Reversing Type 2 diabetes

[zand]

@zand - how much weight have you lost so far during your 6 years of LCHF ? do you find you are putting weight back on easily as well ?

I have lost 22kg since diagnosis. I lost about 3 kg before I was diagnosed by just ditching the 'big white carbs', but that took a year. Yes I put weight on really easily. I would like to be 32kg lighter (at least).

I have done so many diets in the last 40 years that tbh I can't remember how much I lost on each. LCHF has been the most (only)successful and the one which has stopped me yo-yo dieting. I lost 6 pounds in 5 days on a fat fast but put that back on after I was ill a few months later. Similarly I lost 5 pounds when I got moderate hypothermia (!)and put that back on the first time I was ill afterwards. Yes I aim for 1200-1300 calories per day. I think I need to go lower carb to lose more but really can't face that long term.

 

[CherryAA]

I have lost 22kg since diagnosis. I lost about 3 kg before I was diagnosed by just ditching the 'big white carbs', but that took a year. Yes I put weight on really easily. I would like to be 32kg lighter (at least).

I have done so many diets in the last 40 years that tbh I can't remember how much I lost on each. LCHF has been the most (only)successful and the one which has stopped me yo-yo dieting. I lost 6 pounds in 5 days on a fat fast but put that back on after I was ill a few months later. Similarly I lost 5 pounds when I got moderate hypothermia (!)and put that back on the first time I was ill afterwards. Yes I aim for 1200-1300 calories per day. I think I need to go lower carb to lose more but really can't face that long term.

I find I only lose weight when I weigh and count everything and I had a little program, ironically called " balanced diet" which hated fats which I used from 1995 until last year. So I do have actual records of actual food eaten during my 20 year dieting experience which has included 6 major diets losing more than 10 kilos interspersed with no history at all as to how I magically came to put it all back. The one thing I do know is that stopping recording somewhere is pretty much the same as saying " given up" for me .

Its one of the reasons I have a little ritual in the mornings weight, blood pressure, glucose, ketones, - not because I actually think it matters too much what each one is, but because it refocuses my mind that my health has to be my number one priority so whenever I have the choice between getting a and b done if a is health and b isn't then I must choose health. Ridiculous really but at least at present I'm still stable and not putting it back on which is a first.

How low carb are you? I set my target as 30g using cronometer which adjusts for exercise so gives me a post exercise number of 40 usually . I don't find it too hard to achieve that and it does seem to allow me quite a few vegetables though I have stopped fruit except the odd berry and maybe half a dozen frozen tiny grapes (delicious). At the moment I am trying to up " intensive" exercise - i.e jogging instead of walking and some HIT stuff (very early days) to see if that helps kick start my metabolism

 

[zand]

@CherryAA sorry I feel too down to chat about this anymore. I've done my best and today I just feel like giving up.

 

[AngelaLynch]

Hi Everyone

It is possible to reverse type 2 diabetes by changing ones diet to a Whole Food plant based diet with no added fat or sugar.

Here are some links to give you information.

Dr Michael Gregor was in London this April and gave a talk to the college of Naturopathic medicine. He discusses diabetes around 40 minutes, but the whole talk is very interesting

A lady who reverses her diabetes https://dub128.mail.live.com/?tid=cmMhLsDOAo5hGvhAAjfeRhHA2&fid=flinbox

Good websites with lots of information

http://nutritionstudies.org/
http://www.forksoverknives.com/
https://www.drmcdougall.com/
http://nutritionfacts.org/

This way of eating will also lower blood pressure, cholesterol and reverse heart disease.

Sue

about time this information was shared on a diabetes forum, I was beginning to despair, so much nonsense about low carbing

 

[bulkbiker]

about time this information was shared on a diabetes forum, I was beginning to despair, so much nonsense about low carbing

What "nonsense" would that be.
Are you saying that my HbA1c numbers do not reflect the truth?
All achieved by an ultra low carb diet.

