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why i dont low carb

I have just posted my reasons for not choosing the very low carb option on the Food Forum thread.

Basically, it is because a diet that includes complex carbs, albeit in restricted quantities, provides a more balanced healthy diet.

If you saw the prog on TV this week, the low carb Californian diet resulted in increased "bad" cholesterol and decreased "good" cholesterol. The nutritionist said that although it was very good for a short burst of weight loss, it wasn't sustainable or healthy.

We still need a basically healthy diet, and if some medication is needed to enable us to have such a healthy diet - then so be it.
 
Doug, don't worry too much. The "stone-age diet" remains controversial, with many experts considering it a fad. I tend to agree with them.
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Thirsty, how do you manage to reply so succinctly?

I've been trying to answer so many of the points raised in the discussion in the low carb forum (which isn't strictly a low carb discusiion) that I'm in danger of writing a book but I'll give up with a shortened version of my notes :oops:

How far back do we go? I think that our ancestors ate what was easily available.

Diets of monkeys and apes are low fat, they eat leaves, fruits and flowers and seeds and some insects/termites. There is even evidence of chimpanzees using digging sticks for tubers or roots.

Paranthropus robustus was an early hominid living over 3 million years ago ( an australopithecine like 'Lucy') It had a diverse diet including fruits and nuts, sedges, grasses, seeds and perhaps even small animals. Evidence shows that it varied its diet according to season and time.

As to rudimentary processing, we have evidence of grinding stones being used on wild grains in the Middle East ( Sea of Galilee) This has been dated to 23 000 bce.

I agree about the probable low fat content of wild game.
You have only to look at the fat content of wild venison,rabbit, game birds and wild boar. I occasionally eat truly free range chicken from my neighbour. They are entirely different (much tougher and more muscular) than those sold in the supermarkets. Even in the last 30 years supermarket chickens have changed . Some tested in 1970 contained 8.6 grams of fat per 100 grams in 1970, compared with 22.8 grams in 2004. This may very well because of some of the farming practices mentioned in another post.

I think some of the arguments about farming (over there, :arrow: .... this is getting silly, but I'm not sure where to answer !!!) are derived from the US rather than Europe, though some of the farming sectors have become very industrialised. Nevertheless,the cows in the field opposite me are at the moment happily chewing the cud and getting their vit d from the sun. They are taken inside iduring the depths of winter and receive some supplements, but grass and silage are cheaper.
The milk is pasteurised. On on the whole I'd prefer that to the alternatives. In the UK even in the 1940s outbreaks of diphtheria and TB were traced to unpasteurised milk' . Most of us live in such close quarters that such diseases have the potential to spread quickly.It is true that some of the 'good bacteria' is killed along with the bad. In Europe, we do have the option choice to eat cheese made from unpasturised milk from sheep, goat and cows .

I'll stop there :D
 
phoenix said:
Thirsty, how do you manage to reply so succinctly?
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Because I'm lazy!

On a more serious note, I agree with all the points you make and would like to ask why, if agricultural products are poisoning humans as much as some would have us believe, the world's population is rapidly approaching seven billion?

(Ducks and covers.)
 
phoenix said:
As to rudimentary processing, we have evidence of grinding stones being used on wild grains in the Middle East ( Sea of Galilee) This has been dated to 23 000 bce.
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On a Ray Mears TV program he was saying that remote tribes in south america, afric and the australian aborigines have been processing grains and roots for thousands of years and that hunting game would often expend more energy than the caught game would supply, so was often reserved for celebrations. If you think about it you would need to kill a very large animal to feed a village and killing large animals is rather dangerous if you don't have an automatic weapon :lol:
 
Actually they all got together and drove the large animals over cliffs!!..........saved a fortune in automatic ammunition. :lol:
 
sugarless sue said:
Actually they all got together and drove the large animals over cliffs!!..........saved a fortune in automatic ammunition. :lol:
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And then they all abseiled down the cliffs, using mammoth guts as rope, and bravely swam out to sea to recover the protein...
 
Hey thirsty. You want to get out more man. You sound real crotchety today, what you on ? That vid thing earlier was not nice man. See it got spiked. Cool

D.
 
dipsticky, I wouldn't have posted that link had I known that some would be offended; to me, it seemed a tame, clever and rather amusing animation.

Crotchety? Never, unless I feel that people are being misled. You may not appreciate my sense of humour but, I can assure you that I don't post here with the intention of upsetting anyone, quite the opposite, in fact.
 
Hi all..........

I currently low carb and while Im a supporter I sometimes struggle. I think for me it is the best way to get shot of the weight.


However, I am really curious as to how all those on here who dont low carb have lost the weight...............What do you eat?
What do you count? ie calories etc
What time sclaes are we talking?
Anything else I need to know?


Much appreciated.............as I am all up for trying something different!

