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Very Tired On Low Carb Breakfast

Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by Razper, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Razper

    Razper Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    Hello,
    I tried to go on a no carb breakfast to see if it will make me feel okay with my RH. The thing is - blood sugar appears to be normal, but I feel like I'm actually in a hypo - weak, not focused, tired and all that stuff. My mind is definetly not sharp, as when I eat normal breakfast with toasts and carbs.

    I eat 2 eggs with cheese and then some bacon. And I'm very tired. If I eat carbs though, I get back to normal state even though my blood sugar is normal (5.2 mmol/l). Why is that happenning?
     
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  2. catinahat

    catinahat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  3. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi :)

    As @catinahat suggests, it may be simply because your body is not yet used to steady blood glucose release, and thinks that a jolt of sugar in the morning is 'normal'. The transition to Low Carb is a strange experience for some of us, and one that we just need to go through - either in one short sharp burst, or by stepping our carbs down more gradually over a few days.

    How long have you been having these low carb breakfasts?

    I don't know how old you are, or your size and weight, but is 2 eggs and some bacon enough? Considering that you are used to carbs in the morning, with RH to follow, perhaps if you ate more protein it would last you til lunch with good steady energy release. I would have a large cup of coffee with that, with cream in the coffee, and maybe a second cup at around 11am, and see what happens.

    Another alternative (as a transition) would be to have a small amount of carbs WITH your eggs and bacon. Say, 2 eggs, 3 rashers of bacon with cheese, AND a single slice of wholemeal buttered toast. Or a couple of rye crispbreads.

    Also, are you eating low carb the rest of the time? My experience of RH was that what I had to eat the day before plays a huge part in the way my body functions the whole of the next day. A carby evening meal will garuantee that my morning is wobbly, no matter how low carb I am at breakfast.
     
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  4. type1gabs

    type1gabs Type 1 · Member

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    Hi

    I used to be exactly the same, i had a few years of burnout and literally ate what i wanted, didnt focus on low carb until a year ago i went low carb and got my life in control.

    Id feel really shaky and low, only to test and see i was 6 making me apprehensive to keep in proper range to make me feel ok (i drive for a living). It is because your body is used to having high sugar in your blood and so when you are in proper range, your body automatically thinks yoire having a hypo! Over time ypir body adjusts and adapts in the meantime i drank tea to keep my energy levels up as i was tired too, also in drastic cases had sugar free red bull (rarely!). I also used to have wheat pumpseed crispbreads from lidl which where 12g carb per slice, but full of protein and fibre so kept me full and energy levels up

    Good luck! It gets easier over time and have so much energy before you know it!
     
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  5. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Have you had any more tests or appointments since your last eOGTT?
    The change in diet will take time, how long is how your body adapts to low carb, it's taken years to build up. Do persevere, it will be worth it. Eating big meals at this stage can still trigger insulin that you don't need. It is how your hormones react to the messages you get from eating, digestion, and the amount of protein and fats that slow digestion and the lower amount of carbs still in your food.
    Have you tried fasting since your last post?
    If I remember, you get similar symptoms if you don't eat.
    Have you been advised during this period to eat small meals every three hours to offset the symptoms?
    I know it's frustrating, but it is worth it, eating a bite or two, low carb every couple of hours, will help with the symptoms and will not trigger hypers, no hypers, no hypos!

    Do be patient and eat to your meter.

    Best wishes
     
  6. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Try having a small amount of carbs, not just protein and fat.
     
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  7. Razper

    Razper Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    Hello, tahnks for the answers. I tried low carb breakfast for a couple of days, not a long time. Other than that I manage not to have hypo by eating frequently every 2-3 hours. My job and lifestyle don't let me to be super careful about my diet, so most of the time I eat meat with potatoes every now and then.

