My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

[ickihun]

Day 9 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6kg, current 85.0kg )

So yesterday I ate tons of fish protein within a meal of 1600 calories. That brought the fat content down. Over the previous three days I had recorded 0.6-0.8 kg weight loss every day through my magic lasagne.

Today I weight 85 kg again - but I am not comparing like with like given that the measurement yesterday was at 4.pm ie after another half days fasting.

My goal in eating the extra protein was to try to see if I could do that and still record weight loss or not . The difference in timing means at present I don't know.

The other thing that happened with my magic lasagne was that my blood sugars over night were coming down into the 3-6 to 3.9 range and I wondered if this lack of glucose was then triggering an increased liver dump. My thinking was that with a diet higher in protein then maybe the long acting effect of the protein would leave my overnight fasting numbers a little higher and thus lead to lower liver dump in the morning. So far so good .

After my magic lasagne - my post meal high was essentially nothing ( 4.4 => to 4.6)
with my high protein fish meal which also contained more carbs (50g) I got a bigger reaction (5.1=> 5.8) and I went to bed on 4.7 mmol compared to 3.7 the day before - which overall seemed like a good thing.

If I had left it there the experiment would have told me something.
but ( @ickihun will smile at this ) could I leave well alone - NOPE .

This morning I awoke at about 3.00 am with a down error flashing at 4.1 on my libre - something its done dozens of times before to no ill effect at all - so instead of leaving things be - and thus leaving my experiment intact. I went to the fridge and I ate about 10g of raw carrot thinking that might keep my blood sugars stable. It didn't instead they shot up to 5.8, remained elevated all morning, gave me a liver dump of 6.6 mmol higher than its been since I started!

Now of course I have no idea if the reason for that is the quantity of protein in the meal, or the tiny bit of carrot. I think its probably the latter.

This reinforces overall my belief that the human body does not actually respond that much to quantity, it responds to type - so it is the act of eating at the wrong time, coupled with fairly small quantities of the wrong stuff that creates the problem .
For me that would reinforce the idea that eating more carbohydrates via shakes whilst restricting the total quantum of calories may well be a less effective way of losing weight and reversing diabetes than eating more of the right calories ( real foods) but leaving long gaps in between which should in turn reduce fasting insulin faster and thus increase insulin sensitivity.

In terms of today's strategy - there is no doubt in my mind that I ate too much protein yesterday , I just felt way too full all evening and right into the night, despite my low blood glucose and still high ketones. ( the police would still jail me in a car!)

So for today's meal I am going to ditch the salmon thus bringing total proteins down to about the same as the magic lasagne, then cook some more vegetables in butter and cream to create a vegetarian ( ish ) main course, with the same fruit desert as before - that replicates similar levels of carbs and proteins as the magic lasagne, but it slightly less calorific overall . I only need 1300 calories to get to 99% of nutrients. That will also be 65% fat- ie classic LCHF.
I keep being caught out by trying to make foods not quite fatty enough ! when will I learn !
note to self, eat butter, don't have "snacks " of any type and stop meddling

No snacks really work for me too.
Raw carrot is very sweet for me. Id use cheese to block a liver dump hun. The fat lasts til 4am and thereafter.

 

[BrianTheElder]

U

Day 9 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6kg, current 85.0kg )

So yesterday I ate tons of fish protein within a meal of 1600 calories. That brought the fat content down. Over the previous three days I had recorded 0.6-0.8 kg weight loss every day through my magic lasagne.

Today I weight 85 kg again - but I am not comparing like with like given that the measurement yesterday was at 4.pm ie after another half days fasting.

My goal in eating the extra protein was to try to see if I could do that and still record weight loss or not . The difference in timing means at present I don't know.

The other thing that happened with my magic lasagne was that my blood sugars over night were coming down into the 3-6 to 3.9 range and I wondered if this lack of glucose was then triggering an increased liver dump. My thinking was that with a diet higher in protein then maybe the long acting effect of the protein would leave my overnight fasting numbers a little higher and thus lead to lower liver dump in the morning. So far so good .

