Why won't we tell Diabetics the truth?

[slinkimalinki]

Interesting article

http://robbwolf.com/2017/01/05/why-wont-we-tell-diabetics-the-truth/

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Very well written. However, I believe that the reason that health care professionals don't tell type 2 diabetics the truth is that...dramatic pause....they don't know the truth! At least I hope that's the reason.

 

[Tophat1900]

Very well written. However, I believe that the reason that health care professionals don't tell type 2 diabetics the truth is that...dramatic pause....they don't know the truth! At least I hope that's the reason.

Could well be that and any dietician who doesn't peddle the health care guidelines is probably risking their job if they don't.

 

[Phoenix55]

Until someone threatens to sue with cast iron evidence that they have followed the guidelines for diet the same advice will continue to be put out. Like smoking, the evidence is slow to accumulate and there are huge vested interests involved in keeping the current status quo but one day someone, somewhere will start a ball rolling. Unfortunately it will be too late for many people but by educating the people I work with and meet informally perhaps there will start a small ground swell. Generally the body works logically; if you put carbohydrate in, the digestion breaks it down to be absorbed as sugar. Excess sugar is stored as fat which will eventually have an impact on the ability of the organs to work properly.
A thought for those who trawl the medical posts. Is there any evidence to suggest that people who were thin/underweight as children or teens are more prone to T2 diabetes if they gain weight with age?

 

[Tabbyjoolz]

Until someone threatens to sue with cast iron evidence that they have followed the guidelines for diet the same advice will continue to be put out. Like smoking, the evidence is slow to accumulate and there are huge vested interests involved in keeping the current status quo but one day someone, somewhere will start a ball rolling. Unfortunately it will be too late for many people but by educating the people I work with and meet informally perhaps there will start a small ground swell. Generally the body works logically; if you put carbohydrate in, the digestion breaks it down to be absorbed as sugar. Excess sugar is stored as fat which will eventually have an impact on the ability of the organs to work properly.
A thought for those who trawl the medical posts. Is there any evidence to suggest that people who were thin/underweight as children or teens are more prone to T2 diabetes if they gain weight with age?

Agree entirely. Your last sentence, however, really chimed with me.

 

[Phoenix55]

Thank you @Tabbyjoolz . It suddenly occurred to me as I was writing the post. As a child I was slim and positively skinny as a teen through no fault of my parents I was eating enough calories to sustain a stevedore(a heavy dock worker). If I did not lay down sufficient fat cells at that time then when older and approaching the medical overweight line my fat cells were saturated and excess bg could not be moved into them so I was becoming diabetic.

 

[Tabbyjoolz]

Same with me - healthy, naturally slim, almost skinny child who could pack away a whole larder of food at one sitting who grew into a young adult who others envied because I could eat a dinner and then chips at the end of a night out and not put on an ounce. But in my early 20s onwards I was almost hypoglycaemic if I did not eat every few hours. The doctor sent me for blood tests but nothing showed up.

I did a Fine Art degree at college so was on my feet a lot, painting, printmaking, making stuff. After I graduated I got my first office job so was sitting around more. I also decided to eat "healthily", so of course I followed the low-fat, calorie restricted mantra popular in the 1980s. My weight slowly started to creep up, and up and I would restrict food further. I was still hungry all the time.

Fast-forward through years of yo-yo dieting, despair and last August, aged 53 and weighing 15 and a half stone - the heaviest I'd ever been - I was diagnosed T2 diabetic.

 

[noblehead]

Wonder why the author of that article has some serious issues with fruits and veg,:

Last week, the following ad popped up in my Facebook newsfeed several times for “10 Foods That Are Great For Diabetics“. (This click bait article is also making the rounds on several other sites.) Here are the foods: dates, berries, garlic, flax seeds, apples, broccoli, oats, melons, kale and barley. Now, I don’t think that kale is BAD, but this list is like telling alcoholics to drink a little more orange juice or sprinkle some chia seeds into their martini and omitting the fact that they need to stop drinking booze.

Take his point about dates but what is wrong with berries, garlic, flaxseeds, apples, broccoli, oats, kale and barley, many people on the forum include these food items in their diet, Dr David Unwin (Southport GP) had most of these foods listed in his dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients and look at the success they had.

 

[azure]

Dates are high sugar but he must be eating absolutely enormous ones if 7 dates=126g carbs : D

Dates are around 6g carbs each:

https://mobile.fatsecret.co.uk/calories-nutrition/generic/date?portionid=17211&portionamount=1.000

so 7 dates would be more like 42g.

All those click bait articles are very simplified anyway, but that's a pretty innocuous list of foods if you use common sense. All the 'superfoods' tend to be plant-based in lists like those, I've noticed..

 

[Oldvatr]

Wonder why the author of that article has some serious issues with fruits and veg,:



Take his point about dates but what is wrong with berries, garlic, flaxseeds, apples, broccoli, oats, kale and barley, many people on the forum include these food items in their diet, Dr David Unwin (Southport GP) had most of these foods listed in his dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients and look at the success they had.