    20 minutes ago I went home and I was feeling tired, but I was not shaky or angry... just kind of sleepy (my last sugary drink was 1 hour before that). I measured 3.8 mmol/l. What do you consider is a dangerous hypo? The people with RH what was your "normal" blood sugar low? The fact is I'm not diabetic and I don't use medications. I kind of freak out when I see 3.8mmol/l because I really did not had any noticeable symptoms. Can I faint and die, since I live alone with no one at home?

    I haven't taken new OGGT, I'm waiting for my new endocrinologyst to come to work since he's on vacation, but my last drink dropped the sugar below the norm.

    Actually I don't mind eating every 2-3 hours, many people do it... but I hate I gained maybe at least 10 pounds and I don't know how to cut the calories so I lose weight and still manage the blood sugar level.

    My last sugary drink today I took as a means to avoid eating a sandwich. It raised my blood sugar, but seems like it crashed really quickly and I got to 3.8 quite fast. Is it possible the sugar to continue to drop since I'm not diabetic, or my liver will correct it by releasing sugars?
     
    #7 Razper, Aug 8, 2018 at 8:43 PM
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  8. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Don’t worry.
    3.8 isn’t a dangerous hypo.
    You would have to drop a lot lower than that to experience any risk.

    Type 1 diabetics are told to treat a bg reading of 4 or below because they usually have injected insulin working which could be driving the blood glucose down further.

    Non diabetics routinely experience blood glucose in the 3s with no ill effect at all.

    I am going to sound like a stuck record here, but if you routinely reach for sugary drinks and carby snacks throughout the day to keep topping up your blood glucose, then all you will achieve is a high/low/high/low rollercoaster that will make you feel dreadful.

    Get off the rollercoaster by eating good, sustaining meals and snacks based on protein, heathy fats, above ground veg and minimal carbs.
     
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  9. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I concur with @Brunneria, the reason you are struggling is because of the rollercoaster ride your blood glucose levels are most of the day, if you continue to eat or drink high carb, starchy carbs and sugary drinks which are really bad for your health.
    With RH, those types of food are not healthy or doing you any good whatsoever.
    In my experience, you have to discover which foods trigger the insulin overshoot.
    It is not the blood glucose levels that are the problem, it is the high levels of insulin circulating, insulin resistance and the overshoot of insulin whenever you eat the carbs that is the trigger.
    I was like you, I didn't have the knowledge or reasoning to know why I was having hypos, I didn't know what a hypo was, or how to deal with one.
    Only by testing, and having the experience of being non diabetic, but had hypos because of so called healthy diet, which included carbs, and I found out by doing a lot of research and help from this forum, that it dawned on me that if I avoided those carbs, my health improved, I lost weight, the symptoms went, the improvement in my life was remarkable, simply by avoiding the likes of potatoes, rice, bread, pastries, sugary drinks, beer, pastas, beans, in fact anything that included carbs.
    My specialist endocrinologist told me, that he considered anything below 3.5 was a hypo, my hypo symptoms start around 3.3, I have had readings of 2.2 and lo on my monitor. As your diet changes, your hypo awareness will be better, the longer you stay in normal levels for us RH ers is between 3.5 & 6.0. The symptoms decrease.
    How do you deal with a hypo is important.?
    If you feel a hypo coming on, you have to act, and unfortunately, we are not like T1s, the best way to treat a hypo is to have a small amount of carbs, say a plain biscuit or two, with a cuppa, very little full fat milk, or no milk, because I have lactose intolerance, then test after fifteen minutes, if you nudge your blood glucose levels back into normal levels, you should eat a small meal, very low carb, to ensure you don't get what is called, the rebound effect of high blood glucose levels, which would trigger more insulin, which you need to avoid.
    The rebound effect is high blood levels, then low levels, high levels, low levels.
    This is because of your insulin response initially is poor, then your pancreas overshoots and delivers too much.
    The high blood glucose causes symptoms, the low blood glucose cos of the insulin causes symptoms. So you need to stop the rebound, rollercoaster, yo yo glucose levels.
    We would always advise, stop the trigger, no overshoot.
    In other words, no hyper, no hypo.
    The last time I had a hypo was my last eOGTT, about four years ago.
    I don't eat carbs, I avoid those foods that trigger the insulin response, a I avoid going out of normal blood glucose levels, I don't go hypo, because I don't go hyper!

