lessening of insulin needs, or increased sensitivity with the same amount of insulin, I don't understand why that isn't sparking curiosity. And in a community that rightfully places necessary importance on anecdotes, why are anecdotes that present contrary information so easily dismissed?

Hi @Beating-My-Betes,

For some people, high carb low fat (HCLF) may well work. My guess would be that it is those who are naturally insulin-sensitive, which would include many T1s. My husband, for example is slim and non-diabetic, eats lots of sugar and other carbs and has no problems.

However, by and large, most T2s seem to have a genetic make-up that doesn't deal well with carbs (though there maybe exceptions) and for us low-carb seems a good way of avoiding complications. If high carb works for you and your blood sugar levels, the more power to you.

As for spikes (and this is not just an opionion in the low carb community) -- there seems to be some evidence that any spike over 140 mg/dl (or 7.8 mmol) is damaging to our bodies. Jenny Ruhl has compiled some scientific studies on her website that seem to support this. Here is a link -- in case you are interested https://www.bloodsugar101.com/organ-damage-and-blood-sugar-level

@Hannah Robyn -- Congrats on your brilliant results.
 
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Brunneria

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Everyone, this is my last call to order before I start deleting multiple posts.

This is not a thread to discuss the benefits of low carb for T2s. You can create separate threads to discuss that.

This thread was started by a T1 talking about how their insulin needs have reduced on a vegan unprocessed diet.

There will be no further warnings that off topic posts will be deleted.
 
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Beating-My-Betes

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I see you have posted 18 success stories for vegan's with type 1. That's great.

It is great. I'm expecting that number to keep increasing, os if you have any interest perhaps keep an eye on those site.

Type 1 Grit on Dr Bernstein has 45,000 + success stories. Diabetes.co.uk has even more success stories for LCHF.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't surprised that avoiding sugar will lead to less circulating sugar in the blood. That isn't the point in contention. The issue I'm battling against is that the demonisation of carbs, is based on a much shoddier foundation than the total demonisation of fat and animal products by the vegan/plant-based movement. My own position on these issues is clearly outside of the purview of this thread, and I won't take it off-topic.

Suffice to say that your quoted numbers are nothing I'd find to be unexpected.

Also (I've said this before, but it bears repeating), my own threshold/tolerance for the acceptance of new thought is 1 i.e I only need see one example of someone getting results contrary to my previously-held beliefs for me to either start to re-examine said beliefs or turn them on their head, wholesale...in one fell swoop. Think of how until Roger Bannister cracked the 4-minute mile, it was deemed impossible. Once he'd done it, not only could nobody hold onto the idea of impossibility, it led to many more people being able to repeat

It's great as a type 1 you can have success on many different diets if you follow your blood sugars as on insulin you get to choose what you eat.

For clarities sake, I'm type II...I think. As for type I diabetics being able to choose what they eat? Again, you seem to be missing the point: If we are to believe that carbs in any form are bad for us and will (according to many) eventually lead almost everyone to either insulin resistance and eventual diabetes, then why are we seeing people doubling and tripling (Some at nearly 500g of carbs a day) improving their insulin sensitivity? You could argue it away as just anomaly, or just maybe we should start to consider that perhaps what we think we know is actually not what is happening.

Bottom line, there are an ever-increasing number of cases of those that are increasing their insulin sensitivity by increasing carbs. I'd like to think that we would welcome Hannah, congratulate her and just be happy that she is finding her way to health improvements :)

post edited by moderator to remove off topic content.
 
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ert

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It is great. I'm expecting that number to keep increasing, os if you have any interest perhaps keep an eye on those site.

Bottom line, there are an ever-increasing number of cases of those that are increasing their insulin sensitivity by increasing carbs. I'd like to think that we would welcome Hannah, congratulate her and just be happy that she is finding her way to health improvements :)

post edited by moderator to remove off topic content.

The bottom line is 18 cases isn't an ever-increasing number compared to LCHF even though I would congratulate them on their individual successes. However, more sleep, more exercise, reducing stress and losing a few pounds in weight also increase insulin sensitivity so their success could be due to other variables.

Medically that is because reducing your carb intake helps increase insulin sensitivity. That’s because high-carb diets tend to lead to spikes in blood sugar, which put more pressure on the pancreas to remove sugar from the blood.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3608918/
 
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Beating-My-Betes

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Hi @Beating-My-Betes,

For some people, high carb low fat (HCLF) may well work. My guess would be that it is those who are naturally insulin-sensitive, which would include many T1s. My husband, for example is slim and non-diabetic, eats lots of sugar and other carbs and has no problems.

However, by and large, most T2s seem to have a genetic make-up that doesn't deal well with carbs (though there maybe exceptions) and for us low-carb seems a good way of avoiding complications. If high carb works for you and your blood sugar levels, the more power to you.

As for spikes (and this is not just an opionion in the low carb community) -- there seems to be some evidence that any spike over 140 mg/dl (or 7.8 mmol) is damaging to our bodies. Jenny Ruhl has compiled some scientific studies on her website that seem to support this. Here is a link -- in case you are interested https://www.bloodsugar101.com/organ-damage-and-blood-sugar-level

@Hannah Robyn -- Congrats on your brilliant results.


There's no way I can separate my answers regarding insulin sensitivity from off-topic talk, so I'll send my answer via 'pm'. Don't worry, you are under no obligation to respond.

I have given your post a 'winner' award, however. Firstly, for saluting/addressing me (I did respond, in kind) and secondly for congratulating Hannah.
 
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Hannah Robyn

Member
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wow this derailed

this has been incredibly disappointing. It was not my intention to try to convert people to high carb vegan, or to demonise meat, or to prove anything incredible. i'm just sharing my story

i am nowhere near well informed enough to hold my own in a discussion like this!
 

Goonergal

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Further posts have been deleted for derailing the thread.

Off topic posts will continue to be deleted and may incur further sanctions.
 

Richard'63

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wow this derailed

this has been incredibly disappointing. It was not my intention to try to convert people to high carb vegan, or to demonise meat, or to prove anything incredible. i'm just sharing my story

i am nowhere near well informed enough to hold my own in a discussion like this!

I wouldn't worry about it as you did none of those things, except sharing your story.


(Mod edit)
 

Brunneria

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wow this derailed

this has been incredibly disappointing. It was not my intention to try to convert people to high carb vegan, or to demonise meat, or to prove anything incredible. i'm just sharing my story

i am nowhere near well informed enough to hold my own in a discussion like this!

Please don't worry. Your experience is a very valid one, and it definitely deserves its own thread and discussion.
Please don't be put off from posting.
 

lucylocket61

Expert
Messages
6,435
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Everyone, this is my last call to order before I start deleting multiple posts.

This is not a thread to discuss the benefits of low carb for T2s. You can create separate threads to discuss that.

This thread was started by a T1 talking about how their insulin needs have reduced on a vegan unprocessed diet.

There will be no further warnings that off topic posts will be deleted.
I apologise. I had no idea Hannah is a type 1. There is nothing on her information to indicate this.