After my magic lasagne - my post meal high was essentially nothing ( 4.4 => to 4.6)
with my high protein fish meal which also contained more carbs (50g) I got a bigger reaction (5.1=> 5.8) and I went to bed on 4.7 mmol compared to 3.7 the day before - which overall seemed like a good thing.

If I had left it there the experiment would have told me something.
but ( @ickihun will smile at this ) could I leave well alone - NOPE .

This morning I awoke at about 3.00 am with a down error flashing at 4.1 on my libre - something its done dozens of times before to no ill effect at all - so instead of leaving things be - and thus leaving my experiment intact. I went to the fridge and I ate about 10g of raw carrot thinking that might keep my blood sugars stable. It didn't instead they shot up to 5.8, remained elevated all morning, gave me a liver dump of 6.6 mmol higher than its been since I started!

Now of course I have no idea if the reason for that is the quantity of protein in the meal, or the tiny bit of carrot. I think its probably the latter.

This reinforces overall my belief that the human body does not actually respond that much to quantity, it responds to type - so it is the act of eating at the wrong time, coupled with fairly small quantities of the wrong stuff that creates the problem .
For me that would reinforce the idea that eating more carbohydrates via shakes whilst restricting the total quantum of calories may well be a less effective way of losing weight and reversing diabetes than eating more of the right calories ( real foods) but leaving long gaps in between which should in turn reduce fasting insulin faster and thus increase insulin sensitivity.

In terms of today's strategy - there is no doubt in my mind that I ate too much protein yesterday , I just felt way too full all evening and right into the night, despite my low blood glucose and still high ketones. ( the police would still jail me in a car!)

So for today's meal I am going to ditch the salmon thus bringing total proteins down to about the same as the magic lasagne, then cook some more vegetables in butter and cream to create a vegetarian ( ish ) main course, with the same fruit desert as before - that replicates similar levels of carbs and proteins as the magic lasagne, but it slightly less calorific overall . I only need 1300 calories to get to 99% of nutrients. That will also be 65% fat- ie classic LCHF.
I keep being caught out by trying to make foods not quite fatty enough ! when will I learn !
note to self, eat butter, don't have "snacks " of any type and stop meddling

I agree about higher protein, it always has a pronounced effect on my fbs and weight. My gluconeogenesis must work really well when fats are also lower than usual. The answer of course is to eat a set amount of protein and plenty of fat. I am just a bit wary of saturated fat at the moment, because I seem to be a hyper-responder, Anyway, well done and keep up the experiments.

 

[CherryAA]

U

I agree about higher protein, it always has a pronounced effect on my fbs and weight. My gluconeogenesis must work really well when fats are also lower than usual. The answer of course is to eat a set amount of protein and plenty of fat. I am just a bit wary of saturated fat at the moment, because I seem to be a hyper-responder, Anyway, well done and keep up the experiments.

My personal view is that being a hyperresonder is quite likely to turn out to be a good thing .

I redid my ketones using the breathalyser ( battery gone on the meter ) and for the first time in days its now registering 0.3 instead of alarm bells ringing 0 .5 . so clearly it takes a long time for the proteins to work all the way through and it looks like while they are doing so that depresses weight loss.

I am not sure if it was the high fats for the last thre days that got me into such high ketosis, or instead it was the 1000 calorie a day restricted main meal for three days first.
Today was 1300 calories 65% fat, 54g sat fat so I guess I might be about to find out !
4.7 pre meal

 

[CherryAA]

@BrianTheElder

https://twitter.com/MaryanneDemasi/status/916448804068409344

You may like to follow this up ..

 

[Fleegle]

Day 8 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6kg, current ??kg )

No scales at the moment , so I don't know what my actual weight is doing, but ketones of 2.8 last night and 1.9 this morning , so I am assuming the process continues. I am alos consciously drinking much more water than usual, just to be sure this is not all water effect.