An interesting note that the people that have raised this objection to the said list are T1D, and those finding the article good seem to be T2D in this thread, Could it be that having the ability to bolus comes into play, and also IR?

 

[Oldvatr]

Interesting article

http://robbwolf.com/2017/01/05/why-wont-we-tell-diabetics-the-truth/

Thank you for sharing this. Normally I don't take too much notice of bloggers, but in this case I think this one is on the button. They are certainly well keto adapted and well versed in this mantra. I support what they say, based on my own experience with LCHF which has worked wonders for my condition, even over Xmas (which was NOT LC based!)

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Dates are high sugar but he must be eating absolutely enormous ones if 7 dates=126g carbs : D

Perhaps he is referring to medjool dates. That would explain the arithmetic.

https://www.fatsecret.co.uk/calories-nutrition/generic/medjool-dates

 

[Resurgam]

Wonder why the author of that article has some serious issues with fruits and veg,:
Take his point about dates but what is wrong with berries, garlic, flaxseeds, apples, broccoli, oats, kale and barley, many people on the forum include these food items in their diet, Dr David Unwin (Southport GP) had most of these foods listed in his dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients and look at the success they had.

I am eating low carb and have a meter to test the results - grain and sweet fruits made my levels rise and stay high for hours, even in small amounts.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Wonder why the author of that article has some serious issues with fruits and veg,:



Take his point about dates but what is wrong with berries, garlic, flaxseeds, apples, broccoli, oats, kale and barley, many people on the forum include these food items in their diet, Dr David Unwin (Southport GP) had most of these foods listed in his dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients and look at the success they had.

It's in the last sentence of the paragraph you quoted.

 

[bulkbiker]

Wonder why the author of that article has some serious issues with fruits and veg,:



Take his point about dates but what is wrong with berries, garlic, flaxseeds, apples, broccoli, oats, kale and barley, many people on the forum include these food items in their diet, Dr David Unwin (Southport GP) had most of these foods listed in his dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients and look at the success they had.

Do you have a link to Dr Unwin's dietary recommendations? I for one would certainly not think that apples, oats or barley would fit in my low carb diet. Firstly because of their carb content (fructose being especially bad) and secondly because they just aren't very nice to eat.. do you really prefer oats over a steak?

 

[noblehead]

An interesting note that the people that have raised this objection to the said list are T1D, and those finding the article good seem to be T2D in this thread, Could it be that having the ability to bolus comes into play, and also IR?

No being type 1 and bolusing for food makes no difference, I thought the authors critique of foods like berries/broccoli was peculiar as these are staples of many of the LC's on the forum, many say they have natural yogurt and berries for breakfast, berries are low-carb as is broccoli.

Do you have a link to Dr Unwin's dietary recommendations? I for one would certainly not think that apples, oats or barley would fit in my low carb diet. Firstly because of their carb content (fructose being especially bad) and secondly because they just aren't very nice to eat.. do you really prefer oats over a steak?

I don't have a link, but remember fruits like berries, apples & pears being mentioned and also oats.

 

[noblehead]

@bulkbiker , found the following with Dr Unwin's dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients:

http://www.diabesityinpractice.co.uk/media/content/_master/3963/files/pdf/dip3-4-131-4.pdf

 

[bulkbiker]

@bulkbiker , found the following with Dr Unwin's dietary recommendations to his type 2 patients:

http://www.diabesityinpractice.co.uk/media/content/_master/3963/files/pdf/dip3-4-131-4.pdf

ok thanks for that.. bit surprising.. but then again the "some fats in moderation" is also slightly suspect..

 

[azure]

An interesting note that the people that have raised this objection to the said list are T1D, and those finding the article good seem to be T2D in this thread, Could it be that having the ability to bolus comes into play, and also IR?

I was more concerned with his giant dates : D (thanks for the link @Avocado Sevenfold )

But, in general, I think differences of opinion are natural as 'one size doesn't fit all' for diet. We all eat what works for us I eat broccoli, berries and the other foods mentioned there too.

I know some Type 2s are ok with oats, etc, and are able to eat at the higher end of the 'up to 130g carbs' mentioned on the LC programme here, and, of course, others have to have far fewer carbs.

We're all different

 

[Oldvatr]

Edit: this was a reply to @noblehead but somehow the message quote function failed
I have to disagree on this. My understanding as a T2D with significant IR, then it is mainly my muscle cells that reject the insulin, and my fat cells that the insulin forces the excess bgl into storage, which leads to Metabolic Syndrome and NAFLD. In this respect, fructose in any form is bad for me since it can only be metabolised in the Liver, and increases IR. so for me even berries are a poor food choice. It is not just carbs we T2 have to consider. Broccoli is perhaps the only one in the list that could be considered questionable. All the others have highish carbs that some can use, but many cannot.

Please remember that there are many T1D using an LC diet, just like wot I does, and so the LC advice can be spread around a bit and remain relevant to some, We all have to adjust our diet to suit our own condition by eating to meter, and one size does not fit all.

I cannot bolus on my meds, so I cannot make any adjustment for carbs in a meal at all. but someone on MDI has this capability, I believe. So it IS relevant to the discussion. Zero carbs is a dream, not reality.