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Fat - is it really bad/good?

Your liver will supply whatever glucose you need. Stop for a minute and think. The last time you had a stomach bug and did not eat for a day or two did your brain die?
 
Ketosis is how most people function for at least part of each 24 hours - it is simply the state of using the body's reserves rather than what has just been digested. If you lower your intake of carbohydrate you will be in ketosis longer. You do not actually need to eat any carbohydrates at all - they are not essential for anything, but having mushrooms or tomatoes with your steak, or celery with the cream cheese does make things more interesting and you will have a natural personal level of gm of carbohydrate per day which will enable you to lose weight or control your blood glucose. I used to be able to eat 80 gm of carbs per day and as long as I did some exercise most days I lost weight I also felt great once I settled into being in ketosis most of the time. I hope that once I get back into a low carb lifestyle I can go back to those sorts of levels and start to wear all my out of date clothes - this time I will not be persuaded to eat a healthy diet as devised by the supermarket funded advisors.
 
azure said:
That is WRONG! A person can eat 80g carbs and still function. Or 100g. Or 75g. Or 110g. Or.....whatever!
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I'm not trying to upset you, but the problem I am having right now is trying to ascertain the facts. I've spent several days neck deep in the keto community on reddit and as with all things internet related it's full of opinions. Some are right, some, invariably, are wrong. From what I can gather, and not jsut from that community, there is a minimum amount of carbs asserted that is required for the body, the brain, to function. Now I don't know if that is true, or if 150g is true, or if any of this is true. All i know is what i've grown up being taught: that humans shouldn't eat sat fats, little salt, a goodly helping of carbs. What i'm hearing now turns that on its head. THis is desperately confusing.

Right now, I feel ok. I think reducing carbs is certainly the right way to go. I enjoy eating cooked breakfasts. I just don't know if this is healthy.

The whole thing with ketosis is just bizarre. Who has ever heard of this outside of these sorts of situations? They don't teach it in schools of course! To me, the people experiencing it sound like they are having the time of their life. To my GP (one of them) it's a temp thing. I don't know if it can be argued as a natural state, or how people used to live before processed foods and the like. It also sounds like an awful lot of hard work, not least of all to maintain.

Perhaps i've made a mistake by jumping in to all of this too quickly, but i was so sick of the hypo episodes. Even without an official diagnosis, the symptoms were there: low blood sugar when feeling hypo. To me that's hypoglycemia; it may be the product of a **** diet or a poor metabolism. I now think the former, but what is the right way to go.
 
ghost_whistler said:
As i start consuming a considerable amount more fat (eating more meat during the day, about 3x, frying veg for dinner in butter, starting to use olive oil), I find myself really wondering about these claims. The health orthodoxy staunchly argues, for whatever reason (and i'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, I have to say), that fats are generally bad, particularly in excess. On the other hand there are those who say they are not bad, in fact they can be good.

Now how is a lay person like me, and possibly you, ever meant to know the difference. I'm not a doctor, dietitian, nutritionist, biologist, and I certainly don't have the luxury of being able to read the myraid books on this subject - and were I to do so the science within would fall on deaf ears since i'm no expert.

How do we know the truth, before we risk gambling on our healths - even for the best of intentions!
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This 'fat is bad' started in the 40's and 50's when a scientist Ancel Keys did two studies 'The Diet Heart Hypothesis' and 'The Lipid Hypothesis'. Without getting bogged in too much detail, consider that after all these years, it's still referred to as a hypothesis, and look at what's happenned to Diabetes and obesity since then. The more you research, the more intriguing it gets:bookworm:
 
ghost_whistler said:
I think you might have misunderstood me. By cutting the bread/wheat I've cut carbs to ketogenic levels (as far as I can tell). There was no half way house.

So far I have not entered the ketogenic state, and am beginning to wonder whether I should.

The problem is that, while i respect people saying I should eat whatever feels good, there are established requirements for the body. 150g carb seems to be the minimum in order to function outside of this ketotic state.
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How am I alive!

The other question that often gets thrown at us, is it not sustainable!

It is!

There is no hard and fast rules except keeping your blood glucose levels permanently in (your) normal levels.
Being in ketosis means living in total control of your blood glucose levels. The body gets it's energy from muscle fat not carbs (glucose)

Some can be there on 100g of carbs a day, but they could 'snack' low carb meals.
Some eat a certain amount during there meal times, very low at breakfast, higher at tea time!
There is no hard and fast rules!
I would be really surprised if you had reached being in ketosis. Simply because your body would not have adjusted to your low carb diet. It takes time.

The reason why dieticians and doctors claim that we need a certain amount of glucose is because our brains need a very low amount of glucose to give the brain the energy to work. That is why Hypoglycaemia at a very low reading can be dangerous as it effects the brain, hence the coma warning at the extreme or forgetfulness in minor cases, anxiety and depression among other mental health issues are widely reported for those with consistent hypoglycaemic episodes.
But not to put the frighteners on you, the liver will provide the glucagon because of glucogenesis, when there isn't sufficient from eating.
Your body will provide, that is why I'm still alive and healthy, because it definitely doesn't need carbs to feed the brain, and I've been in ketosis for nearly three years!

