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When low carb may not be enough

DavidGrahamJones

DavidGrahamJones

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,262
Location
Hazlemere
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Newspapers
Do you ever get the feeling that having tried all the variables that seem to exist, you haven't found the right one for a happy BG.

Having done very well 3 - 4 years ago by lowering my carb intake to between 40 gms and 80 gms and getting a "well done" on my notes, last December's HbA1c was disappointing to say the least.

Using my FreeStyle Libre has at least helped me to determine that most of my meals don't affect my BG. I'm surprised at how much bread makes my BG spike so I've acted accordingly, I might even get round to making carb free bread for my Sat/Sun treat. The bread seemed to be the only thing that I could say definitely caused my BG to rise.Along with small quantities of sweet potato and squash which I put into baked veg (peppers, courgettes, onion, tomatoes, mushrooms and sometimes aubergine.

Most of my BG spikes happen at night and trying all sorts of tricks to switch off "liver dumping" but nothing seems to behave consistently. Even when my BG is stable for say 12 hours, sometimes it's over 8 and sometimes it's between 6 & 7, and nothing stands out as a cause.

My c-pep is 1.7 (low end of normal) and my insulin resistance is 2.5 (should be less than 1). I'm now taking Magnesium, chromium, and L-Glutamine which are all meant to help with insulin resistance, but not showing any positive results yet, but still less than a week in. I'm a big boy and accept that I might just need some additional medication, but I'm trying to avoid it if I can.

I was wandering if anyone has some extra thoughts. My GP is referring me to the diabetic team at the hospital because there is also a major weight problem to sort out in that I'm not eating enough to feed a rabbit never mind a man of 20 stone. I have been told I don't eat enough by my GP and I did try eating more. Net result? Gained 11 kgs, HbA1c not good, but on the bright side Total Cholesterol is only 4 and my BP is text book 120/80, just the rest of me is a mess. LOL

All the best

Graham
 
I sometimes wonder why it is that for every ounce of food we eat some of us seem to put on a pound of weight.

I have a mate who when we met thirty odd years ago was approaching 30 stone he has been type two for 15 years now though he has lost weight he sill is over 22 stone nothing he does seems to work but he is on insulin now and that has reduced his blood sugars dramatically.

the human body is not a machine and does not always follow the rules in a linear fashion, often like my friend people are what weight they are and that's it, not trying to be defeatist but maybe you should be more open to medication if it will help..

Regards John
 
It could be the potato - even in small amounts it is a very dense carb and I can't eat any at all. I substitute cauliflower for those days when I feel like pinching the roast potatoes off my husband's plate.
Just because the sweet potato, which has even more carbs than the ordinary sort, is labelled 'healthy' it doesn't mean that it is not going to affect you. I find that the same amount of carbohydrate from different sources gives me different reactions. Potato in particular causes my BG to go high and stay high for hours, right through to next day.
 
It could be excess protein affecting your overnight levels. Some of the protein not used by the body will convert to glucose, but this process takes a long time, hours in fact - maybe as much as 24 hours. I know that for me if I overdo the protein one day (all meals added together) then I will be higher through the night. In my case, not a lot higher, but it is noticeable. One meal that always does this to me is liver and bacon together, especially if my lunch was, for example, a small tin of salmon plus cheese or an egg on my salad.

Insulin users on here normally have to inject for protein.
 
Have you tried low carb ,, I was on 20g a day for around two years .. I lost 6st in the first year and now seem to be able to eat whatever I want carb wise. I am vegetarian, so don't know how meat or fish will affect the 20g of carbs. I did and do have lots of high fat foods like cream, coconut oil, olive oil, cheese .. so not hungry .. I was 21stone before I went low carb .. My weight loss has slowed down now .. If I reduce my fats the weight starts to drop again

Edit to add :: by low carb I do mean lower carbs than you are on at the moment
 
I have to stay under 20 carbs per day to stay in ketosis and keep my glycogen stores from filling up to maintain my weight. I will gain over night with anything over 20 carbs per DAY. No grains or root veggies. Little to no dairy as well. I need to keep my protein MODERATE as well. I keep saturated fat low though I do eat rare lean beef and lamb.
It took years to figure all the intricacies. My mantra now is vlc moderate protein and just enough healthy fat to satisfy.

Things that make me gain are carbs in general, over eating protein for my needs, too much fat, too many nuts or seeds, all dairy and grains. Also to include food intolerances.

It's an ever changing puzzle.
 
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40-80g carbs may simply be too much for your body, irrespective of calories, or basal metabolic weight calculations (which don't work for you, just as they don't work for me).

Since my own weight loss on LC has been stalled for a while, in spite of various dietary and supplement changes, varying exercise, fasting and low carb regimes, I can't offer any advice except to say that to avoid weight gain I have to stay below 40g carbs a day. Am currently trying around 10-20g carbs a day for a few weeks to see what happens.
 
