why dose diet matter ?

[Dillinger]

I've never had an A1C has high as 6.5 in 32 years as Type 1 taking insulin.

Sorry to break this to you; but you've got an HbA1c of 6.5 now according to your footer!

I'm not saying one should have zero carbs I'm saying you can if you want.

As a Type 1 insulin is never optional; of course we have to have it.

This is all based on the science; technically carbohydrate is not essential; meaning the body can manufacture necessary glucose from fat and protein and therefore we don't need to eat it. That means as diabetics who cannot properly metabolise carbohydrates we can manage our blood sugars more effectively if we reduce them as much as possible.

You wouldn't manage peanut allergies by eating plenty of peanuts and managing your condition with an epipen would you?

Some people get very good results on moderate carbs but most in the UK at least, if these NHS audits are to believed, do not get very good results on the current strategy for managing diabetes.

 

[TheBigNewt]

Yeah it does say 6.5%, I think I guessed at an oveall average, but they are usually between 5.8 and 6.2. My last one was 6.2%. I think if one consumes low glycemic carbs in moderation (as I do), you can take 3-6 units of Novolog and maintain fairly normal blood sugars MOST of the time. Sometimes I'll only take 2U for a paleo dinner.

 

[azure]

Dillunger, correlation is not causation. There's no proof that the higher HbA1Cs of some PWDs are caused by 'evil carbs'. It's far more likely to be a lack of education.

If I'd read the info about Keto and then looked at my BS results soon after diagnosis, I'd have been brainwashed into thinking 'carbs are evil' because my after meal results were higher than desired. However, fortunately I had a good consultant and DSN and my after-meal results improved not by reducing my carbs down to silly levels, but by using my insulin more 'smartly' and pre-bolusing.

Ive tried every diet that I've come across and that is safe, and there's nothing special about LCHF/keto. It swaps one set of problems for another for Type 1s.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

High insulin doses, whether endogenous or exogenous, cause insulin resistance. We can't ignore that fact.

Meaning if you eat high calorie meals and take more and more insulin to maintain stable sugars, you will eventually get IR, caused by weight gain (insulin literally makes you gain weight, by converting glucose to fat). I suggest people read Dr Jason Fung's blog posts on the subject of what causes IR: high calorie diets.

I checked on the recommended diets section for this website, btw Azure, and I saw no subforum for high-calorie + high-carb + high-fat diets, which is what eating pizza and french fries qualifies as.

A single slice of pizza has these nutritional values (taken from google):

Nutrition Facts
Pizza, 14" regular crust
Amount Per 1 slice (107 g)
Calories 285
% Daily Value*
Total Fat 10 g 15%
Saturated fat 4.8 g 24%
Polyunsaturated fat 1.8 g
Monounsaturated fat 2.8 g
Trans fat 0.3 g
Cholesterol 18.2 mg 6%
Sodium 639.9 mg 26%
Potassium 184 mg 5%
Total Carbohydrate 36 g 12%
Dietary fiber 2.5 g 10%
Sugar 3.8 g
Protein 12 g 24%

So pardon me when I see advice on a type 1 thread suggesting that eating an entire pizza is perfectly acceptable diet choice for other type 1 diabetics, so long as enough insulin is taken, I have to shake my head and call a red flag on that one.

There is no suggested diet that says eating high-fat, high-carb AND high-calorie foods are good for even healthy people, let alone a type 1 or type 2 diabetic. That's absurd.

You can go vegetarian which isn't necessarily low carb but it's low calorie and low fat, or low-carb / high fat which still counts as low overall calorie, or low-cal or fasting which all have as their lowest common denominator: low overall calories per day.

That is the crux of my objection to the idea of "just take more insulin and eat whatever you want". Eating high calorie, high-fat, high-carb meals isn't healthy, in general, for anyone, let alone diabetics. The data on that type of junk-food lifestyle is overwhelming and this is not really up for subjective opinion or debate at this point, I believe. I just find it really disappointing to read this kind of thing for type 1s here. I mean, seriously.

 

[azure]

Where did I mention eating an entire pizza and French fries?? I suggested early on in this thread that the OP should find her own 'sweet spot' in relation to carbs. I also mentioned "within reason, of course".

The choice isn't no carbs or truckloads of carbs. As with most things, the answer is somewhere in between the two extremes.

Your post contains a number of non sequiturs. Yes, IR means you need more insulin (and possibly Metformin) but you've assumed eating carbs is the cause of this IR. In fact, LCHF can detrimentally affect insulin sensitivity.

Here's a link for you:

https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/...betes-and-40-marathons-for-awareness-262610/#

But there are numerous similar stories online - that is, LCHF causing insulin resistance in some Type 1s.

 

[azure]

P.S this is the section for people eating carbs. The 'special' sections are the Low Carb forum here and the Keto one.