    Best wishes
     
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  10. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I have just missed your first question.
    I work, my job is very busy and of course, I miss meals and managing my food can be dependent on what is happening that day. I travel because of my job, I work long and at different times during the day, I stay in hotels, I think that I have sorted my food requirements.
    I always have a packet of meat prepared beforehand, in my bag, I also take water in case of motorway problems. I plan my needs for my working day.
    Depending on your tastes, there is plenty of low carb food that you can buy or take with you. A boxed salad with meat is absolutely brilliant and so easy to prepare.
    I would take time to read our forum and the low carb forum, for ideas and recipes.
    Cooking from scratch, curries without rice, soups, meat dishes, then you can freeze.

    I know that I have gone low, and conked out during my hypo hell years. I have woke up, maybe because my liver kicked in, I did ask my endocrinologist, but he wasn't sure.
    By eating every three hours, very low carb, your body will adjust and your symptoms will decrease, you will lose weight, your health will be much better and your obvious anxiety, will go away, as you know the control now is so important.

    Best wishes
     
  11. Kaz261

    Kaz261 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to take your lifestyle into consideration too. In the early days after my RH diagnosis, I got some fantastic advice from the good people on this forum and reduced my carbs. In my case, I couldn’t get through the “carb flu” period, with days where I was so tired and could barely put one foot in front of the other. I decided to reintroduce some carefully selected carbs and test my bs LOTS.

    For me, a very low carb breakfast leaves me tired all morning. On a normal day, I walk the kids to school within 40 mins of eating breakfast and therefore a small amount of carbs works well for me. My perfect breakfast is full fat Greek yogurt with a small amount of no added sugar muesli (no dried fruit), half a dozen each of raspberries and blueberries, almonds and a sprinkle of cinnamon, washed down with my one and only white coffee of the day. The mix of fat, carbs and protein gives my blood sugar enough of a boost for my morning walk, but doesn’t spike me high enough to result in a hypo later. I eat breakfast around 8am and most days this keeps me going until lunch at 1pm.

    I eat 3 main meals a day, with the occasional snack in between (just a small bite of something if required). All main meals include a very small amount of carbs and as long as I don’t get greedy , I am virtually symptom free.

    Be gentle on yourself, reduce your carbs slowly and test your blood sugar lots to see what works for you and the lifestyle you lead.

    Good luck.
     
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  12. Razper

    Razper Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    Thank you for the answers, guys.

    I don't know if I get the symptoms when I see reading of 3.8 mmol/l, or I truly have them.

    My problem is that from fear of not going hypo, at some point I think that I eat a lot more carbs than needed. I think my main problem are the potatoes. Yesterday I had mashed potatoes with some meat AND bread, and maybe the quantity made me go to 3.8 mmol/l two hours later.

    One question I got - if I'm let's say 3.8-3.9 mmol, will my blood sugar go up by itself without me eating nothing?

    Sometimes I believe my mistake is that when I see a bit low sugar, I eat a lot more carbs than needed. Potatoes are deffinately a trigger for me. Most mornings I eat 2 to 3 thin slices of bread with salami, cheese and haven't seen my blood sugar lower than 4.2 - 4.1.

    Do you think if I reduce portions to as little as possible (let's say no more than 15-20 grams of carbs per meal with more protein), I will avoid the lower readings? My condition is not severe like yours above, and I believe with some modification I could eat pretty much normally.
     
