why dose diet matter ?

[Hoping4Cure]

I discovered the same as someone else mentioned. I have had a few carb free meals and straight away I still needed insulin to cover the protein.

Yes, but what was the fat content? If you switch to ketogenic diet and eat very low amounts of carbs, with those being complex carbs, then it's possible that excess protein, that your body doesn't really need, (unless you're a bodybuilder but even they overdo it) will get converted to sugar through gluconeogenesis.

This is of course why even with keto diets you still need insulin to live. (but much fewer units a day)

The trick for type 1s is the same as for type 2s: don't pour fuel on the fire.

Don't eat more calories than you need. Being thin IS good for you, healthier. (there are countless research links even on this very website showing that and giving that advice to lose weight and cut carbs).

Getting your daily energy from fats instead of carbs is the right thing to do. It gives you more stable energy and makes your mind sharper too. If people want to eat carbs, they need to be honest why they're doing it: it's not for their health, it's because carbs are sugar and sugar tastes yummy. Rationalizing this decision that because one can take more insulin and cheat assumes that this type of diet is healthy for non-diabetes as well. No! This is how they become diabetic, by following this type of "eat anything you want" dietary advice.

I find it reckless and irresponsible to read this kind of advice on a diabetes website. It even contradicts scientific research coming out every day published here. I mean, seriously, it's like, do people even read the news section of this website? Or its twitter feed?

Diabetes.co.uk is FULL of low-carb advice resulting from mountains of supporting facts and evidence with which to back it up. If it weren't, I wouldn't have signed up here.

 

[azure]

No, it's the right thing to do in your opinion - a very different thing.

This forum supports a wide variety of diets.

Please can this thread now get back on track. @Hoping4Cure If you - or anyone else - wishes to continue the discussion or start a new diet-related discussion, please start a new thread.

 

[noblehead]

Eating a lot of carbs then taking a lot of insulin to cover it is like putting your foot on the gas and the breaks at the same time and trying to steer your car safely. No, it's dangerous and reckless.

Your mistakenly assuming that all type 1's take huge amounts of insulin when consuming carbs @Hoping4Cure , typically my main meals are 50-60g of carbs and I inject 5-6u accordingly, for a protein based meal of eggs I'd need 4u (a lot more if it has a high-fat content).

You seem to be very self-righteous believing that your always right and everyone else is wrong (your comment earlier in the thread where you say :''The advice in this thread is, I believe, poor''), the advice isn't poor it's just a different view/approach to your own on managing type 1 diabetes, even ardent followers of Dr Bernstein struggle to follow his diet completely and don't agree with everything he says, something you need to bear in mind next time your on your high-horse

 

[Hoping4Cure]

I just don't agree - whether I eat a stir fry (15g~) requiring a small bolus dose or a full pizza (220g~) needing a large split bolus, just because I've had many times more bolus units for the pizza doesn't make me want to have another shortly after. Provided the ratio is right, the bolus is taken at the correct time(s) does not guarantee that my glucose is going to shoot through the roof either.

For a laugh, and if you have a continuous glucose monitor, try to compare the phase 1 response of pre-bolusing both a green veggy-based low carb stir-fry (no sugary sauces either) with a full pizza, and then calculate the amount of time your sugars are extruded. You can't just look at endpoints, but the area under the entire graph.

Even non-diabetics get excursions from pizzas, and is in fact these very excursions requiring huge amounts of insulin to be either naturally produced or injected, which cause and exacerbate insulin resistance, causing type 2 diabetes in the first place! There's even evidence now that type 1 could be caused by gut dysbiosis, and that's a largely food driven. With food being the major factor.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

No, it's the right thing to do in your opinion - a very different thing.

No, it's not my opinion, it's scientific fact that higher carb intake results in worse blood sugar controls. See the link I shared. (from this very website).

 

[TheBigNewt]

Increased insulin injections exacerbates the destructive cycle of insulin resistance and weight gain, which affects type 1s as well. On top of hypos, higher variance, excursions. Many type 1s end up with some kind of insulin resistance, typically as they get older. This is a natural consequence of not only insulin overdose, but appropriate insulin doses as well. Covering excess carbs that the body doesn't need to live will result in the exact same thing as it does for type 2 diabetes: obesity and IR, complications, etc.

Yeah well you can do whatever "unusual" diet you want for whatever reason you want to do it. I take a total of 40 units of insulin/day. And I eat carbs with most every meal. The OP was asking if he could still eat carbs, and the answer is YES. And all carbs are not the same as pure glucose/sugar either. You can spin it any way you want, but that's just not true. Try eating some carrots next time you get low and let me know how that works for you lol.