Average blood glucose yesterday 4.8 -including a 4.1 overnight fasting, 7.0 morning liver dump and 4.6 post meal high aver the liver dump!

This morning I still record overnight lows in the 3.6-3.9 range , but the liver reaction today has topped out at 5.1 suggesting that the swings yesterday were more a function of the new libre than me.

I am going to switch things up today, and devise a highly calorific, highly fatty meal with mainly fish base and try that out for a bit.
Woman cannot live on beef lasagne alone ! - though it wouldn't be a huge hardship its delicious !

I quite often get really low lows (3's) at night with a libre but from testing I think they are false lows.
I tend to use the largest bar on my average BG and that is a pretty good indicator of my actual HBA. We are all different though. I wish my 3's were real as it brings my weekly average to below 4.5.
Not all sensors do this - I have had some which kind of bounce through the night 4.2-4.9 in a little snake like pattern.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I quite often get really low lows (3's) at night with a libre but from testing I think they are false lows.
I tend to use the largest bar on my average BG and that is a pretty good indicator of my actual HBA. We are all different though. I wish my 3's were real as it brings my weekly average to below 4.5.
Not all sensors do this - I have had some which kind of bounce through the night 4.2-4.9 in a little snake like pattern.

Most of my sensors have given me long periods of 3s over night, which helped with its estimate of my HbA1c, ridiculously low, ranging from as low as 27. LOL. Others have said similar, something perhaps down to lying on it in bed. On occasions when I have woken for the loo, and tested, my finger pricks have been a lot higher than the Libre, higher than during the day.

 

[CherryAA]

I quite often get really low lows (3's) at night with a libre but from testing I think they are false lows.
I tend to use the largest bar on my average BG and that is a pretty good indicator of my actual HBA. We are all different though. I wish my 3's were real as it brings my weekly average to below 4.5.
Not all sensors do this - I have had some which kind of bounce through the night 4.2-4.9 in a little snake like pattern.

That's why I feel such a twit for trying to " rectify "it. I am fascinated though that less than a half a carrot at 3.00 m has led to an 1.00 mmol increase all day long and its still higher now. Given that I happily ate 33g of net carbs in a meal and that moved the needle by half as much, it just goes to show just how bad snacking one biscuit must be before diagnosis. I had definitely equated " good " with low quantity and thus not worried about the odd biscuit when dieting. Its now clear to me just how much that is sabotaging a diet and dooming it to failure. so the whole Slimming World - 200 calories of treats per day, might be decimating the potential weight loss of the participant - stemming directly from the " calorie is a calorie" hypothesis which is cleary nonsense. My Cronometer has said very firmly that I have overeaten by 600-calories per day during the period I've recorded a 7 kg weight loss.

 

[marathonmona]

I am definitely hungry - but for some reason the sheer power of having decided - nope I can eat a really nice - meal later just not now - seems to be working . I have kept this up for 10 days now with not a single stray ( though see my next post ) and somehow it just becomes more and more ingrained that NO I will not eat until my meal. I have stopped myself with fingers to lips on a hundred occasions, just that tiny bite, that little bit of cheese left on the counter etc etc.

I posted elsewhere about a non diabetic friend of mine getting an enormous spike bigger than her OGTT tolerance test from eating just a 5 gram piece of candied ginger. That image sits with me when I think about any " tiny" amounts of anything.

I suppose it’s like anything; you get used to it. I am the same with ‘slipping stuff in’: a bit of cheese here, couple of tablespoons of bolognaise there, a swig of cream, some pepper, carrot, etc. etc. When I was VLCing, my husband quite often found me with my fist in my mouth to stop myself from snacking in the kitchen as I was sooo used to nibbling all day. It takes real effort and mindfulness not to do it.
I tried a 24 hour fast today (From tea last night) and just had to keep repeating the mantra over and over again. Only complaint I had was I had a headache, which incidentally is still here now post-meal.

