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why i dont low carb

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by mullaneder, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. mullaneder

    mullaneder · Well-Known Member

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    hi this thread is a reply to thirsty wondering what was the reason that i dont low carb.firstly i dont want to.secondly i dont need to.the main reason is that i have enough foods restricted without adding to that list.plus a lot of the foods that i love have too many carbs for me to be called a low carber.also i must add that i dont go around trying to eat as much carbs as i can get.i have cut down on the amount of carbs i eat,but i also have cut down on portion sizes too.i try to eat a healthy diet.i have looked at the posts on the low carb forum and the diet doesnt appeal to me.i am not so small minded that i am ruling out never lowering my carb intake but honestly i hope that i never have to.i am actually enjoying my diet at the moment .i am just 2 lbs off losing 4 stone.i cant remember the last reading over 6 and thats testing twice a day.i really respect the results that the low carbers get but mine arent bad either and thats good enough fo me. :D :D

    dermot
     
  2. iHs

    iHs · Well-Known Member

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    Like you Dermot, I also don't feel the need to low carb. I try to live my life with diabetes in as normal a fashion as possible. I don't like to make an issue of the fact that I inject insulin but then I would say that cos I've been diabetic for so long. Would be great if we didn't have to test our bg as often as we all do but that's MDI for you :roll:

    I eat more or less about 6 times a day but not loads of carb as I have altered my bolus insulin to suit the amount of carb that I need to eat to keep my weight stable and my bg levels all ok. I try to get my bg levels to be somewhere between 2 and 7 at all times by using carbohydrate as my friend. I don't always do it though as I am human and let go every now and again of trying to keep perfect control day in, day out.

    Carbohydrate should never be regarded as an enemy, it's how you eat it that's the problem.
     
  3. bunty

    bunty · Well-Known Member

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    I dont low-carb because i want to live my life with diabetes in as near 'normal' a way as possible.

    Without carbs i'm hungry all the time and as i'm allergic to all nuts and to soya, my options are already severely limited.

    Instead, i switched to far smaller portions and only eat 'brown carbs' and unprocessed carbs and so far have kept my HbA1c results to the mid-5s.

    The low carb approach obviously works for some and i believe that *reduced carbs* is certainly a message all diabetics should be told of and encouraged to review their own eatings, switching to the brown carbs in favour of white processed ones.

    Any extreme view straight away puts me off so i hope i'm not going to come across as an extreme moderate carb eater!

    LOL!

    bunty
     
  4. kegstore

    kegstore · Well-Known Member

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    This thread should be "stickied" already IMHO, and there's only been 3 posts. Come on Mods/Admin! Having said elsewhere I don't feel the need to constantly shout about my diet, I'm going to park that comment for this one thread.

    I don't low carb because I don't need to either. I'm fortunate to have occasional use of CGM, so can monitor my body's reaction to different foods, and can honestly report that my blood sugar normally stays flat throughout the pre-meal, meal, post-meal period. It's taken a few mistakes along the way to get to this stage, but that's how you learn?

    I'd be surprised if ANY diabetic can honestly say they haven't changed their diet to some extent since diagnosis - reducing the amount of carbs you eat makes good sense medically, and it's easier to manage insulin when you do.

    Some people have commented on my current health status along the lines of "you're no shining example to other diabetics", but my response to that goes something like "I wonder how much worse I would be if I hadn't taken the care I have over the years". The point being that you do what you can, and what seems right at the time.

    I have huge respect for people who do choose low carb and get good results, some of their blood numbers are remarkable. I have considerably less respect for those who believe it's the only way, and are intent on indoctrinating anyone who can be bothered to listen. I hate the comment "we're all different" - my eyes roll whenever I see it posted - but diet is one area where it's absolutely true.

    And finally, what is the need to be labelled as one thing or another all about anyway?
     
  5. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Well done Dermot for starting this Topic. Very informative. Thanks to to the other posters who have contributed so far. Hope we get some more. I for one am interested in seeing how other people cope with their Diabetes.

