What do I try next?

[Sixpence]

Hi, I'm so fed up with trying to watch my diet. Two years ago I was diagnosed with T2 with an HbA1c of 48 and told to eat healthily and exercise. I managed to lose two stones and brought my HbA1c down to 39 in 18 months. Success!! But I felt like c**p following a LCHF diet, aiming for 50 g CHO a day. I had constant brain fog, tired and hungry all the time, constipated, my hair thinned out and went frizzy and I looked old and ill. I was sick to death of eating protein and fat.

Last summer I went away on a study week and ate the 'take it or leave it' menu of mainly vegan food. Yes, that was scary!! All those beans and carbs. But I felt so much better. My energy levels rose and I felt alive again. I came home and decided I'd have a go at whole food plant based. Yes, I felt good for a few weeks eating less meat and dairy and more veg and fruit (one apple a day because an apple a day keeps the doctor away doesn't it?). But my weight was creeping up. Next I tried cutting out fructose while WFPB and then reducing the saturated fat I was eating and eating more avocados - one a day. Eventually I was eating a mediterranean style diet - more veg, less fruit, meat cheese, with low carb bread, no potatoes, rice but some pasta. A scone on a Sunday afternoon was a regular treat and a white-flour panini if nothing else available. So I've really fallen off the LCHF wagon. I've also tried to stick to 16:8 fasting throughout.

So I'm posting today because I've put 9 lbs back on and my FBG is back in the diabetic range but I can't face LCHF again. Forgot to mention last year my cholesterol was up and my GP wanted to prescribe statins. I refused saying I would try to get it down by diet! Three months later I got a DVT after a short-haul flight. My resistance to viruses is very low and I've literally had one cold after another since October last year.

I feel panicky when I see my weight and FBG creeping up because I don't want to go on metformin but LCHF is difficult for me.

So what do I do next? I could use some inspiration here because I'm stressed out with it all.

Sixpence

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi, I'm so fed up with trying to watch my diet. Two years ago I was diagnosed with T2 with an HbA1c of 48 and told to eat healthily and exercise. I managed to lose two stones and brought my HbA1c down to 39 in 18 months. Success!! But I felt like c**p following a LCHF diet, aiming for 50 g CHO a day. I had constant brain fog, tired and hungry all the time, constipated, my hair thinned out and went frizzy and I looked old and ill. I was sick to death of eating protein and fat.

Last summer I went away on a study week and ate the 'take it or leave it' menu of mainly vegan food. Yes, that was scary!! All those beans and carbs. But I felt so much better. My energy levels rose and I felt alive again. I came home and decided I'd have a go at whole food plant based. Yes, I felt good for a few weeks eating less meat and dairy and more veg and fruit (one apple a day because an apple a day keeps the doctor away doesn't it?). But my weight was creeping up. Next I tried cutting out fructose while WFPB and then reducing the saturated fat I was eating and eating more avocados - one a day. Eventually I was eating a mediterranean style diet - more veg, less fruit, meat cheese, with low carb bread, no potatoes, rice but some pasta. A scone on a Sunday afternoon was a regular treat and a white-flour panini if nothing else available. So I've really fallen off the LCHF wagon. I've also tried to stick to 16:8 fasting throughout.

So I'm posting today because I've put 9 lbs back on and my FBG is back in the diabetic range but I can't face LCHF again. Forgot to mention last year my cholesterol was up and my GP wanted to prescribe statins. I refused saying I would try to get it down by diet! Three months later I got a DVT after a short-haul flight. My resistance to viruses is very low and I've literally had one cold after another since October last year.

I feel panicky when I see my weight and FBG creeping up because I don't want to go on metformin but LCHF is difficult for me.

So what do I do next? I could use some inspiration here because I'm stressed out with it all.

Sixpence

Oh dear, you've got yourself into a bit of a dip in the roads there.

To be fair, I'm fine on reduced carbs, but I enjoy meat and veg. I only ever up the fat if my weight falls below my lower threshold, otherwise, I don't think too much about the fat elements.

Was there anything in particular that you didn't like about Low carving? When you had your brain fog, did you have any tests done for hormonal or vitamin issues? Brain fog can be such a pesky thing, as it can be related to many, many things

I have never experienced it relating to my T2, but surely did with a slightly, and really only slightly wonky thyroid. It doesn't necessarily take a lot for it to be debilitating.

