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Vitamin D levels changed in US

Cool. I've been taking hi dose Vit. D for a while now - glad to see that the austhorities are realising how woefully short of the mark previous recommendations were.
 
How high a dose do you take? I have been considering taking it but am not certain . I have quite a high calcium in my blood and have read that taking high vit D can cause problems
CAROL.
 
Carol.

The FSA offers this advice regarding Vit D. I have however read that much higher doses can be beneficial. Personally if I am not shown to be deficient in something.......I don't need any more of it ! Have a read for yourself.

What happens if I take too much?
Taking high doses of vitamin D for long periods of time could weaken your bones.

What is FSA advice?
Most people should be able to get the amount they need by eating a varied and balanced diet and by getting some sun. But if you decide to take vitamin D supplements it's a good idea not to take too much because this could be harmful.

Taking 25 micrograms (0.025 mg) or less of vitamin D supplements a day is unlikely to cause any harm.
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http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet/n ... /vitamind/
 
I take 2x10,000iu a day. (20,000iu).

20,000iu is approx. 0.5mg (500mcg).
 
I should have said part of the reason why I posted this is that the DN mentioned metformin possibly giving me a Vit B deficiency problem... would have to blood test for it in 5 years so don't forget to remind me she said.... :lol:
She did not say I should crank up my Vit B12 intake tho... doesn't matter how much you take if the phys isn't taking it up. Whaaat?! 8)

Vitamin B12 vs metformin - for ex "symptoms of B12 deficiency.... particularly those related to neuropathy (numbness, pain, or tingling in your hands or feet) ... be sure to let your physician know. He or she can check the level of vitamin B12 in your blood."
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Hmmm anyone know owt about this? 8)

Dunno about Vit D tho...

Just read some of the comments underneath that article in particular...

"I have now been taking Vitamin B12 for 24 days. In that time my insulin requirement has gone from 60-65 units to 15-20 daily. I still take Metformin and now take 2000mcg of B12.
My energy level has skyrocketed.It seems my mental cognition and memory have also improved.
Unfortunately many of the symptoms of B12 depletion mimic diabetes complications. I have been suffering from this depletion for at least 4 years and just learned to cope until I hit a wall and suffered many health consequences. It got so bad that in December I had decided to claim my disability insurance as I had no hope of maintaining a 40 hour work week.
Four days after taking Vitamin B12 I began to feel better. Within a week I felt “Good” for the first time in months. Lets get the word out about this! Too many people are suffering and the drug companies have done nothing to alert patients and physicians of consequences of metformin and glucophage for long term users."
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I was diagnosed with a Vit B12 deficiency earlier this year as a result of a full blood count I had.

Upshot is I am now taking Cyanocobalamin tabs daily to keep the levels up. There is also a course of injections which I declined as I didn't want any more jabs than I have to...... :(

I now have periodic checks, every 3 months but even before the deficiency was noticed I was having a routine B12 check every 6 mths. The protocol in my own practice is that if you are on Metformin you should be tested for B12 at least annually.........so 5 yrs seems a very odd time to wait ?? Mine came on within 6 mths !

Here is a copy of the protocol.........

Blood tests should be carried out according to local guidance, usually annual full blood count. There is no need to carry out routine B12 blood tests unless requested by GP if patient not responding to treatment.
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Professor of foods and nutrition, James C. Fleet, from Purdue University, said:

Fleet explains that most people do not consume enough vitamin D foods for their daily requirements. Vitamin supplements can be used to fill any dietary shortfalls.

People over 9 years of age should not receive over 4,000 IUs daily, Fleet adds. This is higher than the previous 2,000 limit. Those taking more than the recommended limit should check with their doctor.