    Keg. Your comments have been noted and if in future anything needs doing then Admin?Mods will make that decision.

    Ken.
     
  6. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    I'll start with saying I have an insulin pump. I have excellent blood glucose levels, (between 4.9% and 5.6%) and need to take very little insulin, my last weeks average was 23.97u. My major reason for having a pump is to be able to reduce insulin on a temporary basis for rather erratic exercise patterns. I am also in complete possesion of my mental faculties.
    (Its sad but feel a need to clarify that since a posting on another thread makes a rather insulting claim that that people who post alternatives to low carbing (actually he put it as 'vehement anti low posters' )
    "" common characteristics of these posters seem to be high amounts of injected insulin, insulin pumps, dangerously high HbA1c levels and complications "

    I don't low carb,nor do I high carb, I try to eat a balanced diet. By low carbing, I mean reducing to the very low intakes of carbs, such as those advocated by Bernstein, Atkins , Sears and Eades. I feel quite strongly that it is neither necessary nor healthy to attempt to reduce levels to these tiny amounts. I perfectly accept that high gi carbs can raise blood glucose levels unacceptably but I also believe that a balanced diet is good for everyone (not withstanding the odd Inuit, though I don't think many post on here) .
    No particular order why I don't think its a good thing.
    1) Most low carb diets seem to be very low in fibre (NB not all veg is that high!) Including some fruits , wholegrains and legumes helps to boost levels. Fibre helps your digestive system to process food and absorb nutrients, it may be protective against bowel cancer, http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/120503bowel.htm
    and diverticulitis. Soluble fibre in gums and pectin( eg in oats, legumes, apples) may help lower cholesterol and control blood glucose fluctuations.
    2) Low percentage carb diets must therefore be either high protein or high fat.
    High protein diets can cause deterioration in people who have reduced kidney function. Many people when diagnosed as type 2 or type 1 as older people already have reduced function. Many don't seem to be aware of what their level of kidney function is. At age 57, my own was 65, as I have no protein in my urine it isn't considered to be kidney disease . If or when it goes below 60 it would be. It will inevitably deteriorate as I get older anyway. It seens to be sensible not to stress them more.
    http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/03.13/09-kidney.html

    High fat diets can be high in saturated fats, certainly ones where cream, cheese and red meat are eaten in quantity. I won't go into the arguments here, but most cardiologists or researchers into CVD warn against too much saturated fat. I would rather take my advice from them rather than highly publised blogs or yet scientific papers published in certain journals. Replacing saturated fat with 'good' fats (plus exercise and good glucose levels) appear to have reduced the amount of plaque in my arteries over just a year, five years on the arteriologist seems to have far less concerns.

    3)Low carb diets, at least some of those cited on here when diets were analysed seemed to be low in calcium. On top of this diets high in protein increase the demand placed on the kidney to process the protein thus causing abnormal excretion of calcium. Calcium absorption is particularly important in post menopausal women and for all during the formation of peak bone density. (though recently I had a bonescan and have good bone density so I'm lucky, others might not be in the same situation)
    4)We're often told that diabetes is a disorder of carbohydrate metabolism, well thats not the 'offical'
    definition.'The term diabetes mellitus describes a metabolic disorder of multiple aetiology characterized by chronic hyperglycaemia with disturbances of carbohydrate, fat and protein metabolism resulting .........' (WHO). Personally I know that protein converts very readilly to glucose in my blood stream, so much so there is very little difference in the amount of insulin I need for a low carb, high protein meal. Too much fat causes unpredictable digestion, causing early hypos and later rises is blood glucose levels when the insulin has gone past its peak. Another reason for a balanced, and regular diet.