And I again say, take it easy, reduce your carbs, increase your high(er) fat and ease yourself into low carb. Give it a chance to work for you!
 
ghost_whistler said:
I'm not trying to upset you, but the problem I am having right now is trying to ascertain the facts. I've spent several days neck deep in the keto community on reddit and as with all things internet related it's full of opinions. Some are right, some, invariably, are wrong. From what I can gather, and not jsut from that community, there is a minimum amount of carbs asserted that is required for the body, the brain, to function. Now I don't know if that is true, or if 150g is true, or if any of this is true. All i know is what i've grown up being taught: that humans shouldn't eat sat fats, little salt, a goodly helping of carbs. What i'm hearing now turns that on its head. THis is desperately confusing.

Right now, I feel ok. I think reducing carbs is certainly the right way to go. I enjoy eating cooked breakfasts. I just don't know if this is healthy.

The whole thing with ketosis is just bizarre. Who has ever heard of this outside of these sorts of situations? They don't teach it in schools of course! To me, the people experiencing it sound like they are having the time of their life. To my GP (one of them) it's a temp thing. I don't know if it can be argued as a natural state, or how people used to live before processed foods and the like. It also sounds like an awful lot of hard work, not least of all to maintain.

Perhaps i've made a mistake by jumping in to all of this too quickly, but i was so sick of the hypo episodes. Even without an official diagnosis, the symptoms were there: low blood sugar when feeling hypo. To me that's hypoglycemia; it may be the product of a **** diet or a poor metabolism. I now think the former, but what is the right way to go.
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I am eating low carb higher fat. some days as little as 20g some days as much as 100. I don't eat huge amounts of fat.
I'm not in Ketosis. Nor do I aim to be. I have lost 20% of my body weight and have another 20% loose. For me benefits of eating this way has been life changing. I have more energy and I'm not hungry.
For some Ketosis is necessary to enjoy the benefits but it's not for all.
 
@ghost_whistler You haven't upset me :) But I am a little,frustrated - hence the capital letters for emphasis.

The choice is not between Keto or 150g or more carbs. That is a fact. A person can happily eat, say, 90g carbs a day and be perfectly healthy.

Personally, I've read outright **** about diets on some websites, so I can understand why you're confused and uncertain.

I still stand by my earlier advice to eat a moderate and balanced diet and experiment with smaller, more frequent meals, snacks, etc, as I suggested on your other thread. I don't think,there's any need to leap into a keto diet.

As I said, firstly it might not be necessary, secondly it might mess up any tests you have done, thirdly you've not been diagnosed with anything and I do think it's unwise to self-diagnose because a medical and objective opinion is best.

A poor lifestyle can, for example, make someone feel bad, so there doesn't have to be a medical condition present to not feel right. Late nights, ****** food, not enough vitamins and minerals, etc, etc.

I don't know the full extent of your symptoms, but none of the blood sugar figures you've posted here have shown you have hypoglycaemia, in my opinion. That's why I urge caution, and that you wait to be properly evaluated.
 
The confusion seems to be between dietary carbohydrate and blood glucose.
Yes you need about a teaspoonful of glucose in your blood - but your liver is the most likely source of it, not necessarily your diet. Your brain is likely to be happier using ketones as an energy source rather than glucose - but it takes time to switch over, and in the presence of high levels of glucose the whole system breaks down anyway.
 
ghost_whistler said:
.................. I've spent several days neck deep in the keto community on reddit and as with all things internet related it's full of opinions. .........................
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Yes, opinions are like a*******s, everyone has one.

Use your own.
Ignore the loudest ones.
 
Resurgam said:
Ketosis is how most people function for at least part of each 24 hours - it is simply the state of using the body's reserves rather than what has just been digested. If you lower your intake of carbohydrate you will be in ketosis longer. You do not actually need to eat any carbohydrates at all - they are not essential for anything, but having mushrooms or tomatoes with your steak, or celery with the cream cheese does make things more interesting and you will have a natural personal level of gm of carbohydrate per day which will enable you to lose weight or control your blood glucose. I used to be able to eat 80 gm of carbs per day and as long as I did some exercise most days I lost weight I also felt great once I settled into being in ketosis most of the time. I hope that once I get back into a low carb lifestyle I can go back to those sorts of levels and start to wear all my out of date clothes - this time I will not be persuaded to eat a healthy diet as devised by the supermarket funded advisors.
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You were in ketosis while eating 80g carb? I thought 20g (give or take) was the trigger point?

It's all so confusing.
 
If you watch the videos I linked earlier in the thread it would clear up a lot of the confusion. They are not some diet guru trying to sell you something and they are not advocating a ketogenic diet.
 
chalup said:
If you watch the videos I linked earlier in the thread it would clear up a lot of the confusion. They are not some diet guru trying to sell you something and they are not advocating a ketogenic diet.
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No, but, at the end of the day, they are another bloke on the internet with an opinion, right or wrong, which is what the op is trying to avoid.
 
chalup said:
Your liver will supply whatever glucose you need. Stop for a minute and think. The last time you had a stomach bug and did not eat for a day or two did your brain die?
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Of course not (though some may disagree). But i've actually been lucky enough not to have been in that situation.