 

[CherryAA]

about time this information was shared on a diabetes forum, I was beginning to despair, so much nonsense about low carbing

I was going to post this : " I am pleased that you appear to be another example of the success of a whole food plant based diet. Perhaps you can share the details of how it worked for you together with a few actual figures to confirm it - similar to the details @bulkbiker and I post regarding measurements in our signatures ?

There are different forums for different interests so anyone can choose which kind of thing suits them. so if there are reportable examples of success- maybe the forum can be extended to set up a separate one for this kind of diet?

My 24/7 monitor seems to confirm precisely what has been said about low carbing down to the instantaneous response of the worst figures I have had in weeks appearing as a direct result of visiting one of the best regarded vegan whole food health restaurants in London and trying the pea soup. Something I won't be repeating in a hurry !"

but then I remembered, you are the lady that doesn't actually have diabetes. I guess your original post criticising what we thought was diabetes.org was indeed meant for us then . Oops !

 

[pleinster]

I think we are in violent agreement, everyone can and should be suspicious of anything they are being old by an" authority" or not, though clearly evidence based authorities count for more.

My only concern with your post was that the way I read it you had effectively singled out those that had actually achieved full success on the journey including reaching target weight goals.

What is very clear is that with an initial diagnosis of diabetes , there are things that individuals can do through diet, all well explained by Daisy that will put them in a much healthier position relatively quickly, including reduced blood sugars, improved lipids and weight loss which moves them to a much better position than they began including their vulnerability to all manner of troubles which may or may not include some cancers

Some people will be lucky that this switch is enough to get them back to normal weight and normal insulin resistance as well. For many of us, including me, it won't and we will still find ourselves searching for new inspiration to get to that final stage. As such if anyone does try out something different and is prepared to share their experiences of it, I for one will be very grateful of any reports of the results - good or bad.

In the end all of this is down to what works for each individual. That will be combination of whatever the underlying science is- which may or may not yet have been discovered and the personal traits of each person.

Sometimes it can be hard to convey exactly what we mean and so it seems here. peace!

I wasn't trying to single one group out...it was an example of where the survey fell short.

 

[CherryAA]

I wasn't trying to single one group out...it was an example of where the survey fell short.

yes I get that now its very easy to misinterpret statements people make no worries .

 

[Oldvatr]

about time this information was shared on a diabetes forum, I was beginning to despair, so much nonsense about low carbing

Well when you and @AliB give us some scientific evidence to back up your claims to reverse T2D then maybe we will give you the time of day. All we get is glossy videos on Youtube with well rehearsed spiels, and we have asked many times for proper scientific data. So far its been pretty unimpressive. Angela, we talked about this before, and you still have not given us solid evidence. There is evidence a'plenty to support LC diets which you decry so much. but there are a large number of people on this site who regularly and sustainably get their diabetes under control. with LC diet. I am one, but I do not make the claims for a cure, since I know that when the diet stops, so does my control regime. There are vegetarians using LC with success too, so it is not limited to omnivores.

So I challenge the WFPB brigade to PROVE the claim that a high carb diet will truly reverse Diabetes. Put up or shut up.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

I found the videos on the benefits of fibre on health quite interesting. I have been a vegetarian for over 40 years, so eat a lot of salad and vegetables. I think a “plant based” diet may not be good for type 2 diabetes if this includes a lot of high carb foods such as cereals, bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Some fruit is also very high in carbs, such as bananas and grapes. The benefits of vinegar to gut bacteria was also informative.

When you cut back on carbs, you need to increase the amount of fat in your diet to compensate. Perhaps plant based fat from nuts and avocados may be more beneficial than animal based fat such as cheese and milk. I may try to make some alterations to my diet as my weight loss has stalled after losing 11Kg.

The benefits mentioned in the video in the opening post from eating a plant based diet seem to also apply to intermittently fasting. Fasting puts the body into a state of autophagy where it repairs itself. What your eat and how much you eat seem to be very important in maintaining good health. Some very simple changes in lifestyle and diet can have amazing benefits. Member of the forum should share these benefits, however it is more meaningful to get advice from people with diabetes who have benefitted rather than from people who don’t have diabetes with an agenda. Some vegans can be very evangelical about their beliefs. Most people here want to hear about what actually works for forum members with diabetes. I know I have had huge benefits from a LCHF diet.