 

[Sixpence]

I agree, I am in a dip in the road. My difficulty with low carb was feeling hungry and tired all the time as well as the digestion and hair issues.

No, I didn't go to my GP with my brain fog because I'd read about keto flu and put it down to that. Perhaps I should have gone but they're not interested my T2. I told one GP that I watched my diet, went to the gym and measured my FBG. He was dismissive and told me that while he 'applauded my efforts' I didn't need to do any testing! I felt ridiculed.

I know everyone's different when it comes to finding the diet that suits them but I hadn't realised I would find it so difficult to find the right diet for me. Perhaps I can't control it by diet alone.

 

[DCUKMod]

I agree, I am in a dip in the road. My difficulty with low carb was feeling hungry and tired all the time as well as the digestion and hair issues.

No, I didn't go to my GP with my brain fog because I'd read about keto flu and put it down to that. Perhaps I should have gone but they're not interested my T2. I told one GP that I watched my diet, went to the gym and measured my FBG. He was dismissive and told me that while he 'applauded my efforts' I didn't need to do any testing! I felt ridiculed.

I know everyone's different when it comes to finding the diet that suits them but I hadn't realised I would find it so difficult to find the right diet for me. Perhaps I can't control it by diet alone.

To be honest, fatigue and thinning hair would have me asking for vitamin and hormone bloods immediately. I'm not suggesting you do, or did, have a wonky thyroid, but those are two of the most common symptoms of hypothyroidism. Vitamin deficiencies can also generate similar symptoms.

When did you last have a decent wide spectrum set of bloods done? I'd want those done, prior to making any material changes to my way of living.

 

[Pasha]

I agree, I am in a dip in the road. My difficulty with low carb was feeling hungry and tired all the time as well as the digestion and hair issues.

No, I didn't go to my GP with my brain fog because I'd read about keto flu and put it down to that. Perhaps I should have gone but they're not interested my T2. I told one GP that I watched my diet, went to the gym and measured my FBG. He was dismissive and told me that while he 'applauded my efforts' I didn't need to do any testing! I felt ridiculed.

I know everyone's different when it comes to finding the diet that suits them but I hadn't realised I would find it so difficult to find the right diet for me. Perhaps I can't control it by diet alone.

Did you do blood tests when trying out the LCHF, especially the results for sodium and potassium re brain fog. I also found the LCHF diet difficult in the first few weeks but later felt better. Dont think for a moment that Metformin is a silver bullet, it does help but you still need portion control and macro nutrient ratios that suit you. Why not start afresh and report your results here and if necessary get some benefit from the extensive collective experiences of many members.

 

[Flora123]

I agree, I am in a dip in the road. My difficulty with low carb was feeling hungry and tired all the time as well as the digestion and hair issues.

No, I didn't go to my GP with my brain fog because I'd read about keto flu and put it down to that. Perhaps I should have gone but they're not interested my T2. I told one GP that I watched my diet, went to the gym and measured my FBG. He was dismissive and told me that while he 'applauded my efforts' I didn't need to do any testing! I felt ridiculed.

I know everyone's different when it comes to finding the diet that suits them but I hadn't realised I would find it so difficult to find the right diet for me. Perhaps I can't control it by diet alone.

Can you give us a true example of a days worth you would typically eat on LCHF? You shouldn’t be hungry on it. The symptoms you describe are the opposite of how you should feel, but then everyone is different.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I agree, I am in a dip in the road. My difficulty with low carb was feeling hungry and tired all the time as well as the digestion and hair issues.

No, I didn't go to my GP with my brain fog because I'd read about keto flu and put it down to that. Perhaps I should have gone but they're not interested my T2. I told one GP that I watched my diet, went to the gym and measured my FBG. He was dismissive and told me that while he 'applauded my efforts' I didn't need to do any testing! I felt ridiculed.

I know everyone's different when it comes to finding the diet that suits them but I hadn't realised I would find it so difficult to find the right diet for me. Perhaps I can't control it by diet alone.