But it's more the long term consquence of a drastically lower carb intake while not being ketotic. I thought the whole purpose of the keto diet was to alter your metabolism so that the brain did adapt to running on fats, which implies that, if you don't adapt, your brain isn't running on fat and you're going to need more carbs.

And i get that people are telling me I'm wrong, but i'm just not seeing it (so perhaps my brain has stopped working!)
 
ghost_whistler said:
Of course not (though some may disagree). But i've actually been lucky enough not to have been in that situation.

But it's more the long term consquence of a drastically lower carb intake while not being ketotic. I thought the whole purpose of the keto diet was to alter your metabolism so that the brain did adapt to running on fats, which implies that, if you don't adapt, your brain isn't running on fat and you're going to need more carbs.

And i get that people are telling me I'm wrong, but i'm just not seeing it (so perhaps my brain has stopped working!)
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Your body can survive for a long time on any rubbish.

(apart from solely rabbit apparently)
 
If we go into ketosis while we sleep, even, I don't understand all the travail about ketosis induction. Surely all that's needed upon waking is to just not eat the carbs?
 
ghost_whistler said:
Of course not (though some may disagree). But i've actually been lucky enough not to have been in that situation.

But it's more the long term consquence of a drastically lower carb intake while not being ketotic. I thought the whole purpose of the keto diet was to alter your metabolism so that the brain did adapt to running on fats, which implies that, if you don't adapt, your brain isn't running on fat and you're going to need more carbs.

And i get that people are telling me I'm wrong, but i'm just not seeing it (so perhaps my brain has stopped working!)
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No, if you, like I have, fasted for more than 72 hours, how is it that my brain became more lucid and I didn't even know at that time I was in ketosis, I'd never heard of it!

You can live longer without food, than water!
You can survive, with rationing, very well!
The amount of food you actually need to live healthy, is low!
If you didn't know about ketosis, and you stopped eating spuds and bread, kept away from cereals and carried on eating the protein and vegetables you already ate, that would probably do it!
Ketosis is a label!
It's not a thing you can touch!
You are over worring about the low carbing.
You can low carb without being in ketosis!

Your metabolism needed to be altered according to you, and the best way to do it is by reducing your carbs! If it doesn't work and you feel better not doing it, then don't do it!

We have had great success as our success stories forum will reveal, most of them are never in ketosis, they have done enough reduced carb to get their blood glucose levels down and stable , which would have anybody feel very good and even healthier!

Only you know where you'll be happy!
 
Lamont D said:
No, if you, like I have, fasted for more than 72 hours, how is it that my brain became more lucid and I didn't even know at that time I was in ketosis, I'd never heard of it!

You can live longer without food, than water!
You can survive, with rationing, very well!
The amount of food you actually need to live healthy, is low!
If you didn't know about ketosis, and you stopped eating spuds and bread, kept away from cereals and carried on eating the protein and vegetables you already ate, that would probably do it!
Ketosis is a label!
It's not a thing you can touch!
You are over worring about the low carbing.
You can low carb without being in ketosis!

Your metabolism needed to be altered according to you, and the best way to do it is by reducing your carbs! If it doesn't work and you feel better not doing it, then don't do it!

We have had great success as our success stories forum will reveal, most of them are never in ketosis, they have done enough reduced carb to get their blood glucose levels down and stable , which would have anybody feel very good and even healthier!

Only you know where you'll be happy!
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I've drank for longer than that, and to be honest, I thought I was more lucid as well.
(And I was very happy)
 
Lamont D said:
No, if you, like I have, fasted for more than 72 hours, how is it that my brain became more lucid and I didn't even know at that time I was in ketosis, I'd never heard of it!

You can live longer without food, than water!
You can survive, with rationing, very well!
The amount of food you actually need to live healthy, is low!
If you didn't know about ketosis, and you stopped eating spuds and bread, kept away from cereals and carried on eating the protein and vegetables you already ate, that would probably do it!
Ketosis is a label!
It's not a thing you can touch!
You are over worring about the low carbing.
You can low carb without being in ketosis!

Your metabolism needed to be altered according to you, and the best way to do it is by reducing your carbs! If it doesn't work and you feel better not doing it, then don't do it!

We have had great success as our success stories forum will reveal, most of them are never in ketosis, they have done enough reduced carb to get their blood glucose levels down and stable , which would have anybody feel very good and even healthier!

Only you know where you'll be happy!
Click to expand...
What about the keto flu?
 
The effects of lowering carb intake have been likened to flu, but I think that the effect I got way back when I first did Atkins and tried to do 20 gm of carbs per day were false hypos, as I got them a few weeks ago. I was also losing a Kg a day, so I was feeling rather shocked. After three days I began to eat more carbs, so as to slow that down.
 
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