What I’ve learned from my libre...

[Dandelade]

Firstly, I’m doing way better than I thought I was! My finger pricks were picking up dp, and the top of the curve fluctuations, the rest of the time I’m 5-6, with an average of 5.4.

The blips for coffee finally convinced me to switch to almond milk - it was my last bastion of carbs so now into proper Keto.

Takeaway with lots of meat sent it high for a few hours, moderation no more mixed grills the lesson!

Retried if and pushed back breakfast. Still got high dp which took a few hours to go and made me feel sick and one day vomited after breakfast when I was high.

The results from exercise were the most surprising. Expected the rise, then when stop a fall again. What I didn’t expect was for a few days after was the big effect it had on the time dp rise came down which returned to normal 2 hours sooner and this lasted for 3 days! It didn’t matter if it was hours of gentle gardening or a 20 minute run either (I mean I’m so unfit that 20 minute run was probably HIIT with lots of stopping).

I guess at this point more and shorter bursts of exercise to reduce ir is the plan, almond milk, breakfast later than usual.

A few days left, suggestions on other things to find out?

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @Dandelade What I found stopped DP in its tracks was a zero carb breakfast. Once the liver recognises I have eaten it stops dumping glucose into my blood stream, SO a couple of boiled eggs or a chink of (hard) cheese and the BG reading 2hrs later would either be the same of less than before.

 

[Dandelade]

Hi @Dandelade What I found stopped DP in its tracks was a zero carb breakfast. Once the liver recognises I have eaten it stops dumping glucose into my blood stream, SO a couple of boiled eggs or a chink of (hard) cheese and the BG reading 2hrs later would either be the same of less than before.

Thanks for the reply @ianf0ster its much appreciated.

tbh I’m so confused about next steps. I was doing protein breakfasts to flatten the dp and it was working just like you said. Then I had a 4 week weight plateau and was reading Jason fung’s diabetes code which seemed to be saying just let the liver dump, the rise will move the sugar out of the liver/ muscles etc, and moving the breakfast back will trigger fat breakdown to cover energy. So intermittent fasting (late breakfast makes mine a 16:8) leading to rises are ok and good?

But they don’t feel good and it’s a toss up between keeping sugars normal and losing weight to reduce insulin resistance?

Not really sure which route to go down, have I interpreted things correctly? Alternative opinions welcome!

 

[ianf0ster]

H

Thanks for the reply @ianf0ster its much appreciated.

tbh I’m so confused about next steps. I was doing protein breakfasts to flatten the dp and it was working just like you said. Then I had a 4 week weight plateau and was reading Jason fung’s diabetes code which seemed to be saying just let the liver dump, the rise will move the sugar out of the liver/ muscles etc, and moving the breakfast back will trigger fat breakdown to cover energy. So intermittent fasting (late breakfast makes mine a 16:8) leading to rises are ok and good?

But they don’t feel good and it’s a toss up between keeping sugars normal and losing weight to reduce insulin resistance?

Not really sure which route to go down, have I interpreted things correctly? Alternative opinions welcome!

Hi @Dandelade That is something that I pondered myself. Fortunately my DP wasn't strong enough to be a great concern.
I only changed to a 16:8 - or am 18:6 at weekends after I was fully fat adapted. Until that time I concentrated on controlling my BG levels.
If your DP doesn't push your BG above 8.0 mmol, then you may consider 16:8, but until them I personally wouldn't push my body by making too many changes at once.

You may wonder how I decided that I was fully fat adapted. - Three things:
A. My HbA1C was in the reduced into the pre-diabetic range and expected to drop further because of it being a 3 month average of BG.
B. I had lost over 10% of my weight at T2D diagnosis.
C. I no longer felt hungry at 'breakfast' so I found that by having a morning breakfast, I was breaking my own rule about only eating when hungry. Note all I have in a morning is a green tea - just teabag and water!

I hope this helps

 

[Dandelade]

H


Hi @Dandelade That is something that I pondered myself. Fortunately my DP wasn't strong enough to be a great concern.
I only changed to a 16:8 - or am 18:6 at weekends after I was fully fat adapted. Until that time I concentrated on controlling my BG levels.
If your DP doesn't push your BG above 8.0 mmol, then you may consider 16:8, but until them I personally wouldn't push my body by making too many changes at once.

You may wonder how I decided that I was fully fat adapted. - Three things:
A. My HbA1C was in the reduced into the pre-diabetic range and expected to drop further because of it being a 3 month average of BG.
B. I had lost over 10% of my weight at T2D diagnosis.
C. I no longer felt hungry at 'breakfast' so I found that by having a morning breakfast, I was breaking my own rule about only eating when hungry. Note all I have in a morning is a green tea - just teabag and water!

I hope this helps

Thank you @ianf0ster. The how do you know you’re fat adapted was really helpful. I’m fairly chuffed with my levels apart from dp, lost about 5%, and completely no idea if the nauseous feeling is hunger?! By those criteria I’m not fully fat adapted yet and maybe need to stop pushing my body too fast! Must repeat to myself it’s a marathon not sprint...