Edited to also add that that must be a large pizza slice above : D Lol! Half - yes, half - a branded thin crust pizza has 40g carbs. I ate one the other week (one half, that is) and my BS was fine, both shortly after,later that evening, during the night, and the next morning.

 

[tim2000s]

High insulin doses, whether endogenous or exogenous, cause insulin resistance. We can't ignore that fact.

Meaning if you eat high calorie meals and take more and more insulin to maintain stable sugars, you will eventually get IR, caused by weight gain (insulin literally makes you gain weight, by converting glucose to fat). I suggest people read Dr Jason Fung's blog posts on the subject of what causes IR: high calorie diets.

I checked on the recommended diets section for this website, btw Azure, and I saw no subforum for high-calorie + high-carb + high-fat diets, which is what eating pizza and french fries qualifies as.

A single slice of pizza has these nutritional values (taken from google):

Nutrition Facts
Pizza, 14" regular crust
Amount Per 1 slice (107 g)
Calories 285
% Daily Value*
Total Fat 10 g 15%
Saturated fat 4.8 g 24%
Polyunsaturated fat 1.8 g
Monounsaturated fat 2.8 g
Trans fat 0.3 g
Cholesterol 18.2 mg 6%
Sodium 639.9 mg 26%
Potassium 184 mg 5%
Total Carbohydrate 36 g 12%
Dietary fiber 2.5 g 10%
Sugar 3.8 g
Protein 12 g 24%

So pardon me when I see advice on a type 1 thread suggesting that eating an entire pizza is perfectly acceptable diet choice for other type 1 diabetics, so long as enough insulin is taken, I have to shake my head and call a red flag on that one.

There is no suggested diet that says eating high-fat, high-carb AND high-calorie foods are good for even healthy people, let alone a type 1 or type 2 diabetic. That's absurd.

You can go vegetarian which isn't necessarily low carb but it's low calorie and low fat, or low-carb / high fat which still counts as low overall calorie, or low-cal or fasting which all have as their lowest common denominator: low overall calories per day.

That is the crux of my objection to the idea of "just take more insulin and eat whatever you want". Eating high calorie, high-fat, high-carb meals isn't healthy, in general, for anyone, let alone diabetics. The data on that type of junk-food lifestyle is overwhelming and this is not really up for subjective opinion or debate at this point, I believe. I just find it really disappointing to read this kind of thing for type 1s here. I mean, seriously.

I'm not sure why you think that is what is being promoted here either @Hoping4Cure? Sure, in this topic people have been told that there is not only one way, but likewise, anyone deciding that eating pizza all the time is the right way is also on a hiding to nothing. As with most cases, it's possible to make a choice. And part of that choice can be, on occasion, to go out and eat a whole pizza. That's not suggesting it's what their diet should consist of entirely, just that from time to time, it's okay.

 

[TheBigNewt]

IR is Type 2 not Type 1. Pizza used to be pretty killer for me, but now if I eat 2 slices of THIN CRUST bake-it-at-home pizza from Papa Murphy's I can get by with about 6 units of Novolog. We might do it once every couple weeks. Again moderation is the key, not being radical about it.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

The message some people are giving on this thread is "Eat as many carbs as you like and just take more insulin if necessary".

The problem with that is that the average diet contains a huge amount of sugar (40 teaspoons a day) and a huge amount of carbs.
It is worth watching the film "Carb Loaded".

 

[Jaylee]

IR is Type 2 not Type 1. Pizza used to be pretty killer for me, but now if I eat 2 slices of THIN CRUST bake-it-at-home pizza from Papa Murphy's I can get by with about 6 units of Novolog. We might do it once every couple weeks. Again moderation is the key, not being radical about it.

Lol, hats off to you Sir! not as often as yourself's. (Couple of months. If that?) But after a gig? If I'm feeling "rock & roll" with the wife. (For a bit of "normality.") I'll share a stone baked 45gs? Bolus for it. & with the help of some vody & Dcoke manage to sustain a decent line BS wise through the night chatting, and avoid a morning liver dump..
I personally feel that modern insulins are not evolved enough to manage the complexity of certain carbs.. Speaking from an MDI point of veiw...

I class my self on the whole a "low carber".. Newt, you should come round my place for a drink sometime? & a pizza. I've put the fast acting carby stuff in a "Saw" style trap? In a "I want to play a game" (in a deep gravely voice.) whilst hypo puzzle...
Seriously. You'll have a great night in my needle pit.

I feel that @Cliodb needs to find her own point of reference from her HCPs & find a way from that to find her own path...

Being newly diagnosed is hassle enough.!?!

 

[zand]

IR is Type 2 not Type 1. .

Some T1s can be IR too though?

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/type-1s-with-insulin-resistance-anyone.113543/#post-1339920

 

[azure]

The message some people are giving on this thread is "Eat as many carbs as you like and just take more insulin if necessary".

The problem with that is that the average diet contains a huge amount of sugar (40 teaspoons a day) and a huge amount of carbs.
It is worth watching the film "Carb Loaded".