 

[CherryAA]

I suppose it’s like anything; you get used to it. I am the same with ‘slipping stuff in’: a bit of cheese here, couple of tablespoons of bolognaise there, a swig of cream, some pepper, carrot, etc. etc. When I was VLCing, my husband quite often found me with my fist in my mouth to stop myself from snacking in the kitchen as I was sooo used to nibbling all day. It takes real effort and mindfulness not to do it.
I tried a 24 hour fast today (From tea last night) and just had to keep repeating the mantra over and over again. Only complaint I had was I had a headache, which incidentally is still here now post-meal.

Sorry to hear it gave you a headache - did you start with a big meal beforehand with a lot of salt ? and did you make sure you drank lots of water? they both help a lot.

I do think that even if in the long run this diet doesn't do what I hope it will in terms of weight loss or diabetes, it WILL have taught me something about myself and my previous inability to walk past the fridge. If nothing else the daily reinforcement of that for as long as I can keep it up, will probably stand me in good stead in the future .

still 10 days down only 46 to go !

 

[marathonmona]

Sorry to hear it gave you a headache - did you start with a big meal beforehand with a lot of salt ? and did you make sure you drank lots of water? they both help a lot.

I do think that even if in the long run this diet doesn't do what I hope it will in terms of weight loss or diabetes, it WILL have taught me something about myself and my previous inability to walk past the fridge. If nothing else the daily reinforcement of that for as long as I can keep it up, will probably stand me in good stead in the future .

still 10 days down only 46 to go !

I drank water regularly today but probably not enough for a fasting day
I’ve heard about the salt before but am slightly apprehensive as have every slight hypertension...
I’ve had a nice meal tonight which included Camembert, clotted cream and walnuts amongst other things. May give your lasagne a go tomorrow! Do you bake your aubergine and bacon before assembling the lasagne?

 

[CherryAA]

I drank water regularly today but probably not enough for a fasting day
I’ve heard about the salt before but am slightly apprehensive as have every slight hypertension...
I’ve had a nice meal tonight which included Camembert, clotted cream and walnuts amongst other things. May give your lasagne a go tomorrow! Do you bake your aubergine and bacon before assembling the lasagne?

Unsurprisingly no I don't "bake " anything - you've already guessed the answer I pre-fry it a bit in some of the...... butter !.

I've got hypertension too , so the salt bit worries me a bit too but more and more evidence is emerging about salt deficiencies there is a new book out on it I intend to read when I get chance . As far a iI know though the headaches are likely to come from a deficiency of one of three things - salt, magnesium or potassium . I do take the odd supplement for the latter two - not every day though. i.e. also take to adding soy sauce now and again to things as that is very high in sodium

so far I've been spared any headaches - no idea if its connected .

If you are going to try this route, I can't recommend enough the table spoon of cod liver oil and the sme of apple cider vinegar before the meal. the vinegar is suppose to dull the spike by upto 40% - Jason Fung is a big fan.... ( as am I of him)
its really hard matching matching omega 3 to omega 6 without supplementation unless the meal is essentially a fatty fish one. Cod liver oil does that.

I did actually simply combine the two and then take it as one hit. It is still disgusting, but not quite so disgusting as each one independently.
If you are giving this a go, I would love to know if the same thing happens to you in terms of ketones and weight loss !
good luck

 

[marathonmona]

Unsurprisingly no I don't "bake " anything - you've already guessed the answer I pre-fry it a bit in some of the...... butter !.

I've got hypertension too , so the salt bit worries me a bit too but more and more evidence is emerging about salt deficiencies there is a new book out on it I intend to read when I get chance . As far a iI know though the headaches are likely to come from a deficiency of one of three things - salt, magnesium or potassium . I do take the odd supplement for the latter two - not every day though. i.e. also take to adding soy sauce now and again to things as that is very high in sodium

so far I've been spared any headaches - no idea if its connected .