Fleet said:
"Several groups need to especially pay attention to their vitamin D levels. For example, people with dark skin or those who cover up can't make vitamin D in their skin. Also, we lose the ability to make vitamin D in the skin as we age. At the same time, older adults' bones are becoming weaker, especially for postmenopausal women, so it is critical that vitamin D is consumed adequately to preserve bone health."
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Prof Fleet also said this:
Some believe that vitamin D has incredible benefits and the recommended amount should be even higher than the new recommendation. However, research does not yet mirror those beliefs, so there is more work to be done."
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Vitamin D helps transport calcium and phosphorous through the digestive system - it is a cholecalciferol. Bone health does not only depend on adequate levels of calcium, but also phosphorous. Phosphorous is vital for cell strength and energy production.
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Having read much about this before in relation to Vit D I wonder if Patch you discussed this supplement with anybody before deciding to go with it ? The level that you have quoted as taking is way above even these newer guidelines - you are taking 20,000 iu's daily as compared to the recommended - no more than 4,000 iu's. Is this what you were recommended to do. Seems way OTT to me. The implication of taking higher doses of Vit D might have unknown consequences for the levels of Calcium and Phosphorous in your body. They are both essential for many things.......

Cautions when taking vitamin D supplements
•If you are taking certain other medicines: digoxin or thiazide diuretics such as bendroflumethiazide. In this situation, avoid high doses of vitamin D, and digoxin will need monitoring.

•If you have other medical conditions: kidney stones, some types of kidney disease, liver disease or hormone disease. Specialist advice may be needed.

•Vitamin D should not be taken by people who have high calcium levels or certain types of cancer.

•You may need more than the usual dose if taking certain medicines which interfere with vitamin D. These are: carbamazepine, phenytoin, primidone and barbiturates.
.
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Many things to consider when thinking about high dose Vitamin D supplements.
 
I was officially diagnosed by hospital as having B12 deficiency 6 years ago with a level of 159.

I was given 3 monthly jabs up until November last year when my new GP refused anymore and said I was not deficient and didn't need B12 injections.

12 months on, I still ask for my B12 to be tested and my levels have consistently stayed at 670+. I have absolutely no idea how I could be declared with pernicious anaemia 6 years ago, and undiagnosed, as I was told I would need injections for the rest of my life. what made my levels dip and what has kept them raised now I haven't got a clue.

The overwhelming tiredness and forgefulness and pain I suffer is still present from 7 years+ ago, and this July it was officially rediagnosed as fibromyalgia. This was all put down to B12 previously. They thought I had dementia at 40, which is why the hospital started to check B12.

I wish I knew what caused my levels to drop and what has caused them to stay consistently high now......
 
Fascinating stuff on b12... seems to me anyone starting on met might be due for consideration of their B12 status in some way.
Reading more about this it is also more a concern for vegans. Or those who eat less meat, cheese etc for dietary reasons.
Blimey it is all so complicated and getting worse.... 8)
 
Going back to Vit D..........

I wonder if those taking much higher levels than advised of Vit D have read this from the
Vit D Council........

Vitamin D Upper Limit

If you absolutely avoid the sun, you should have your 25(OH)D level measured and remember that a maximum of 10,000 IU per day is the upper limit (UL) currently recommended by experts as the amount not to exceed unless under the care of a physician. When it comes to vitamin D, the right amount is good—a lot is not necessarily better and runs the risk of toxicity.
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http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml

So it seems that massive levels of Vit D have certain risks........ :|
 
I've looked into this looong before the above post - and 20,000iu is NO WHERE NEAR a toxic level for Vit. D. Also, I'm quite dark skinned (catch the sun very easily!).

I'm absolutely certain that the Vit. D I'm taking is having a positive effect on my health.

SUN SUPPLIES 10,000 UNITS OF VITAMIN D

The single most important fact anyone needs to know about vitamin D is how much nature supplies if we behave naturally, e.g., go into the sun. Humans make at least 10,000 units of vitamin D within 30 minutes of full body exposure to the sun, what is called a minimal erythemal dose. Vitamin D production in the skin occurs within minutes and is already maximized before your skin turns pink.
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Source: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org

Vit. D council IS a great site - it's where you'll get a lot of good info. Another name to google re: Vit. D is Dr. Robert Young. Although he DOES sell Vit. d at high doses (50000iu!) he has published a great deal of info on the matter. (I don't use his products - for Vit. D, gel caps are the most easily absorbed).
 
Glad to hear it's working for you.

Yes, we too have looked into the Vit D conundrum many times before. It's nothing new. We have had a few posts about it over a long period of time here. Most of the sites advocating such high levels are usually the ones that want to sell it to you........did you find out if you were deficient before you started taking it ?