Brunneria said:
40-80g carbs may simply be too much for your body, irrespective of calories, or basal metabolic weight calculations (which don't work for you, just as they don't work for me).

Since my own weight loss on LC has been stalled for a while, in spite of various dietary and supplement changes, varying exercise, fasting and low carb regimes, I can't offer any advice except to say that to avoid weight gain I have to stay below 40g carbs a day. Am currently trying around 10-20g carbs a day for a few weeks to see what happens.
Click to expand...

I'm exactly the same. I've stalled for 2 years now, I keep trying everything . I can maintain on 30 to 40 g carbs but cannot lose the last 2 stones.
I'm doing the same and trying a month below 20 g. I did lose a pound over the weekend but we did dance 3 nights on the trot. I'm upping my daily steps to at least 12,000 ( did 49,000 in the last 3 days)
If I cut food intake too much my body rebels and really hangs on to everything . I skipped 2 meals the other day. had a tiny amount of beef casserole for tea and gained a pound ??
I'm at a loss as to what else to try , stuck at size 16/18 .. maybe I'll just have to accept that I'll never be a 14 again. It's hard enough just to maintain !
 
I think we are all in the same boat, I have identified the following (possible) variables

Weight
BMI
Insulin Resistance
Beta Cell Damage
Getting older
What I ate
When I ate
How I slept
How long I slept
My mood
The mood of every one around me
Stress
Atmospheric Pressure
Humidity
Temperature
Cloud Base
UV Values
Pollen
Fighting infection
Hormonal changes (good luck ladies!)

Maybe whats on TV tonight has an effect - blowed if I know :D

It's like a bar of soap in the bath...................
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
Do you ever get the feeling that having tried all the variables that seem to exist, you haven't found the right one for a happy BG.

Having done very well 3 - 4 years ago by lowering my carb intake to between 40 gms and 80 gms and getting a "well done" on my notes, last December's HbA1c was disappointing to say the least.

Using my FreeStyle Libre has at least helped me to determine that most of my meals don't affect my BG. I'm surprised at how much bread makes my BG spike so I've acted accordingly, I might even get round to making carb free bread for my Sat/Sun treat. The bread seemed to be the only thing that I could say definitely caused my BG to rise.Along with small quantities of sweet potato and squash which I put into baked veg (peppers, courgettes, onion, tomatoes, mushrooms and sometimes aubergine.

Most of my BG spikes happen at night and trying all sorts of tricks to switch off "liver dumping" but nothing seems to behave consistently. Even when my BG is stable for say 12 hours, sometimes it's over 8 and sometimes it's between 6 & 7, and nothing stands out as a cause.

My c-pep is 1.7 (low end of normal) and my insulin resistance is 2.5 (should be less than 1). I'm now taking Magnesium, chromium, and L-Glutamine which are all meant to help with insulin resistance, but not showing any positive results yet, but still less than a week in. I'm a big boy and accept that I might just need some additional medication, but I'm trying to avoid it if I can.

I was wandering if anyone has some extra thoughts. My GP is referring me to the diabetic team at the hospital because there is also a major weight problem to sort out in that I'm not eating enough to feed a rabbit never mind a man of 20 stone. I have been told I don't eat enough by my GP and I did try eating more. Net result? Gained 11 kgs, HbA1c not good, but on the bright side Total Cholesterol is only 4 and my BP is text book 120/80, just the rest of me is a mess. LOL

All the best

Graham
Click to expand...

how about a little weigth lifting... ? maybe at home if you are not for fitness-centers ?

the bigger muscles lowers ones insuline resistance a bit up till 30% actually if one is serious about it , but maybe you have tried that, I am a woman but have decided that I need to have bigger muscles not matter if it is not very feminine.. well I won´t care I just want to live long and be as healthy as possible.. but most men do build muscles up much more easily than do women ...

there are many good videos on you tube that can motivate and give instructions ..

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Browse/ID72/33020920/c_1/1|category_root|Sports+and+leisure|33006346/c_2/2|33006346|Fitness+equipment|33008186/c_3/3|cat_33008186|Weights,+multi-gyms+and+strength+training|33011926/c_4/4|cat_33011926|Weights+and+dumbbells|33020920.htm
 
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Thanks one and all for replies. Lots more things for me to consider. I will find the answer eventually. I have an appointment with the diabetic team some time in the future. It will be interesting because they have been warned that I am paranoid about gaining weight, a possible outcome of something like gliclazide (if the last time is anything to go by).