 

[Oldvatr]

I found the videos on the benefits of fibre on health quite interesting. I have been a vegetarian for over 40 years, so eat a lot of salad and vegetables. I think a “plant based” diet may not be good for type 2 diabetes if this includes a lot of high carb foods such as cereals, bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Some fruit is also very high in carbs, such as bananas and grapes. The benefits of vinegar to gut bacteria was also informative.

When you cut back on carbs, you need to increase the amount of fat in your diet to compensate. Perhaps plant based fat from nuts and avocados may be more beneficial than animal based fat such as cheese and milk. I may try to make some alterations to my diet as my weight loss has stalled after losing 11Kg.

The benefits mentioned in the video in the opening post from eating a plant based diet seem to also apply to intermittently fasting. Fasting puts the body into a state of autophagy where it repairs itself. What your eat and how much you eat seem to be very important in maintaining good health. Some very simple changes in lifestyle and diet can have amazing benefits. Member of the forum should share these benefits, however it is more meaningful to get advice from people with diabetes who have benefitted rather than from people who don’t have diabetes with an agenda. Some vegans can be very evangelical about their beliefs. Most people here want to hear about what actually works for forum members with diabetes. I know I have had huge benefits from a LCHF diet.

I am sure a vegetarion diet is beneficial for diabetics, and this is not incompatible with an LC diet format. I also use the glycemic index as part of my LCHF diet, and again I have no problem with incorporating it. Also I use fasting as part of my control regime, and that too fits the LCHF format that I use to contril my diabetes. But I do not claim that LCHF is the only way to control bgl, and I do not make a claim that it will cure diabetes. But some on this thread ARE making that claim, and they are also urging us to stop doing LC to take up a high carb almost zero fat protocol. They have not been able to provide proper explanation as to the mechanisms backing up their claim, only that by following blindly down their path then a miracle will happen, I do not buy that. I would not follow a strict vegan diet myself, and would need it to be LC anyway. But if you look at what foods are allowed or not allowed in Forks over Knives, then yes they do allow oats and rice etc.

 

[JohnEGreen]

I'm starting to entertain some pretty dark thoughts at the moment. I am a supporter of LCHF as together with restricting calories it has seemed to work for me putting me into remission.

But remission can be fragile it may not last forever So if it breaks and I am starting to see signs that it may where do I go from there? I really don't know.

 

[Freema]

I'm starting to entertain some pretty dark thoughts at the moment. I am a supporter of LCHF as together with restricting calories it has seemed to work for me putting me into remission.

But remission can be fragile it may not last forever So if it breaks and I am starting to see signs that it may where do I go from there? I really don't know.

have you tried to go on a totally natural and whole food eating style and leaving out all kinds of industrilized foods ...

 

[Oldvatr]

I'm starting to entertain some pretty dark thoughts at the moment. I am a supporter of LCHF as together with restricting calories it has seemed to work for me putting me into remission.

But remission can be fragile it may not last forever So if it breaks and I am starting to see signs that it may where do I go from there? I really don't know.

The go-to standby in the future may still be Insulin, as is the position today. We may find better ways of putting it into our bodies than injections or cannulas (beam me up, Scottie) so it is worth using delaying tactics while we can.

 

[JohnEGreen]

@Freema I may have to try that but on the whole I try and avoid any processed foods as it is as if I eat them I cough sneeze and have runny nose for hours.

@Oldvatr you could be right I hate to think it but today I have had a real knock back.

Started the day OK at 5.3 then after lunch got a reading of 10.4 then after dinner found my self at an unheard of for me any way 13.8 time to start worrying as to my next move I think.

 

[Mbaker]

Just came across a posting on another forum by a proponent of WFPB. This was posted at the end of a very good thread discussing the science of metabolism. I quote it complete with typo's. It was not followed by any attempt to provide any science backing, which is what I am still looking for.
<<<<<
It makes me cry guys, stop that low carb, high animal fat ******** for the sake of the millions' health.