I have a feeling the LCHF you were doing wasn't quite balanced... If you were hungry all the time it in all likelyhood lacked enough fats, for one thing. The brainfog and thinning hair could be vitamin and mineral deficiencies, brought on by the same, but as someone with hypothyroidism, it also rings a bell there. (Is your skin flaky? Eyelids puffy? Throat slightly swollen?). There could be so much going on that could explain your symptoms.

If we can help look at what you used to eat, see what could be tweaked there so you wouldn't be absolutely miserable if once more deciding to go that route? And maybe get tests for hypothyroidism, vitamin and mineral deficiencies (especially magnesium, iron, potassium, B and D). We can try to figure this out together, but all in all... Your diet should make you clear-headed, give you energy and keep you feeling full... If that's not the case, it probablt needs fixing. And the people here are good at that.

 

[Sixpence]

Thanks for your replies

It's six months since I had full bloods done when I had my last diabetic review and nothing was amiss. My next one was due last month due to the practice rearranging their reviews but I've not been called yet. I've to see a GP this Friday for my DVT review and I'll raise the low immunity and hair problems etc with her then.

I couldn't say now what a typical day on LCHF looked like but I generally would do the 16:8 fast. Lunch would be around 12.00 with a mid-afternoon snack and then dinner in the evening around 7.30. I lived on eggs, cheese, nuts, fish, oatcakes, ryvitas through the day. Meat or fish and salad for dinner; fish in breadcrumbs once a week and chicken kievs once a week. Berries for pudding with either cream or Greek yoghurt.

After having a vegan diet for a week and feeling so much better I started to eat more veg and fruit and less cheese and then low carb bread - 1 or 2 slices a week. No potatoes or rice.

I feel like I've done every possible diet from being keto at the start on 800 cals a day, low carb around 50 g a day, no fructose, no saturated fats, Mediterranean low GI, and whole food plant based. My diet is now moderate carb - no potatoes, rice or pasta - and still roughly 16:8 but my weight is creeping up. I worked hard to lose two stones and now I've put about half a stone on again.

Today I fasted until 12.00 when I had a large gammon steak and a large Braeburn apple, then at about 2.45 had three oatcakes because I was still hungry. An hour later I'm still hungry.

 

[Resurgam]

When on low carb, did you go for low carb foods or just measure out small portions of higher carb ones, or include higher carb 'treats'?
It seems the same - but it leaves you hungry and tired, and on 50 gm of carbs a day I have been able to eat happily for decades - I started eating low carb in the early 1970s, but was constantly told how bad it was, even though it made me energetic and thinner than the 'proper' calorie counting regimes pushed on me.
I only eat twice a day as I am not hungry on low carb.
First meal is often a stir fry an omelette or a salad, and coffee with cream.
Last meal is meat or fish with low carb veges and then a dessert.
As I picked up some bags of salad at the shops last time I was there, I have had chicken salad, tuna salad, ham salad, and the 250 gm of salad was almost more than I could manage, the bag of mixed salad, a tomato and some coleslaw.

 

[Resurgam]

Ah - oatcakes and Ryvitas - grains are not on my menu. Fish with grain meat with grain - those small amounts could be switching you out of ketosis each time you eat them, starting the release of insulin and so making you tired and hungry.
A large apple will do the same but for longer, plus the fructose goes to your liver to be stored.
Fruit and veges are often lumped together as in the '5 a day' mantra, but they are very different in their consequences when eaten.
With your pork, why not have sweet pepper, courgette, mushrooms and a side salad to the same amount of carbs as your apple and see if you still feel hungry later.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks for your replies

It's six months since I had full bloods done when I had my last diabetic review and nothing was amiss. My next one was due last month due to the practice rearranging their reviews but I've not been called yet. I've to see a GP this Friday for my DVT review and I'll raise the low immunity and hair problems etc with her then.

I couldn't say now what a typical day on LCHF looked like but I generally would do the 16:8 fast. Lunch would be around 12.00 with a mid-afternoon snack and then dinner in the evening around 7.30. I lived on eggs, cheese, nuts, fish, oatcakes, ryvitas through the day. Meat or fish and salad for dinner; fish in breadcrumbs once a week and chicken kievs once a week. Berries for pudding with either cream or Greek yoghurt.