Resurgam said:
It could be the potato - even in small amounts it is a very dense carb and I can't eat any at all.
Click to expand...
That had been my thought but total carb for spud and squash per my serving (1/4 packet) of about 65gms is 8 gms.
Enclave said:
Have you tried low carb ,, I was on 20g a day
Click to expand...
A fair question, most of my carbs come from vegetables and that still means at least 40 gms of carb. I see from my weight by date software that 4 oz (113gms) onion is 10gms carb. Then I 'd have to dump a whole meal for another 10 gms carb. Not impossible, but made trickier because eating more fat upsets my stomach and even flirting with a little more fat last year (proper yoghurt, cheese and cream in coffee, helped me gain 11 kgs.
Kristin251 said:
I have to stay under 20 carbs per day to stay in ketosis
Click to expand...
I seem to be able to be in ketosis at 40 gms although I've not checked recently. It was one of many tests I had done a while back.
Brunneria said:
40-80g carbs may simply be too much for your body,
Click to expand...
It's a shame that I didn't know that they can put a number to insulin resistance last year when 40gms - 80gms was just about right. It would seem, at least the GP thinks, my insulin resistance has deteriorated, I have a number for it now, just nothing to compare with.
Freema said:
how about a little weigth lifting... ?
Click to expand...
Believe it or not I'm no stranger to the gym. I was doing quite well until I had my second knee replaced last January and because of the way they hammer the prosthetic into the femur, I had the most awful sciatic pain for quite some time. I still get a lot of back ache and muscle pain in legs and arms. Still, as soon as I can my brains to work out how to put my static bike together, it will be a start.
 
walnut_face said:
I think we are all in the same boat, I have identified the following (possible) variables

Weight
BMI
Insulin Resistance
Beta Cell Damage
Getting older
What I ate
When I ate
How I slept
How long I slept
My mood
The mood of every one around me
Stress
Atmospheric Pressure
Humidity
Temperature
Cloud Base
UV Values
Pollen
Fighting infection
Hormonal changes (good luck ladies!)

Maybe whats on TV tonight has an effect - blowed if I know :D

It's like a bar of soap in the bath...................
Click to expand...

You are wrong!

It's the cold weather!
 
One of things most don't realise is that weight gain is due to high levels of insulin in your blood, hyperinsulinaemi!
This along with insulin resistance, because your pancreas is still trying, will deliver more and more insulin which creates more visceral fat and also the fat which lines your skin!

As others have suggested being in ketosis will start fat burning, if not already, the less carbs you have the less insulin released, it is a viscous circle!

The less insulin made, the more used and insulin resistance is reduced. And so on! You actually kick start the weight loss!
The best way to exercise, if you can't do the strenuous stuff, is ten to fifteen minutes after eating is to go for a walk for between 20 to 30 minutes, that helps with lowering your blood glucose levels as a bonus!
 
Lamont D said:
The best way to exercise, if you can't do the strenuous stuff, is ten to fifteen minutes after eating is to go for a walk for between 20 to 30 minutes, that helps with lowering your blood glucose levels as a bonus!
Click to expand...
Since using my FreeStyle Libre 4 weeks ago I noticed how much my BG dropped while trying to play golf every Saturday and I now try to walk round the block in the morning (about a mile). The interesting thing about eating breakfast is that my BG doesn't alter, unless I have toast, which I've now stopped. Still trying to put a static bike together, should manage tomorrow, I'm trying to finish the decorating as well as filling my shed with stuff that's been in storage for ages. Being busy is good for the mind but not always what the body needs by way of exercise, it's work in progress.
 
They had a rather cruel saying in my youth a long time before fat children and political correctness! "No one came out of Belsen fat!" Sick, but true!​
 
I have (gratefully) put a stone on just by upping my plate size. I also added in drambuiee and double cream over christmas.. a bottle.

I ate off a tea plate as my food is limited. I now eat off a small dinner plate and the food never goes over the circle in the middle...

I gained a stone for which I am grateful, but it also made me realise just how little people need to eat to gain weight or not to lose any!!

In the meantime, I have also now added in a teaspoon of cinnamon each day, turmeric, ginger and black pepper to my chai tea. This has had amazing results really for a T1. My hospital did send me an old presentation on the benefits of cinnamon for T2's as I was so shocked at my insulin needs lowering...

However. I dont think there is a magical answer to your probs. Yes, prob insulin... but I would probably just change something for 4 weeks at a time- whether its ensuring 8 hours sleep each night or joining a boot camp every sunday morning or just 10 mins of core exercises every night...

You can get things changed but it may be that your body needs a change slightly of foods, or of sleep or exercise. Only you will really find the answers...

I am not stating my gain as a thing to say ypur portion sizes are wrong etc... i have really, really struggled to eat and gain weight and every 3rd day go through hell for another 2 day, so weight gain is a rough blooming time for me.. it may just be simple things around food that needs to be tweaked..at tge end of the day though I do not see that medical persons can really give you answers to everything you have listed as concerns..

Medical people could tell me to eat certain things and I would just end in trouble...they can deal with the x y z of standard tests and standard markers, and set guidelines for meds but stuff listed wasnt all science stuff. To me some of it still could be lifestyle modifiable changes...
 
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