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What Would Count as a Cure for Type 2?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Grateful, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. LittleGreyCat

    LittleGreyCat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion (for what it is worth) an effective cure for type 2 diabetes would have to eliminate insulin resistance whilst there are still enough beta cells to handle any glycemic load up to an OGTT. Fasting and post meal BG levels should be in the normal range, as should the HbA1c, without any major dietary constraints.

    This would, of course, recognise that you have a metabolic vulnerability which led you to develop T2 in the first place and thus it could return if you abuse your system repeatedly.

    I see that some people would require a return to full functionality of the pancreas. I would consider it a cure if the pancreas still had enough functionality to last out the rest of my life. Everything wears out eventually so if my pancreas was in line with everything else (apart from my knees) I would consider that effectively a cure; or so close not to be worth arguing about.
     
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  2. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That's the kind of answer that's so impossible to come back at it wins debating competitions! It really made me think.

    It leads to a very different way of looking at Type 2 diabetes:

    If you take the view that humans never evolved to eat any or many carbs, then you could argue that Type 2 diabetes is not, in fact, a disease. Carbs are poisons, so Type 2 is no more a defect than is our inability to survive long falls. Further, you could argue that people who are not (currently) Type 2, are just people who are abnormally resistant to this particular poison. The more a population is flooded with carbohydrates, the more individuals are poisoned, which seems a reasonable description of the problem in many societies over the last few decades.

    There are so many ways to look at it.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I certainly hope not ... otherwise we have it very wrong here... at least in respect of Type 2.
    As there would be no mechanism by which we would develop insulin resistance then Type 2 shouldn't really be a problem.
     
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    That sounds remarkably similar to the way I look at it...
     
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  5. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Unconventional but not at all unreasonable.
     
  6. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Expert
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    Hey! I'm all for "personal pondering". :)

    In my case it would be to sort out the angry misguided immune system going on & a " Doctor Who" regeneration of the pancreas?

    I kind of feel that our minds have evolved thoughts creating all these fantastic culinary treats, long before our bodies have evolved to tolerate them in some cases..? In short victims of our own success..
     
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  7. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I like the idea that non Diabetics could be the 'abnormal' ones, now I wonder what the media would have to say about that? Something along the lines of 'Burn The Witch!'.

    Joking aside, there is the old adage of Prevention is better than Cure. If someday the world comes to its senses and realises that the sheer amount of carbs in the western diet is killing us then maybe we will survive this epidemic and possibly put to rights the enviromental damage that carb production has caused.
     
  8. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I am with you on that one. I reckon that this started with the Industrial Revolution in terms of numbers.
    I do beleive that the first breakthrough will come in the form of screening neonates for T1.
     
  9. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The evolutionary aspect is interesting.

    Type 2 rarely will stop someone producing offspring, as in, even without medication, most people with it are likely to live to be old enough to reproduce.

    I've just deleted all the rambling after that, because it's too complicated for my head.

    But anyway, in principle, maybe if we carried on with carb-rich societies, Type 2 genes would eventually "die out". It's never as simple as that, though.
     
  10. archersuz

    archersuz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had a test that showed positive for the predisposition - I had gestational diabetes. But did it 'educate' me and did I change my ways? NO!!! And now 22 years later I have T2. Interestingly I asked my GP a few years ago if I should have a test because of the gestational diabetes and he said no. When I went to see a different GP when I was diagnosed, she admitted that I should have been tested annually, and the practice had only just found that out!
    So, there is only a value in developing a genetic test if people who get a 'positive' receive the education and support required to change their lifestyle and diet. How I wish I had listened to my body 22 years ago......
     
  11. archersuz

    archersuz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Generally we reproduce before we are aware that we will develop T2, or become aware that we have a genetic predisposition through the development of gestational diabetes. I would rather not have T2 but I have now informed both of my offspring that they are likely to develop it and that they should consider their diet and lifestyle now and not when it's too late.

    I can not find any trace of diabetes in my family except for my generation. My father's family had a history of heart disease and I now wonder if this was due to undiagnosed T2. Because of this, I have always been a non-smoker and non-drinker, but I wonder if I was barking up the wrong tree?
     
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  12. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I have not heard of a genetic test for the predisposition of T2. I did not have GD and was not aware that there was a genetic test for that either. I am under the impression that the predisposition is in essence an hypothesis yet to be proved.
     
  13. CherryAA

    CherryAA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had cause to apply for a health insurance policy this week. I said I had consulted a doctor about diabetes but was on no medication. I enclosed my last blood tests, they came back with a diabetes exclusion I replied - on what basis are you deciding it should be excluded. Please look at my blood tests properly. They removed the diabetes exclusion. I consider that " cured".
     
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  14. archersuz

    archersuz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Guzzler I don't mean that I had a scientific genetic test - I was given the heads-up that I was likely to go on to develop T2 because of the gestational diabetes.
     
  15. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think carbs are poison. However, refined sugar and refined carbs are not optimal foods for humans, along with industrially processed seed oils and processed food. These non-optimal foods make up the bulk of the western diet and, I believe, cause the majority of "western" diseases, including type 2 diabetes. So, even if many people can eat the western diet and not have elevated blood glucose levels, this doesn't mean their diet is healthy.
     
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  16. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Ah, sorry. Crossed lines.
     
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  17. archersuz

    archersuz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I could have worded it better!
     
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  18. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I wonder similar things about my "genetic inheritance". My mum is definitely T2, and my father (who I didn't live with) was not exactly one to talk about his health, but he died from a heart problem which is classically associated with T2.

    Either way I still strongly suspect that, for me, the last 20 years of inhaling alcohol, crisps, pies and cake was sub-optimal :)
     
  19. archersuz

    archersuz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I miss crisps :(
     
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  20. midnightrider

    midnightrider Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I believe a 'cure; to be possible if caught early enough. Insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome appears to be caused by visceral fat around the pancreas and liver, though there are of course other causes too.
    In early stages, the metabolism of carbs is hindered but damage to the pancreas is small. If the visceral fat is removed through diet and the metabolism is increased/improved through exercise the cause of the problem is removed and the condition may be regarded as cured.
    If all BG readings are well within the normal range whatever food is eaten, and without any medication being taken I believe that 'cure' is an appropriate definition. If the low BG is due to a very low carb diet, this cannot be seen as a cure, as the body is still incapable of processing carbs, though it may be just as effective in preventing complications.

    I haven't had a FBG over 4.5 in over 6 months, and my last HbA1c was 31 despite averaging 180g/day of carbs. Sure, if I put weight on again the problem may return, but if I hit my arm with a hammer my broken arm may return. For now I have no intention of stopping testing as I may be wrong. I don't think that carbs are poisons though I treat them with more care than I used to

    It is of course the case that for many people, damage to the pancreas is too severe by diagnosis for this approach to be feasible. In which case, eliminating carbs may be the answer.
     
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