 

[Bon83]

Yes, but what was the fat content? If you switch to ketogenic diet and eat very low amounts of carbs, with those being complex carbs, then it's possible that excess protein, that your body doesn't really need, (unless you're a bodybuilder but even they overdo it) will get converted to sugar through gluconeogenesis.

This is of course why even with keto diets you still need insulin to live. (but much fewer units a day)

The trick for type 1s is the same as for type 2s: don't pour fuel on the fire.

Don't eat more calories than you need. Being thin IS good for you, healthier. (there are countless research links even on this very website showing that and giving that advice to lose weight and cut carbs).

Getting your daily energy from fats instead of carbs is the right thing to do. It gives you more stable energy and makes your mind sharper too. If people want to eat carbs, they need to be honest why they're doing it: it's not for their health, it's because carbs are sugar and sugar tastes yummy. Rationalizing this decision that because one can take more insulin and cheat assumes that this type of diet is healthy for non-diabetes as well. No! This is how they become diabetic, by following this type of "eat anything you want" dietary advice.

I find it reckless and irresponsible to read this kind of advice on a diabetes website. It even contradicts scientific research coming out every day published here. I mean, seriously, it's like, do people even read the news section of this website? Or its twitter feed?

Diabetes.co.uk is FULL of low-carb advice resulting from mountains of supporting facts and evidence with which to back it up. If it weren't, I wouldn't have signed up here.

I'll give Dr bernsteins book a read, I've read lots of other books so I will get it.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

Please can this thread now get back on track. @Hoping4Cure If you - or anyone else - wishes to continue the discussion or start a new diet-related discussion, please start a new thread.

The OP asked a specific question about their diet, namely if they can eat anything they want to and get away with it just by taking more insulin. You cannot answer this question without discussing how insulin works, why it's needed, and how diet factors in.

 

[azure]

No, it's not my opinion, it's scientific fact that higher carb intake results in worse blood sugar controls. See the link I shared. (from this very website).

And see the many other links that prove LCHF isn't necessary or even desirable.

It's your choice what diet you follow, but it doesn't follow that everyone else needs or wants to follow the same diet.

My BMI is around 19, my Hba1C is 33 and I can assure you that I detest spikes and take very good care to make sure I don't spike after meals. I don't have a CGM, but I do regularly test every 15 mins after meals for my own reassurance and my resukts are in range.

Yes, the gut is implicated as a possible cause of Type 1 but that's nothing to do with carbs. Demonising food is rarely a good idea.

I repeat - this forum supports all diets.

The OP asked if she had to low carb. The answer is that she doesn't.

 

[azure]

The OP asked a specific question about their diet, namely if they can eat anything they want to and get away with it just by taking more insulin. You cannot answer this question without discussing how insulin works, why it's needed, and how diet factors in.

Then start your own thread and realise that it IS possible for many Type 1s to eat carbs and match their insulin appropriately.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

If this forum keeps telling type 1s they should eat whatever they want I'm done here. That is reckless and dangerous.

It goes against ALL the scientific literature I've read, including that which this website publishes on a daily basis.

People are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. Scientific studies trumps personal opinions, and as soon as I see any studies telling us high insulin daily dose resulting from high carb diets are healthy, I will change my opinion accordingly. I go by what the science says, not by comforting delusions that we can act and eat whatever we want like we're normal and not suffer any consequences. That is false.

 

[Hoping4Cure]

Then start your own thread and realise that it IS possible for many Type 1s to eat carbs and match their insulin appropriately.

Nearly every single thread on this website is a variant of this same basic question: what to eat?

The same questions merit the same answers.

 

[azure]

If this forum keeps telling type 1s they should eat whatever they want I'm done here. That is reckless and dangerous.

It goes against ALL the scientific literature I've read, including that which this website publishes on a daily basis.

People are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. Scientific studies trumps personal opinions, and as soon as I see any studies telling us high insulin daily dose resulting from high carb diets are healthy, I will change my opinion accordingly. I go by what the science says, not by comforting delusions that we can act and eat whatever we want like we're normal and not suffer any consequences. That is false.

Then perhaps you need to step outside your echo chamber and read views opposite to your own.

I do - regularly - and revise my opinion if necessary.

 

[pleinster]

While I very loosely agree that carbohydrates are to be avoided by those Type 2s who are looking to reduce blood sugar levels purely through diet (and I have personally, like many others here, gained a reasonable control over my levels by eating a very low carb diet), it is also very clear that for those who choose to eat more carbohydrates than I do...it is certainly well achievable to reduce and maintain reasonably low levels if the balancing act with insulin or standard medications is dealt with. Whatever evidence there is, whatever research indicates (and most scientific "conclusion" is theory being challenged and/or re-interpreted over and over again), we are all variations on a very curvy theme..and we make different choices.