    There are alternatives to low carbing that work. There is both scientific evidence and also anectdotal from posters on this forum (sadly many have felt it necessary to stop posting recently)

    What works for me is a careful choice of less processed foods, home cooked , carbs including some 'wholegrain' starches and lots of veg and fruit, good fats such as oily fish,nuts and seeds,avocados, sunflower, rapeseed and olive oils, and lean protein, not too much of anything Exercise is also very important, and although I do a fair amount I have to work at, I'm not an athlete. Despite some peoples opinion a pump doesn't do it all for me, it merely helps replace (in a less than perfect way) the insulin that my body doesn't produce,
     
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  7. mullaneder

    mullaneder · Well-Known Member

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    wow phoenix what a fantastic post thanks a million :D :D

    dermot
     
  8. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant post phoenix, I wish I had a fraction of your knowledge and way with words.


    I am defiantly not a 'vehement anti low poster' :lol: But do not low carb myself. What I tend to do is low everything in as much as I have drastically reduced the amount of food I consume, when first diagnosed in March I started to use a smaller plate for my diner/evening meal, I cut back on the carbs I was eating but also cut back on the meat/protein as well. I have probably increased the amount of fruit and vegetables in my diet and now eat salad with most meals.

    I still eat cereal for breakfast but only 30grams and a small amount of semi skimmed milk, no sugar but I have not used much sugar for years so that was no hardship for me.

    Lunch usually comprises of a sandwich with Edam cheese, ham or tuna using seeded wholegrain bread or a wrap.

    Evening meals are too numerous to mention here but will invariably contain a small amount of Basmati rice or new potatoes and very occasionally pasta. I have always loved curries and Chinese food but now avoid the rich creamy curries and sweet and sour dishes I used to eat and instead choose dishes made without cream or large amounts of sugars. I have got into the habit of cooking a stir fry meal once a week which also goes down well with the wife :) lots of vegitables a chicken pad thai curry and a small amount of stir fried egg noodles (the carb part).

    I have recently read a lot about low carb diets and have come to the personal decision not to embark on one mainly because I can't see myself sticking to an almost carb free diet and if I have read this correctly if you choose a low carb high fat diet and still eat some carbs it can have the opposite effect to that desired. ie if medium amounts of carbs are eaten rather than very low amounts, then it is those that are used for 'instant' energy and the high fat content will then be stored rather than converted into glucose. If I have got this wrong then please correct me as I said I am not a vehement anti low carber and will never say never but at the moment my current regime seems to be working for me, in fact I have just got my first 3 months Hb A1c result and it has dropped from 12.6% at diagnosis (04/03/09) to 5.4% (18/06/09) and to be perfectly honest I am quite pleased with that :D

    Oh, and I've also lost 3 stone :D
     
  9. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    Well done Sid, I've never found it easy to lose weight ... one of the 'lucky' benefits of type 1 was to take off all my excess. You show how it can be done by adopting healthy eating patterns.
     
  10. Thirsty

    Thirsty · Well-Known Member

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    Dermot, thanks for starting this thread, it's exactly what I had in mind. Also, thanks to phoenix for an excellent post; I've always been concerned about the long-term effects of following a highly restricted diet. Nothing much more to add other than to repeat that the low GI approach worked wonderfully for me; significant weight loss, good control and gliclazide intake reduced by a third within months of diagnosis.

    My experience won't apply to everyone, but I'm a pretty happy, non low-carbing diabetic at the moment. :D
     
  11. Sweet3x

    Sweet3x · Well-Known Member

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    I just eat a balanced diet - it's not low, it's not high carb. I enjoy what I eat, and I intend to carry on doing so. I don't find I get as much enjoyment out of my food when I'm restricted to low-carb foods, especially when it restricts me from eating my favourite (healthy!) food.
     
  12. hazyclaire

    hazyclaire Type 1 · Member

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    I am new to this website and have never come across dibetics following a low carb diet before. I had wondered in the past when hearing about the Atkins diet whether it was something that would be suitable for type 1 diabetics. I have been doing some reading over the last few days and can see that there are obviously benefits to the low carb diet and I have considered giving it a try, but I really think I would miss my carbs as they are the staple of my diet and I enjoy them, plus it would be quite a struggle to reprogramme myself after years of making sure I ate enough carbs so as not to go hypo! Hmmm, I'm not sure I'm quite ready for it!
     