  13. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Potatoes are my worst enemy!
    Your question about just below 4mmols is answered by using a food diary to see what happens. Being just below 'normal' should be okay and not be treated. My endocrinologist says that my threshold is around 3.6 (ish) my symptoms start about 3.7. But I haven't had a hypo in such a long time!
    I would definitely not consider around 4mmols a hypo, so I would not go overboard on the carbs to boost your blood glucose levels.
    I learned a valuable lesson with all my eOGTT tests, as a RH er, you can't treat a hypo as a T2, T1 would, if you go above normal levels because of treating with too many carbs, a rebound effect will happen. You will trigger a hyper, you will then trigger the insulin overshoot, the rollercoaster ride of blood glucose levels which causes the symptoms. I found that if you nudge your blood glucose levels up into normal levels and keep them there, eating a very low carb meal shortly afterwards would help more.
    One single rich tea biscuit will nudge your blood glucose levels only enough to do this!
    Portion size and if you are not aware, fasting is good for you.
    Portion size because you are not creating too much glucose, then of course not too much insulin.
    Fasting because, the levels of glucose and insulin will drop naturally. No excess insulin!
    Also gentle exercise after every meal, fifteen minutes after fifteen minutes of the meal, this is great if you are trying to gain control of your blood sugar.
    Be gentle to yourself, you must be feeling the benefits of eating low carb, this is for life, I still have to adjust my dietary needs depending on what my readings are.
    Don't panic around low normal levels.
    Best wishes
     
  14. KarenTh

    KarenTh Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    The only food I can eat for breakfast is oats and that’s what my endo recommended. Just protein doesn’t do it for me. This has made a massive difference to me as my day would start with very low BS but these changes take time to take effect so be patient and don’t exert yourself too soon after eating breakfast. After a while I hope you will start to level out. I also eat good quality oat cakes during the day and keep a supply in my bedside table for any overnight issues.
     
  15. KarenTh

    KarenTh Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    You can feel like you are having a hypo but have normal BS levels. I still can’t work out why that could be the case but know other people who have the same problems.
     
  16. KarenTh

    KarenTh Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    Mashed potatoes are the worst thing for me! Over time you will hopefully work out your safe daily carb level. It could be 25g a day or maybe 50g. It’s very individual. I can’t tolerate caffeine at all but others can. After 4 months of strict carb and sugar intake plus zero alcohol I can now walk my dogs! An overeactive pancreas that often comes with RH will take some time to calm down. Some say up to a year. When it does you can hopefully add more to your diet.
     
  17. Razper

    Razper Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    I actually learned to manage pretty good the blood sugar, I don't go overboard with carbs or portions in general and lost 7-8 pounds I know it's not a lot but I feel good.

    Are your blood sugar meters correct? I have Accu Check performa and got a reading of 3.3 mmol/l after which I almost went into panic mode since I didn't have symptoms beside really really mild shakes and tiredness. I took three more readings showing 4.2, 3.8 and 3.9 so averageI should be around 4 maybe, not 3.3. Are your meters correct?
     
  18. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Those differences sound like the sort of variance I get using a single accuchek mobile meter, same free flowing pin prick, one after another. Except mine are a bit higher in 5’s and 6’s mostly. They only have to be 15% accurate in certain ranges a certain percentage of the time. So no not desperately accurate but it is what it is and it’s the best we’ve got.
     
  19. KarenTh

    KarenTh Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    Mashed potatoes are the worst thing to eat with RH. The only “potatoes” I can eat are new and sweet.

    My endocrinologist advised plain porridge for breakfast which is my every day safety food now. I tried eggs etc but no energy. Snacks include sweet peppers and hummus, peanut butter and an apple, cottage cheese and coleslaw. No bread apart from Ezekiel 4:9. NO sugary drinks at all, decaf coffee, eat before and after exercise. No rice, pasta. It can be done!
     
  20. Razper

    Razper Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

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    Well seems like my condition is getting worse. I ate like an hour and a half ago 2 and a half meatballs with 2 thin slices dark bread with little potatoes.
    After hour and a half I was at 3.0 mmol/l and started feeling really terrible.
    I drank 330ml of diet coke, and the night beffore i drank beers i don't know if that has any effect, but 3.0 is really low an hour and a half after eating. I truly don't know what to do and feel scared that next time I might pass out.
     
    #20 Razper, May 11, 2019 at 12:58 PM
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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