We have seen what you posted about the amount required if you don't get any or much Sun.......the information about the upper limit is also from the Vitamin D Council. It is also the same as on many medical websites about Vit D. Strange how they would say you need so much in one place, then would tell us about the upper limit in another area ?

So long as you and other Members are aware what the actual medical recommendations are we can only hope that the people recommending much higher levels are not storing up trouble for themselves and others. We would hate to think it may be harmful for anybody....... :(

I hope it is doing you some good at those levels you quoted which are way above what is considered normal. Toxicity can and does occur. It's a medical fact, as to when that happens.....anybody's guess I suppose. :(

We like to be even handed. :)

Not sure if you have ever read this one about Vit D supplementation and Toxicity.......

Abnormally high levels of vitamin D are indicated by blood levels exceeding 65 ng/ml or 162 nmol/l for extended periods of time and may be associated with chronic toxicity. Levels of 200-300 nmol/l or higher have been seen in several studies using supplementation and quickly resolve when supplementation is stopped. In such cases no long-term problems have been found. Long-term supplementation, without monitoring, may have serious consequences.

Dr. Vieth suggests that critical toxicity may occur at doses of 20,000 IU daily and that the Upper Limit (UL) of safety be set at 10,000 IU, rather than the current 2,000 IU. While this may or may not be the definitive marker for safety in healthy persons with no active liver or kidney disease, there is no clinical evidence that long-term supplementation needs to be greater than 4,000 IU for optimal daily maintenance. This level would be somewhat lower when combined with exposure to UV-B.3;76
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The only thing I would say is if considering Vit D supplements get a test to see if you need it.....then make sure that you are monitored to avoid overdosing which according to this paper can occur at doses of 20,000 iu daily. Not my words Patch. The words of Krispin Sullivan considered to be the world's foremost expert on the relationship between vitamin D and human health.

If you are using supplements of vitamin D (natural or synthetic) or are light skinned and have had significant sun exposure in tropical or subtropical areas and haven't done so before, it is very important to test your blood levels of D.

Optimal values of 25(OH)D are 40-50 ng/ml
Acceptable values of 25(OH)D are 35-55 ng/ml
Levels above 55 ng/ml will be toxic for some individuals.
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http://drbenkim.com/articles-vitamind.html
 
It all depends where you look Nigel. The people who are selling it tell you one level is good, the 'experts' tell you another level is good.........however nearly all agree that the much higher levels that some sites advocate can be detrimental to your health.

It just goes to show that you sometimes need to do plenty of research about supplements before taking the plunge........don't just read all the hype.

It's the same old story, tell you everybody is deficient in something....with no proof.....tell you you need to take it......no evidence.......then tell you about what it cures.......no proof........then cut to the chase.......BUY from me......BUY my Book ! I know, I shouldn't be so cynical....... :wink:
 
cugila said:
It just goes to show that you sometimes need to do plenty of research about supplements before taking the plunge........don't just read all the hype.
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Very true Ken! :roll:

The following should make people sit-up and think taken from the article I posted:

''Very high levels of Vitamin D (above 10,000IUs per day) are known to cause kidney and tissue damage''.

Nigel
 
That's right. The same info was in what I posted before, trouble is even though that is what is consistently mentioned about the Toxicity issue.......you will always get those who think if it is good for me at 'x' dose it must be 5 times better for me if I take '5 times x' dose.

If you recall when I was given anti-Cancer drugs at the right dose they were good for me. When they inadvertently doubled the dose of the same drug........it nearly crippled me. God knows what that would have done to me long term. :(

Same with all these supplements........my view. An aid to deciding if they are needed.

a) Do you have a deficiency .......have you been tested.
b) Will a supplement help...........evidence for that.
c) Is it on prescription...............will I get it free.
d) Does it need monitoring while you take it........blood tests etc.

After that you are on your own, you make the choice after weighing up the advantages and disadvantages. The people who want you to buy and take their supplements are the equivalent of the 'Sales people' who prey on the weak and defenceless, the old, the infirm, the gullible. Those who don't know enough about the subject so believe all they are told........I mean, these people advising you are 'experts' aren't they ? It's only later that you realise all is not what it seems.......that you have been ripped off ! :(

You may be lucky and see a difference, however there are many out there who get no benefit whatsoever. Better to know from both side of the argument than just the blinkered one we sometimes see.......
 
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