After having a vegan diet for a week and feeling so much better I started to eat more veg and fruit and less cheese and then low carb bread - 1 or 2 slices a week. No potatoes or rice.

I feel like I've done every possible diet from being keto at the start on 800 cals a day, low carb around 50 g a day, no fructose, no saturated fats, Mediterranean low GI, and whole food plant based. My diet is now moderate carb - no potatoes, rice or pasta - and still roughly 16:8 but my weight is creeping up. I worked hard to lose two stones and now I've put about half a stone on again.

Today I fasted until 12.00 when I had a large gammon steak and a large Braeburn apple, then at about 2.45 had three oatcakes because I was still hungry. An hour later I'm still hungry.

That's a few too many carbs for me, and maybe, for you too? I know if I eat something with a couple of carbs in, I'm hungry and tired soon after. (So the bread, oatcakes and such would be counterproductive. Apples and oatcakes.... I don't even want to know the amount of carbs in those. And yeah, they'd leave me hungry too). I do find it funny -funny strange, not funny ha-ha- , that going vegan made such a difference. Makes you wonder if there's a different intolerance at play...

I'm out of my depth, in any case.Thankfully, we've got loads of members who aren't as clueless as I am, haha.

 

[Sixpence]

Thanks again for your replies. You people have a lot of experience and knowledge

OK, I'm starting to wonder if I am intolerant to some degree of grains and dairy. About twenty years ago, long before I was diagnosed T2, I went on a diet and cut out all grains, sugar, caffeine and alcohol. For a couple a weeks I felt horrible but my concentration improved and I felt less anxious; I just felt better. But avoiding grains became too much of a pain and wheat made its way back into my regular diet. Perhaps the white breadcrumbs that coat fish and chicken steaks etc plus my scone at the weekend are doing more damage than I realised. I haven't taken milk for about thirty years because it bloats me and gives me wind (TMI, sorry) but I thought I was OK with cheese. On my vegan week I had no cheese and am now wondering if cheese is causing me problems too.

I think I'm going to try low-carbing again - around 50g CHO - and cut out grains, fruit and cheese, and keep any carbs low GI and see what happens. I've got to start somewhere.

 

[Resurgam]

Ah - GI - makes not the slightest difference to me - carbs are carbs and I keep to under 11 percent carb foods because that is my limit according to the meter.
Chese might cause you problems if you are sensitive to the proteins, rather than to lactose which is a more common thing.

 

[jjraak]

well as much as i understand NO meds...the metformin in my eyes does seem to do a lot of good ..(see link)

with alzheimer's, being described as a type of diabetes in some places, MET is said to help on that front.

brain fog..COULD be a lack of B12...diabetics particularly on MET suffer depletion, so they say.

i am currently on MET, and tolerate it pretty
But i did for the first few weeks feel very confused, more to do with going cold turkey on the sugars and carbs then anything else, i think.

it's all a balancing act as each of us are individual, and what affects one, may not bother another.

I sounds like the fruit gave you the lift in whatever was missing from the LCHF, but sadly increased the weight.

Maybe check out if you do need extra B12, it does seem it can be an issue for many.

And perhaps as mentioned, then give the LCHF another go..
I must admit to eating better, but less often, as this way does make me full, and snacking/hunger is rarely an issue.
Two meals a day, and I'm good

I hope you find a way that does work for you.

Best of luck

 

[Sixpence]

I just hate the thought of having to take regular medication for anything; I've been on long-term meds before and it just feels wrong! I suppose I should be grateful really for the good they have done me in the past. I think I do need to check out my blood vitamin/mineral levels. I'm also thinking this evening that I should try rotating my proteins: beef on Mondays, salmon on Tuesdays etc to see if it uncovers any intolerances. Cheese might not be the problem.

 

[zauberflote]

@Sixpence here’s another possible alphabet soup for you - GFCF. Gluten free/casein free diet. The casein is the milk protein. Many people do not well tolerate one or the other of these, and all these combos of things one shouldn’t eat can leave the shopping list pretty boring. I have no idea if the GFCF thing is right for you! But you could google around and see if any signs match yours.
Something my (autistic) son had to try when he was 7 was a food elimination diet to ascertain food allergies. For him it was a total failure because mommy couldn’t stand him wandering around whimpering, starving himself, but adults are better at this kind of thing! The idea is, you have a set list of foods that are NOT common allergy/reaction-prone ones, and you eat those for a week or two to clear your system out. Then you add in ONE suspect food, in increasing portions, for a week or two to see what happens. If you feel or get worse, no more of that one. If no effect, keep it and add another suspect food. Lather, rinse, repeat over and over. So 24 hours between different foods might not be long enough for your body to tell you about longer-term effects. Hope all that made sense!

