Your gut bacteria determines spike in blood sugar levels

[Oldvatr]

I believe that this was discovered while someone was researching the cause of stomach ulcers, and he proved it by using his own body to both infect himself, and then cured himself. I understand the treatment is simple and cheap, but Big Pharma doesn't do cheap does it.

 

[Lamont D]

I believe that this was discovered while someone was researching the cause of stomach ulcers, and he proved it by using his own body to both infect himself, and then cured himself. I understand the treatment is simple and cheap, but Big Pharma doesn't do cheap does it.

Yeah, it was a couple of Australian doctors and the way they proved the treatment worked which was a cocktail of antibiotics, was by one of them testing it himself and duly succeeded.
They received the Nobel prize for science.

 

[Indy51]

Yet more recent research is showing that h. pylori by itself may not be harmful - the total picture will probably be a lot more complex. The old days of identify a bacteria, then nuke it with antibiotics, are giving way to a more nuanced picture. Context with bacteria is just as important as with everything in life, it seems

 

[pleinster]

How..do people think this bacteria issue or any underlying or dormant condition relates to someone like me, who gets diabetes after a lengthy period on a particular steroid ? My renal doctors all warned me in advance of my transplant that diabetes may develop after starting treatment with said drug (ie. it..is the cause...despite other less specialised doctors saying it must have been waiting to be triggered!). I would emphasize a relatively high percentage of transplant recipients go on to develop onset diabetes and then Type 2 while on a long term (probably life long) course of Prednisolone. Any comments?

 

[LinsT]

How..do people think this bacteria issue or any underlying or dormant condition relates to someone like me, who gets diabetes after a lengthy period on a particular steroid ?

I'm certainly no expert - but I wouldn't have thought it would make any difference. The steroids stimulate the liver to produce more glucose and also interfere with the mechanisms for transporting glucose from the blood into fat and muscle cells. Once they're in your system they will do their thang. So whatever bacteria you have in your gut will probably only dictate the rate at which they are absorbed into your system if anything.

 

[MarcoRiveira]

Very interesting, i'm going to try it for this purpose.

By the way, read somewhere that yakult and the like don't really work, probiotic bacteria in such products die before they get to work.

So have to use probiotic capsules. I already took this when i was not yet diagnosed with type 2. I was on constant antibiotic treatment for another problem so i took these to help replace those that the antibiotics killed.

Probiotic capsules in general cost a lot, but i found one brand at the drugstore with prices below the rest:

http://www.optibacprobiotics.co.uk/

 

[Brunneria]

How..do people think this bacteria issue or any underlying or dormant condition relates to someone like me, who gets diabetes after a lengthy period on a particular steroid ? My renal doctors all warned me in advance of my transplant that diabetes may develop after starting treatment with said drug (ie. it..is the cause...despite other less specialised doctors saying it must have been waiting to be triggered!). I would emphasize a relatively high percentage of transplant recipients go on to develop onset diabetes and then Type 2 while on a long term (probably life long) course of Prednisolone. Any comments?

Funny you should ask that.
I am sitting here wondering how much the state of modern society's gut bacteria variation/illhealth is due to all those antibiotics we have been fed like sweets for the past 70(?) years.

I mean, time out of mind, gut bacteria populations in humans have been tailored by evolution, diet and cross contamination from lack of hygiene. Then along come antibiotics and whoops, a diabetic epidemic.
Yes, I know, there are thousands of other factors from Vit D deficiency to plastics leaching into the water supplies, to sugar and high fructose corn syrup, to takeaways on every corner and genetics. I am purely speculating here.

But bacteria are opportunists. And if you blast a digestive tract with strong antibiotics, it kills off all the bugs, both good and bad. The first bacteria to repopulate are the ones that flourish the best in the barren, convalescent environment of that particular gut. They are not necessarily the bugs that will most benefit the long term health of the gut owner.

How many courses of antibiotics have YOU (aimed at everyone, not just pleinster) had in your life? I am guessing I have had around 7, but only 1 as an adult.

 

[MarcoRiveira]

How many courses of antibiotics have YOU (aimed at everyone, not just pleinster) had in your life? I am guessing I have had around 7, but only 1 as an adult.