  13. HpprKM

    HpprKM · Well-Known Member

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  14. HpprKM

    HpprKM · Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes although I can eat and do eat soya products, I have a cholesterol issues so many so called low fat products are high in sugar, so recommendations from the cholesterol sources are of no use to me.
     
  15. welshtony

    welshtony Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting points made in this thread. It has caused me to re-evaluate what my current diet is.

    I had previously viewed myself as a low carb dieter, but have realised that I probably don't fit that definition, now. In the 10 months since I was diagnosed I have radically altered my diet, and cut out almost all bread, pasta, potato, cerial and grains. And I won't buy any processed food with a carb %age higher than 15.

    But I don't count my carbs, and I am conscious that my now main source of carbs may well be the regular 2-3 pints of beer I consume daily!

    With that diet, I have lost 3 stone so far (although currently on a plateau).

    I'm not yet on any medication, and on this diet have seen my HbA1c figs come down from 6.7, to 6.2, to 6.0. My cholesterol readings are now back well within the "good" range also. So it's working for me, and I don't feel hungry, and I've adapted my lifestyle to incorporate it pretty routinely. I have a slight concern that my FBGs are increasing as well as my weight having plateauxed, but I have some ideas to try and get thse back down again as well. The last two have been back in the 6s, so maybe I can keep doing it without meds for a while longer.

    I wish I could say that my BG stays constant within and after meals, but I can't. I see a 2-3 point jump after an hour, and typically a 0.5 raised level after 2 hrs. I have found some meals that don't seem to go as high, but not enough!

    I'm generally OK with the carbs = BG increase argument, so whilst I still have FBGs higher than I'd like, I'll keep targetting reducing them, but I'm not obsessive. I noted with interest that Italian pizza in Sorrento for 5 days seemed to have no discernable adverse impact on either my BGs or my weight; regrettably, I haven't managed to find an equivalent in the UK. :(
     
  16. TheTartanPimpernel

    TheTartanPimpernel · Well-Known Member

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    "main source of carbs may well be the regular 2-3 pints of beer I consume daily"

    I had to cut out similar amounts of beer three weeks ago because of the need to have high doses of antibiotics. Result is weight down 7lbs.
     
  17. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    Hi all

    I don't low carb as the past 11 years on carbs have been OK for me. I do try to eat low GI and avoid cake, sweets, puddings etc. Leaving out those things make me different enough!! My last HbA1c was 6.2 and no opathies. I have been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease but doubt I can blame that on carbs!

    I have read in another part of this site that we must avoid modern western diet and return to a natural diet. I think that I go some way towards that. For the vast majority of the world's population that diet is carb based - rice, root vegetables and cereals.

    Keep well

    Doug
     
  18. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    Welcome, I think that I try to eat very much as you do.
    Oh didn't you know history has been revised. It wasn't really bread or grain price rises that sparked revolts and revolution throughout history, perhaps it was fat :lol:

    Actually not that funny, I wrote that and will leave it in but the price of grain and rice has risen 50% in the last year, there have been deaths during protests in several places. Unfortunately in some parts of the world famine will be inevitable. And we are fortunate enough to be able to argue about the relative benefits of different types of food. :cry:
     
  19. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    Phoenix

    You are so right. We are lucky to have what we have and to be able to make the choices that we make. I have no issue with what people choose to eat. We all make choices in every part of our lives. I think we owe it to ourselves to base those decisions on the best information available. It saddens me, therefore, to see people apparently contradicting fact to justify what they do. Why would people do that?

    Doug
     
  20. Osidge

    Osidge Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    I have been corrected on my statement about the carb nature of the natural diet followed by most of the world. Apparently I should be looking back to the stone age where it was low carb (bit interestingly, low saturated fat).

    That's me told!

    Doug
     
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