 

[Zeddedhed]

Sorry to ask what may be an obvious question, but what does it mean to be 'fat adapted'?

 

[catinahat]

Sorry to ask what may be an obvious question, but what does it mean to be 'fat adapted'?

What Is Fat Adapted?
Plainly put, “fat adapted” is the metabolic state your body is in once you’ve been in ketosis long enough that your body has efficiently transitioned from burning carbs/sugar for energy to burning fats from your food, body-generated fats, and your stored body-fat reserves for energy.
Copied from here https://keto-mojo.com/article/what-is-fat-adapted-how-long-it-takes/

 

[Dandelade]

What Is Fat Adapted?
Plainly put, “fat adapted” is the metabolic state your body is in once you’ve been in ketosis long enough that your body has efficiently transitioned from burning carbs/sugar for energy to burning fats from your food, body-generated fats, and your stored body-fat reserves for energy.
Copied from here https://keto-mojo.com/article/what-is-fat-adapted-how-long-it-takes/

Thanks for the link @catinahat. I’m annoyed at myself now for holding onto milk for so long or I’d be well past the time it takes grrrr.

 

[coby]

Firstly, I’m doing way better than I thought I was! My finger pricks were picking up dp, and the top of the curve fluctuations, the rest of the time I’m 5-6, with an average of 5.4.

The blips for coffee finally convinced me to switch to almond milk - it was my last bastion of carbs so now into proper Keto.

Takeaway with lots of meat sent it high for a few hours, moderation no more mixed grills the lesson!

Retried if and pushed back breakfast. Still got high dp which took a few hours to go and made me feel sick and one day vomited after breakfast when I was high.

The results from exercise were the most surprising. Expected the rise, then when stop a fall again. What I didn’t expect was for a few days after was the big effect it had on the time dp rise came down which returned to normal 2 hours sooner and this lasted for 3 days! It didn’t matter if it was hours of gentle gardening or a 20 minute run either (I mean I’m so unfit that 20 minute run was probably HIIT with lots of stopping).

I guess at this point more and shorter bursts of exercise to reduce ir is the plan, almond milk, breakfast later than usual.

A few days left, suggestions on other things to find out?

That's so interesting!

 

[Dandelade]

That's so interesting!

It was your comment on the other thread that made me retry intermittent fasting @coby while I had the libre so thank you. I mean it has been of varying success for me but at least I know what happens now and it did actually kick start another pound loss (maybe, possibly).

 

[finsit]

Unless you go carb free for 2-3 months and melt all fat around your liver, dawn phenomenon will continue to chase you due to insulin resistance. I did all these experiments in the last 10 months as you can see from my posts and the conclusion is simple. Eat ONLY when hungry even its 1 meal a day or as many as 4. Eat small portions. Eat less saturated fats. Respect circadian rhythm and no food for 2 hours after waking up.

 

[Dandelade]

Unless you go carb free for 2-3 months and melt all fat around your liver, dawn phenomenon will continue to chase you due to insulin resistance. I did all these experiments in the last 10 months as you can see from my posts and the conclusion is simple. Eat ONLY when hungry even its 1 meal a day or as many as 4. Eat small portions. Eat less saturated fats. Respect circadian rhythm and no food for 2 hours after waking up.

Thanks @finsit I have been low carb for about 3 months now but not keto. Will do some of your suggestions and am trying to edge into keto rather than low carb!

 

[finsit]

Thanks @finsit I have been low carb for about 3 months now but not keto. Will do some of your suggestions and am trying to edge into keto rather than low carb!

I don't like the word keto as its so confusing these days. If you keep your total carb intake under 30 gm / day for 3 months, you should become better insulin sensitive. I didn't eat carrots, berries and was very careful at the start not to exceed 20 gm/day. But it paid off. Now I can cross 50gm and still have stable BGs. Read Primal Blueprints by Mark, if you have not already did it

 

[Dandelade]

I don't like the word keto as its so confusing these days. If you keep your total carb intake under 30 gm / day for 3 months, you should become better insulin sensitive. I didn't eat carrots, berries and was very careful at the start not to exceed 20 gm/day. But it paid off. Now I can cross 50gm and still have stable BGs. Read Primal Blueprints by Mark, if you have not already did it

I started off at about 50g then decreased to under 30g which I’ve been at for about a month now - bye bye milk Love a good book recommendation thank you!

 

[johnme]

I know this is a relatively old thread but could someone tell me please what dp means in it? Thanks

 

[KennyA]

I know this is a relatively old thread but could someone tell me please what dp means in it? Thanks

Dawn Phenomenon. Where the liver dumps glucose in your bloodstream as you wake, and for some time afterwards, in anticipation of another day spent dodging sabre tooth tigers.

 

[johnme]

Ah, those tigers. Thanks