No, they're not - and neither is the OP. Saying somebody doesn't have to eat low carb isn't the same as saying they should eat vast amounts of carbs, and nobody here has suggested that the OP or any other Type 1 eat a poor diet or lots of sugar.

No wonder so many Type 1s decide not to continue to post here after the amount of unwanted **** they have to put up with. Eat what you want and allow others to do the same.

This is a Type 1 thread about a newly diagnosed Type 1 asking for dietary advice from other Type 1s, not for propaganda and food demonising.

 

[noblehead]

You wouldn't manage peanut allergies by eating plenty of peanuts and managing your condition with an epipen would you?

You cannot compare a peanut allergy with eating carbs, a severe allergy to peanut oil can result in anaphylactic shock, by any stretch of the imagination a type 1 (who carb counts, knows their I:C ratio and gets their bolus timing right) won't suffer breathlessness, a swollen throat, drop in bp or lose consciousness as someone would with a severe peanut allergy.

Appreciate you need to get the very low-carb message across but using the above analogy is wholly inappropriate and doesn't take into consideration what peanut suffers have to endure.

That is the crux of my objection to the idea of "just take more insulin and eat whatever you want". Eating high calorie, high-fat, high-carb meals isn't healthy, in general, for anyone, let alone diabetics.

That we can agree on @Hoping4Cure , very few if any members would endorse such a diet but such meals can be eaten as an occasional treat, I don't care much for pizza but will have the occasional Chinese/Indian Takeaway or Fish & Chips.

What you need to understand is members here follow various diets and not just low-carb, but even those who do low-carb eat various amounts, some eat <20g a day where as others are <100g, there's no right and no wrong and it's all about finding a balance where you maintain good bg levels and enjoy what you eat.

 

[Juicyj]

@Hoping4Cure Please consider the op's original question in this thread, they are newly diagnosed, antagonising other members with your views without showing compassion for theirs, means you are breaking forum rules, please consider your responses carefully.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

I am trying to help them, to avoid going down the same dangerous and reckless lifestyle that I lived by in my 20s, thanks to my doctors telling me just to take more insulin. This caused me untold suffering. I've written on this forum before about how many hypos I used to get due to a high-carb diet in my youth, it nearly killed me THREE TIMES. I had severe, sudden blackouts due to exercising and my insulin-to-carb ratio would change mid-workout and my IOB hammered me into the ground. I woke up in the hospital from comas due to insulin OD. I am trying to help people not go through that. And the root cause of that suffering is listening to, frankly, poor advice that it's OK to just jam vast amounts of insulin into yourself and keep on eating super high calorie meals as if you weren't diabetic and nothing was wrong. This is reckless.

 

[Juicyj]

Advice is welcome @Hoping4Cure however please remember that each one of us finds our own unique way to manage our conditions, what works for me may not work for another, we all have different requirements, lifestyles and insulin requirements, yes knowledge is power but only by understanding how our bodies react can we truly establish what works and how to manage. No one here is advocating eating a high carb diet and taking high doses of insulin, members are simply advising that it is possible to eat carbs and that by taking the correct insulin they can manage this.

Sorry to hear your experiences of when you were younger were so bad, this isn't the same for everyone though, your experiences are yours, however here the op is interested in knowing more and by giving advice based on experience we hope they can take what they feel is right and apply it to their life, showing compassion to them and others is key to helping and supporting one another.

 

[azure]

I am trying to help them, to avoid going down the same dangerous and reckless lifestyle that I lived by in my 20s, thanks to my doctors telling me just to take more insulin. This caused me untold suffering. I've written on this forum before about how many hypos I used to get due to a high-carb diet in my youth, it nearly killed me THREE TIMES. I had severe, sudden blackouts due to exercising and my insulin-to-carb ratio would change mid-workout and my IOB hammered me into the ground. I woke up in the hospital from comas due to insulin OD. I am trying to help people not go through that. And the root cause of that suffering is listening to, frankly, poor advice that it's OK to just jam vast amounts of insulin into yourself and keep on eating super high calorie meals as if you weren't diabetic and nothing was wrong. This is reckless.

Your experience is yours alone. Just because you couldnt control your diabetes, doesn't mean others can't.

You've been repeatedly asked not to persist in derailing this thread - and yet you continue.

 

[kokhongw]

such meals can be eaten as an occasional treat, I don't care much for pizza but will have the occasional Chinese/Indian Takeaway or Fish & Chips.

Therein lies the problem...we are conditioned to see such meals as "treats" rather than how metabolically challenging and punishing it may actually be...

 

[TheBigNewt]

Your experience is yours alone. Just because you couldnt control your diabetes, doesn't mean others can't.

You've been repeatedly asked not to persist in derailing this thread - and yet you continue.

Then why don't you close the thread if you feel it's been hijacked?

 

[DCUKMod]

This thread is being locked as it has gone way beyond it's original purpose.

Apologies, Cliodb.