I've had close to a thousand, plus/minus

 

[phoenix]

Wow, just logged in because that astounded me.(hope that a thousand was exaggeration)
I don't think I had many (any) as a very young child and just twice as an adult. My children also only had them a couple of times (horrible mother, very rarely took them to the doctor when they were young .They seem to have survived)

Very interested in gut flora though, I've written before that as a non secretor with what's called the FUT 2 polymorphism,I have an altered microbiome On the positive side, there are some bugs that find it more difficult to live my intestines Norovirus and H pylori amongst them. On the negative side, coupled with other predisposing genetics, people who are non secretors are more susceptible to T1 and Crohns disease and coeliac disease.
(it's not a rare genetic variation; about 20%, with some ethnic variations are non secretors)
There may be a link(not a cause) between having a working FUT 2 gene (ie 80% of people) and insulin resistance
http://evolutionmedicine.com/2013/02/16/fucose-is-not-a-dirty-word/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22025780 : FUT2 nonsecretor status links type 1 diabetes susceptibility and resistance to infection.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0094863 Faecal Microbiota Composition in Adults Is Associated with the FUT2 Gene Determining the Secretor Status

 

[pleinster]

Funny you should ask that.
I am sitting here wondering how much the state of modern society's gut bacteria variation/illhealth is due to all those antibiotics we have been fed like sweets for the past 70(?) years.

I mean, time out of mind, gut bacteria populations in humans have been tailored by evolution, diet and cross contamination from lack of hygiene. Then along come antibiotics and whoops, a diabetic epidemic.
Yes, I know, there are thousands of other factors from Vit D deficiency to plastics leaching into the water supplies, to sugar and high fructose corn syrup, to takeaways on every corner and genetics. I am purely speculating here.

But bacteria are opportunists. And if you blast a digestive tract with strong antibiotics, it kills off all the bugs, both good and bad. The first bacteria to repopulate are the ones that flourish the best in the barren, convalescent environment of that particular gut. They are not necessarily the bugs that will most benefit the long term health of the gut owner.

How many courses of antibiotics have YOU (aimed at everyone, not just pleinster) had in your life? I am guessing I have had around 7, but only 1 as an adult.

Yup - we really do need to be asking these questions...and others - such as why would we expect drug companies to undermine their vast profits margins by including honesty in the mix? I wonder what changes might surface if our government could afford to run a national drug production service or NDS (aside from the obvious bad management at most levels)? More actual development of cures? A programme of weaning us off the surplus to requirement, needlessly addictive and ineffective meds? Improved general health in the population? Less mental health issues? Or...just a drug to make us all vote Conservative? My comment is more than a little tongue in cheek...and many drugs are of course life-saving and incredible....but still....there's lotsa brass in the business...and a hell of lot in the anti-biotic "industry" in particular. God knows what the side-effects truly are, but I'll wager there are more then written on little bits of paper stuffed into the packets. As for how many course of antibiotics I have been on (all rhetoric aside) I have lost count if I ever was counting...but a lot!

 

[LinsT]

I appreciate what you're trying to say here @pleinster, but these things have to be taken in context. Immediately prescribing antibiotics for someone with a sore throat is probably not advisable. However, someone like yourself - presumably on immunosuppressants post transplant and on steroids which cause further suppression of the immune system - is at serious risk of sepsis should an infection, however mild, set in. Surely the potential side effects of antibiotics are preferable to ending up on ICU with organ failure.
Antibiotics are getting the witch hunt treatment at the moment, but regardless of how much money the drug companies make from them we'd be in one helluva mess without em.

 

[ladybird64]

Got to agree with Lin here, same feelings towards the use of corticosteroids. I think I have probably paid the piper many times over for my use of both antibiotics (uncountable by the way but probably near to Marco's calculation) and steroids. They have had effects on my body but I know without them I wouldn't be alive. In these instances I don't think we have much choice.

PS. Just mulling this over..how much of the blame for overuse can be laid at the feet of parents who "demand" antibiotics for their child's colds, sore throats, viruses? I remember when my kids were young, a lot of my friends used to cart their kids to the docs whenever they were a bit feverish with a snotty nose, or had the coughs and colds that kids get all the time. Yes, I know docs can say no, but we also know how pushy some parents can be. Think it's shared blame on this one really..

Don't know how others feel about it?

 

[pleinster]

I appreciate what you're trying to say here @pleinster, but these things have to be taken in context. Immediately prescribing antibiotics for someone with a sore throat is probably not advisable. However, someone like yourself - presumably on immunosuppressants post transplant and on steroids which cause further suppression of the immune system - is at serious risk of sepsis should an infection, however mild, set in. Surely the potential side effects of antibiotics are preferable to ending up on ICU with organ failure.
Antibiotics are getting the witch hunt treatment at the moment, but regardless of how much money the drug companies make from them we'd be in one helluva mess without em.