 

[DCUKMod]

@Sixpence - you've had a lot of ideas thrown at you there.

You may well have an intolerance thrown into the mix there; highlighted by a change in diet, but one thing I would suggest is you change nothing major until you have had your bloods done. Making changes then testing could mask things, so not at all as intended.

I'm a slight old bird, and am fortunate not to have too many concerns for upwardly creeping weight right now, but a few weeks ago, contemplating a very long haul flight, with the usual dubious inflight menus, I decided I'd fast through it.

In preparation I did about 5 days of carnivorous eating. I just had meat, a bit of cheese now and then, and milk in tea and coffees. I was utterly astonished how hungry I just didn't feel and how easy the fast then was.

The slight downside was I lost a small amount of weight, but it wasn't a material amount, and I can deal with that in time.

I wouldn't like to go carnivorous full time, but I would definitely do it again for a few days. It also helped reduce freezer levels!

As for longer terms meds. I've been a lifelong less is more gal, as far as meds go, and until a few months ago when I started a low dose of levothyroxine to help the slightly wonky thyroid out. Trust me; within a few weeks, feeling well overtook any ego surrounding being meds free. Trust me, I was over that.

My doses are still being tweaked (thyroids can take a while to get balanced), and each week I top up my pill pot (I use it to track if I've remembered d to take it), I resent the act, but I now know that pesky butterfly gland needs a bit of help, and when it's protesting it makes its little self known.

In all that, I think what I'm saying is; back to basics with some benchmark bloods. Ask for the results and research them on your own. Sometimes an expression of "fine" isn't really fine at all, for us. Then, decide to change one thing at a time. Too many changes and you'll never know what did what. And try to keep an open mind on a bit of pharma support. It wouldn't necessarily have to be forever.

That'd be my strategy.

 

[Tophat1900]

Thanks for your replies

It's six months since I had full bloods done when I had my last diabetic review and nothing was amiss. My next one was due last month due to the practice rearranging their reviews but I've not been called yet. I've to see a GP this Friday for my DVT review and I'll raise the low immunity and hair problems etc with her then.

Do you ask for a copy of your blood test results?

It's not unusual for doctors to state that everything is fine with results, when they are actually not. I would be looking at vitamin and mineral test results.

 

[Sixpence]

Thanks again for your replies

OK, I take on board all that's been suggested about blood tests and I will definitely check that out this week with my GP.

The question of my having a food intolerance interests me. I know I can't take milk and had put that down to the lactose making disagreeing with me and when I cut out grains years ago I felt better. I'll have a look at doing an elimination diet.

I read what you said @DCUKMod about your five days as a carnivore. Five years ago before a family wedding I did three days on the Dukan diet when I basically lived on tinned tuna - no fats or carbs. Weight dropped off me - several pounds - and it didn't just pile on afterwards when I went back to normal eating. BUT I was ravenous all the time and how I managed it was down to sheer desperation to lose weight, but I didn't feel tired with it though. So I'm wondering if I simply can't cope with large helpings of protein foods? I know iron tablets make me hungry. Perhaps that's why I felt better on my vegan week?

So much to think about; so many 'perhaps' in there! I'm so grateful to you all for your help and support, sharing your experiences and knowledge with me, because I was feeling very low, lonely and becoming desperate with it all yesterday. I know diabetes is a life long journey and it's good to know I'm not as alone as I feel at times.

 

[bulkbiker]

did three days on the Dukan diet when I basically lived on tinned tuna - no fats or carbs. Weight dropped off me - several pounds - and it didn't just pile on afterwards when I went back to normal eating. BUT I was ravenous all the time and how I managed it was down to sheer desperation to lose weigh

The hunger was down to not enough fat.. tuna doesn’t have much. Try beef,pork,lamb and see how you get on.