:D
 
Being a non low carber doesn't mean pigging out on loads of carbs.

I am sure that most of us still retrict carbs to a greater or lesser extent.

I follow a low glycemic load regime, which allows carbs - but only limited amounts of those with a low GL. I am losing weight very effectively - albeit slowly, but hopefully permanently - this way.

It is a healthy and sustainable way to eat.
 
I asked this question months ago - and was crucified for doing so - but again I'm seeing a trend here. This is not a comment just an observation: Low carb seems as much to do with weight loss as achieving good glycemic control?

Oh and I just remembered another reason I don't low carb: I value the state of my kidneys such as they are - I have stage 3B CKD. A diet high in protein would be a fast track to the transplant table for me.
 
Well I got snapped at too for suggestion that people with diabetes need to eat in a healthy and sustainable way, even if that does mean taking tablets or using insulin in order to do so.
 
Romola said:
Well I got snapped at too for suggestion that people with diabetes need to eat in a healthy and sustainable way, even if that does mean taking tablets or using insulin in order to do so.
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Having just come from seeing diabetic nurse at GP practice,she raised the same point about restricting carbs too far which could affect the functioning of other parts o your body in the long term. since i was DX nov 08, i have gone from 9.8 to last Hba1c of 6.3 and although i have toyed with the idea of a 'low carb'diet,having looked a what others are eating , thought it was not for me. However,i have made changes !! no more white bread, mash or risotto and turned instead to wholegrains and wholemeal.If i could eat roast for every meal i would be fine as this meal has a minimal effect on my BG's. cakes were never a problem, biscuits perhaps along with suet puds and custard.My weight has remained fairly constant 14st although i have just gained a few pounds since taking glicazide to get my fasting BG down from 8's and 9's . when i have my annual review ( 1st ) in october ,i am hoping to get under 6 and then i will look at the weight, GP says lose a stone so cut the glicazide and i said getting my BG's down was more important to me. I think i have a fairly balanced diet but have a few lagers on weekend and a couple in the week with affecting me too much. a lower carb,as opposed to a low carb diet works for me at the moment. a friend who low carbs raves about weight loss and low BG's but he is on insulin and i am on meds so it has to be diet and meds to do the trick as it is slower with less impact mentally and physically lol. over the years i have had quite physical jobs and needed lots of carbs to keep me going,now i am not so active although job is still demanding and i do not exercise as much as i should,just walk the dog before work. This forum has helped me immensely with the advice and experience of others and long may it continue with peopel posting and helping the 'newbies' , best wishes to you all,peter :D :D
 
This forum is a great place for all diabetics.When I first started lurking here I knew very little about diabetes and diets,now i have the confidence to question what I am told.
 
I don't low carb because I don't eat dairy or meat, and that leaves fairly few low carb options. I also believe that the high fat and high protein diets followed by many low carbers are not particularly healthy themselves. Protein places more stress on the kidneys, and fat is well known to cause things like coronary heart disease.

Plus, I don't want diabetes to be such a burden on my life. As a teenager, it's nice to be able to eat with my friends, and eat the same things as them! (Providing it's dairy and meat free.)

My HbA1C might not be the best at 6.8, but I still have the hormones of teenagehood, and it's basically as good as it's going to get right now.
 
I did try low-carbing for a short while but wasn't for me, has to be said. Very interested to read all thoughts and views above mentioned, in short I couldn't live without yummy granary bread! :roll: :wink: :)
 
hi there not sure if this would help , but see the Benfotaimine thread http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9454 , one Insulin user said he hypod when taking Benfotiamine so gave up Ithink . instead of taking it and adjusting his Insulin level , this version of vitamin B1 cuts blood sugar !! , diabetics who get high from Carbs may be lacking B1 , whereas ones who don't have such highs may have it available , it's worth a try
 
I tried cutting my carbs to about 100 per day, for about 2 weeks. Quickly lost about 3kg body weight. Doesn't sound much, but starting from 46kg (BMI 21) I wasn't happy to continue. Wasn't comfortable with eating loads of extra protein or fat to compensate. On about 120-150 per day my weight is steady and thanks to DAFNE HbA1c is down from around 9 to 6.6 so I must be balancing things ok. That's well below the "guideline" on food labels of around 230 carbs per day so compared to that its low, but not restricting.

When temporarily on some tablets that made me more insulin resistant and extra hungry I added some low-carb recipes, eg mixing cauliflower into mashed potato to halve the carbs. I still do that sometimes and I leave out what I call unnecessary carbs. I tend to eat fewer carbs, at certain times when I'm more insulin resistant. But I don't need to lose weight and having discovered DAFNE, after 30+ years of compulsory snacks and eating when I didn't want to, I enjoy my dietary freedom. Don't want to replace the old rules with an even more restricted diet.
 
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