Most people using keto diet dont want to find out more about it.

For example ketogenic diet causes insulin resistance and high gasting sugar blood level yet people claim it lowers blood glucose levels.

It also destroys your gut micrflorsa,leads to glutathione depletion etc

There arent ANY primal people who thrive on keto diet (no Inui arent in ketosis) whereas there are plenty of being healthy and strong on high carbs diet.

Most keto believers dont even get basic stuff like that you dont need insulin responae to be fat etc.

I have many of science links to back up my claims but fighting with cultists is just waste of time,its lije discussing **** in /earthisflat>>>>>>>>

I agree with the closing remark, but apologise for the use of language (not my words)

This seems counter intuitive to me, just on the daily evidence in the fasting numbers, HbA1c's, low carb programme and success stories on this site, Diet Doctor etc, show that Keto diets and LCHF approaching Keto levels do well. I don't know if my carb numbers on LCHF are Ketogenic, they would be close, but I know the following:

1. My health markers except for 1 are in the healthy range (a 134 for haemoglobin when it should be 135 or above)
2. HbA1c is in normal range as is fasting blood glucose. This directly contradicts the point about "high fasting sugar"
3. Insulin definitely is a vehicle for laying down fat amongst other duties

I find this post incoherent. On the contrary, the high carb diet since circa 1977 has delivered arguably the biggest self inflicted biological damage to human kind (and domestic pet diabetes is soaring) ever. Just look at the obesity, diabetes / pre-diabetes numbers since this date across the globe, this is not coincidence. Nobody can argue that carbs are not the primary reason for the major insulin response, and that carbs turn to glucose in the body which if not used either turn to fat or cause outside of the accepted medical range blood sugar levels. This diet even makes some sports persons who train 3-4 hours a day pre-diabetic. The facts are crystal clear:

 

[Oldvatr]

@Freema I may have to try that but on the whole I try and avoid any processed foods as it is as if I eat them I cough sneeze and have runny nose for hours.

@Oldvatr you could be right I hate to think it but today I have had a real knock back.

Started the day OK at 5.3 then after lunch got a reading of 10.4 then after dinner found my self at an unheard of for me any way 13.8 time to start worrying as to my next move I think.

Sorry to hear that, I assume you are no longer taking medication. Then something is going on, like an infection or a stress event? Presume you double checked your food intake.
A sudden rise like that is less likely to be the beta cells packing up, but keep an eye on it, and get researching DKA just in case. Any new pains? possible embolism?

 

[loiphamp]

Metformin has protective uses against other things and that's a low dose, so no problem. If you're happy with the food you eat right now then I wouldn't change that. I'm trying plant based eating to lose weight. I have put on a pound after day 1 lol. So anyone who experiments should use caution

Hi Zan I just got my lab result today A1C at 5.7 great news for me I think I will get this Note i lived in America

 

[Bluetit1802]

Started the day OK at 5.3 then after lunch got a reading of 10.4 then after dinner found my self at an unheard of for me any way 13.8 time to start worrying as to my next move I think.

If you have not done anything yourself to cause this, and the rise did not correspond to what you ate, and you haven't picked up a virus or whatever, AND are following a very low carb diet, this could be a sign of physiological insulin resistance (different from diabetic IR, not at all the same cause.). I understand your concern. It has been happening to me recently, although my levels are nowhere near as high as yours, just silly inexplicable rises from pre to post meal that do not correspond to what I ate. I am making some plans, and intend to start by stopping my R-Alpha Lipoic Acid as this issue started at the same time I started taking them. It may not be them, but one thing at a time to be eliminated.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Freema I may have to try that but on the whole I try and avoid any processed foods as it is as if I eat them I cough sneeze and have runny nose for hours.

@Oldvatr you could be right I hate to think it but today I have had a real knock back.

Started the day OK at 5.3 then after lunch got a reading of 10.4 then after dinner found my self at an unheard of for me any way 13.8 time to start worrying as to my next move I think.

I'm guessing you have checked the battery in your meter? People have reported readings way off if battery running out. Fingers crossed it's that.