Of course, yes! I am certainly not saying that we don't benefit from correct prescription of drugs! And, believe me, I don't need educated as to the issues and potential issues surrounding renal transplantation, nor do I need reminded of the possible consequences of infections on my new organ. I would have thought that went without saying. I was supporting Brunneria's point, employing some Glaswegian sarcasm and agreeing that across the board too many drugs of certain kinds are being too readily prescribed in our society (for many reasons from pressure of our GPs to our own demands due to our cultural conformity). I also included the line "My comment is more than a little tongue in cheek...and many drugs are of course life-saving and incredible" to balance what was being stated. That said, there is no way anyone will ever convince me that giant drug companies exist purely for the love of helping the sick and protection the health of nations, and I am a naturally suspicious individual. You are right - everything in context.

 

[ladybird64]

Do Glaswegians do sarcasm?

Sorry, couldn't resist, but then I am married to one!

 

[pleinster]

Got to agree with Lin here, same feelings towards the use of corticosteroids. I think I have probably paid the piper many times over for my use of both antibiotics (uncountable by the way but probably near to Marco's calculation) and steroids. They have had effects on my body but I know without them I wouldn't be alive. In these instances I don't think we have much choice.

PS. Just mulling this over..how much of the blame for overuse can be laid at the feet of parents who "demand" antibiotics for their child's colds, sore throats, viruses? I remember when my kids were young, a lot of my friends used to cart their kids to the docs whenever they were a bit feverish with a snotty nose, or had the coughs and colds that kids get all the time. Yes, I know docs can say no, but we also know how pushy some parents can be. Think it's shared blame on this one really..

Don't know how others feel about it?

Agreed. We need some for some things, and I am grateful for them. I don't like being dependent on anything really, but needs must. I also don't like being dependent on a substance if we don't need to be. I think...culturally...we have landed ourselves with problems while also finding some wonderful treatments.

 

[pleinster]

Do Glaswegians do sarcasm?

Sorry, couldn't resist, but then I am married to one!

No, never!

 

[MarcoRiveira]

Got to agree with Lin here, same feelings towards the use of corticosteroids. I think I have probably paid the piper many times over for my use of both antibiotics (uncountable by the way but probably near to Marco's calculation) and steroids. They have had effects on my body but I know without them I wouldn't be alive. In these instances I don't think we have much choice.

PS. Just mulling this over..how much of the blame for overuse can be laid at the feet of parents who "demand" antibiotics for their child's colds, sore throats, viruses? I remember when my kids were young, a lot of my friends used to cart their kids to the docs whenever they were a bit feverish with a snotty nose, or had the coughs and colds that kids get all the time. Yes, I know docs can say no, but we also know how pushy some parents can be. Think it's shared blame on this one really..

Don't know how others feel about it?

In my context, I lived in tropical countries, with large populations of both human and pests like mosquitoes, since childhood. Diseases can spread fast, in school, in church, in public places. Antibiotics are lifesavers for sure, and one can buy them at the pharmacy without prescriptions. We did learn to know when we needed them or not, it was usually when we had fevers and tough coughs that lasts long. Thankfully, antibiotics like Amoxycillin works for me until now, 52 years old.

After moving to where we are now, docs are stricter and there is a tight control on prescription drugs.

 

[MarcoRiveira]

Agreed. We need some for some things, and I am grateful for them. I don't like being dependent on anything really, but needs must. I also don't like being dependent on a substance if we don't need to be. I think...culturally...we have landed ourselves with problems while also finding some wonderful treatments.

I sure don't want to be dependent on anything as well, and hopefully i will one day not need my diabetes medicines. In the meantime, i read about long-term secondary failure for my med Diamicron MR and it seems secondary failure is low, mostly om those underweight (low BMI). So it's good news for my favorite med, i still have time to get off of them, hopefully.

Back to maintaining good gut bacteria, i think it is something good whether one has diabetes or not. I'll only take probiotics when and after i am taking antibiotics, just to rebuild their population quicker.

 

[Indy51]

Uh, by the time you test positive for H-pylori, you will abundantly notice why it is problematic

When I tested positive after an emergency visit to the gastroenterologist, I gratefully went through the process of killing it off with a cocktail of antibiotics and then several weeks of various probiotics to rebuild my system

I'm not disagreeing there, but there are also many people who have h. pylori without having any symptoms of pathology, so just having the bacteria present is not the full picture. And it's not the only cause of problems - I've lost count of the times I've been tested for it to try and explain my symptoms, yet I've always been negative.

 

[LinsT]

I don't need educated as to the issues and potential issues surrounding renal transplantation, nor do I need reminded of the possible consequences of infections on my new organ. I would have thought that went without saying.

Eeeek - please don't think I was trying to educate you @pleinster - I love reading your thoughtful, intelligent - and sarcastic - posts and its obvious you are well educated about your health. I was merely using your situation as an example xxx.
Sorry to derail the post - just wanted to make that clear