Having spent years and years in the study of what might be called academic subjects, I know that opinion is not knowledge and that we cannot all be right. I have long held the view that people are not entitled to their opinion if they are simply clinging to it in order to have a position. To be very basic about it, if someone thinks that I am made of cheese - they are wrong (I think). That said, @Hoping4Cure, I don't feel the need to argue about it if I think I am trying to convince a brick wall. What's the point mate? We can't convince all of the people just because we think we are right (even with armfuls of evidence). It's not how humans operate. If it was, there would be no nuclear deterrents, better distribution of wealth, amazingly well-funded cancer research, etc etc. I resigned long ago to keep certain views to myself...rather than "save the world from itself". No offence intended - I am just saying...let people be different to you in how they interpret life. I also know..I can be wrong (just not often )...and that there are a hell of a lot of things I know nothing about at all. Anyway...just saying.



Take care.

 

[Enclave]

hello , im a newly diagnosed type 1 and am confused as to why diet matters so much in a diabetic compared to a non diabetic (we should all try to have a good diet).from reading on the internet it seems to me that a lot of diabetics try to avoid a huge range of foods,I get that foods high in sugar must be avoided but why cant i eat the same carbs as i did before and just take the extra insulin need for them ?

Hi @Cliodb , as you will see there are different options due to different experiences. I am a T2 so not able to answer your question from experience, however as you can see from your replies here, there are different ways to approach your diabetes. The most important thing for you to do is make a good line of communication between you and your local diabetic team that is going to be able to advise you as your knowledge and requirements change. Do let us know how your getting on.

 

[Dillinger]

Diabetes whether Type 1, Type 2 or anywhere in between and beyond is at its most basic an inability to properly metabolise glucose.

All carbohydrates turn to glucose, so for Type 1 diabetics the glycemic index isn't really relevant. One does not need to eat any glucose (i.e the minimum daily requirements for glucose is 0 grams). There are no deficiency diseases for carbohydrates.

If you want to reduce the impact of this failure to control glucose metabolism reduce your consumption of carbohydrates as much as possible even to 0 grams if you want (although that would be very difficult to do in the real world).

Eating 'moderately' or a 'normal diet' really does not work for diabetics; the annual diabetes audit routinely has 93% of Type 1 diabetics failing to get an HbA1c below 40 (6.5%).

Anecdotally the only group who routinely beat those targets are the low-carbers.

It's down to you of course but one of the many strange things about diabetes is that you will never be offered dietary advice in the above terms even though every single thing I've said above is correct. The best you can expect is a HCP pompously saying 'well if it works for you I don't object.'

Best

Dillinger

 

[tim2000s]

Anecdotally the only group who routinely beat those targets are the low-carbers.

And the closed loopers

 

[CathP]

And the closed loopers

Haha, the day someone builds my daughter a closed loop system is the day she'll eat (non-almond flour) cake!

 

[TheBigNewt]

Eating 'moderately' or a 'normal diet' really does not work for diabetics; the annual diabetes audit routinely has 93% of Type 1 diabetics failing to get an HbA1c below 40 (6.5%).

Anecdotally the only group who routinely beat those targets are the low-carbers.

It's down to you of course but one of the many strange things about diabetes is that you will never be offered dietary advice in the above terms even though every single thing I've said above is correct. The best you can expect is a HCP pompously saying 'well if it works for you I don't object.'

Best

Dillinger

I've never had an A1C has high as 6.5 in 32 years as Type 1 taking insulin. Never did low carbs either. So it is indeed possible. And by eliminating most/all carbs one has to eliminate all fruits and many/most vegetables from their diet. I'm not convinced that elimination those foods is advantageous. Sure, cutting out stuff like French fries and white pasta and bread makes sense. We eat paleo 3 night week. Even paleo meals have 25-30g carbs. Salads have carbs too. The whole "all carbs are evil" for Type 1 diabetics has a tone of weirdness in it IMO. And without much (if any) scientific basis to it. There's a reason insulin is used.

 

[Resurgam]

But there are loads of veges and fruits low carbers can eat - and do eat and can either lose weight and/or control blood glucose - it would take some time to list them, so I won't - eating them along with the other things on my menu has made me feel great, and younger too.
I could say that low carb is restricted, but only in the sense of allowing the good stuff onto our menu and banning the boring stodge.