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Very informative read

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by bulkbiker, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    • Informative Informative x 4
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  2. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It is a religion...masqueraded as evidence based science.
     
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    #2 kokhongw, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:59 PM
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  3. Spl@

    Spl@ Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    It's scary just how the people who are supposed to protect our health are pushing views totally opposite.

    At the hotel I see numerous folks just having something light.

    Croissants and jam. Toast and marmalade. Cereals.

    All look twice at my sausage eggs and bacon. I can almost feel the eye roll.

    It is not going to change easily.
     
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  4. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    Personally sleaking, I find any dietary advice / opinion that strongly advocates one approach and equally strongly cricises any / all others - be it vegan, LCHF, the eatwell plate or any other iteration between them - to be worthy of massive scepticim and criticism - the old sayings about babies and bathwater come to mind
    I also find the subtext implcation that anyone who does not adhere to the particular dogma being spouted and instead chooses to incorporate anything form a ‘competing’ dogma is either being brainwashed or stupid, to be narrow minded and insulting
    For clarification of what I choose and why
    High low or medium carb? - low as it suits my sugars best
    High, low or medium fibre? - high as above
    High, medium or low plant based foods? - high - I dont like most meats and am dairy intolerant so have to use plant based cheese / milk / cream alternatives
    Vegan yes / no? - no - I eat free range eggs and non farmed fish, I will also very occasionally cook organic bacon or chicken. I dont think full on vegan would be particularly healthy for me
    Carnivore yes /no? - yes, occasionally, but I do have ethical concerns about the conditions in which much meat is ‘grown’ & also don't think full on carnivore diet would be paricularly healthy.
     
  5. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    When I saw that the WFPB 'evidence based' protocol was derived from ADVENT 2 study, and that Boston and Harvard are slap bang in the middle of whole grain territory and is also where the main centre for WFPB research is located, then I already made the connection to religion as being the main force behind the movement. Then I was looking at the photos from a WFPB seminar where the sponsors lined up for a group photocall - the same photo that the Board of Seventh Day Adventisits use in their annual report,,,,,, End of doubt! That photo has been redacted since from the 2016 seminar pics.
     
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    #5 Oldvatr, Nov 28, 2018 at 2:32 PM
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  6. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  7. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Gary Fetke (orthopedic surgeion who is the spouse in the piece) is a pioneer but got punnished in Australia for daring to reverse his type 2 orthopaedic patients' diabetes via LCHF.
    There is a quite a lot of interviews on YouTube on the topic of this blog.
    To be balanced, it was found that 7th Day Adventists lived longer and healthier than other gorups but this in itself did not prove that avoiding dairy and meat was the cause. The con founders were aovidance of alcohol and their religiousity (strong community ethic) and avoidance of tobacco. Other religious groups in the US who do allow meat achieved similar results.
    If we think about what we have in common with the plant based advocates it is quite a lotas Zoe Harcombe (a reformed vegetarian) points out she'd largely agree with Michael Pollan's guidance to 'Eat (real) food, mainly plants, not too much' by simply substituting in 'mainly meat'. Both camps are avoiding processed foods and sugar and I believe that's where the Public Health focus should be and not in the weeds of vegan v. keto.
     
  8. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    We may noticed that often it is not the endocrinologist or dietitians who embrace low carb/ketogenic/fasting...but rather those would had to face and deal with the grim failures of the recommended low fat/low calories, exercise more lifestyle intervention.

    Dr Jason Fung who spent years putting patients after patients on dialysis, Dr Gary Fetke who had to amputate limbs after limbs, Dr Aseem Malhotra, Dr Unwin, Dr Bernstein...it is their despair and recognition of the failure of current treatment protocol that gave them the courage to take a different path.
     
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  9. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If you do a wikki on this long life, you will see that it only the ADVENT and ADVENT2 atudies that support this extra 10 years claim. The study was limited to church members only, and was performed entirely by students at the Loma Linda University. They claim that the study was not funded by the church, but it is clear that the University most certainly is. These studies have been shown to be poorly executed and open to possible bias since the outcome was determined before the work began, and there was no independant scrutiny or peer review. The data collection comprised of a bus touring towns for a year stopping people randomly in the street and giving them a lifestyle questionaire.

    There is another study - the Adventist Mortality study that was started in 1958 and this is actually their claim that it is the lifestyle overall that leads to longer life, but it did not differentiiate between the various factors. i,.e lung cancer was lower, but this was probably a factor from not smoking. etc. Executed by the same uni that did the follow up studies, so again the question of bias crops up again. I have reviewed the two Advent studies, and found them to be weak, but I have not seen the Mortality study so cannot comment.

    None of the studies are held in a recognised archive repository such as Pub Med, and the Loma Linda library only holds reprints dated 2008 onwards, so not sure why there are no copies of original findings,
    Edit to add ADVENT2, which is in pubmed
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191896/

    Edit to add a counter argument:
    https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/vegan.html
     
    #9 Oldvatr, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:42 PM
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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