If you are going to try this route, I can't recommend enough the table spoon of cod liver oil and the sme of apple cider vinegar before the meal. the vinegar is suppose to dull the spike by upto 40% - Jason Fung is a big fan.... ( as am I of him)
its really hard matching matching omega 3 to omega 6 without supplementation unless the meal is essentially a fatty fish one. Cod liver oil does that.

I did actually simply combine the two and then take it as one hit. It is still disgusting, but not quite so disgusting as each one independently.
If you are giving this a go, I would love to know if the same thing happens to you in terms of ketones and weight loss !
good luck

At a guess it was probably the lack of water... I need to be more vigilant with it.

I’ve been drinking ACV for about three months now. I bloody love it! I have it mixed with no added sugar cherries and berries squash and water and drink it with a straw whilst eating my tea. I can’t do it on an empty stomach as it gives me pain and that can’t be good.

I’ve never measured my ketones! Might give that a go one day... not sure.

I’m always really focused in the holidays (I teach) but during term time i become stress’ slave. I have to find ways of looking after myself better.

I’ll let you know how I get on! I’ve just come off 5 weeks of 900/1000 cals a day with a loss of 16 lbs. I was hard and I’ve never been so hungry in my life lol. It worked but couldn’t keep it up much longer.

 

[CherryAA]

At a guess it was probably the lack of water... I need to be more vigilant with it.

I’ve been drinking ACV for about three months now. I bloody love it! I have it mixed with no added sugar cherries and berries squash and water and drink it with a straw whilst eating my tea. I can’t do it on an empty stomach as it gives me pain and that can’t be good.

I’ve never measured my ketones! Might give that a go one day... not sure.

I’m always really focused in the holidays (I teach) but during term time i become stress’ slave. I have to find ways of looking after myself better.

I’ll let you know how I get on! I’ve just come off 5 weeks of 900/1000 cals a day with a loss of 16 lbs. I was hard and I’ve never been so hungry in my life lol. It worked but couldn’t keep it up much longer.

If you buy a cheap breathlyser off the internet you can check if you are making ketones whenever you want.jsut by blowing into it.
I bought this one for 10.99.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01HJGILNA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been checking that against both the ketonix which costs a lot, and the test strips which are also expensive . basically
for me if I am not in ketosis or in very mild ketosis nothing will register on it. ( and my weight doesn't go down either 1) .
Once I am in ketosis of around 0.5 on a blood meter it will register 0.2

That will gradually increase so that eventually you hit 05. and it buzzes at you like a mad man - that has equated to blood ketones of 2-3 and it is at that point that weight dropped off in the last 10 days.

Today I lost the buzz foir much of the day and I think that simply confirms my 1600 calories yesterday was too much protein not enough fat. Today went back to about 70 g proteins and 30g fat and about 1300 calories overall . That is pretty much the same as my target before except that a) its a lot harder to stick to it when nibbles are allowed and b) the level of ketosis seems to be lower when the food is spread out.

I got my buzz back at 9.00 pm today with the switch to more fat and less protein today, so hopefully I'm back on track again now.

 

[marathonmona]

Look at my macros: too many carbs but oh my, all that fat!!

 

[ickihun]

Look at my macros: too many carbs but oh my, all that fat!!

When I ate in such proportions i added weight because my protein took the place of my missing carbs. Had bgs in 10s too. I was taking huge basal insulin thou. 200units approx.

 

[CherryAA]

Look at my macros: too many carbs but oh my, all that fat!!

well you certainly embraced it with avengance ! lets face it -if it doesn't work - you had a great meal

I've uploaded the first few days data for this.

The misstep with too much protein yesterday clearly shows , plus the debacle with a carrot ! so today for the first time since i began I have a 5.4 average glucose instead of under 5 for all other days - hopefully I will get back on track tomorrow.

I should also point out I REALLY was not expecting this diet to turn into eating as much as this. What I actually embarked on was my version of the 800 calorie VLC diet but where the foods hit 100% of nutrient requirement and I only ate once per day . I was expecting that to be around 1000 calories and hoping that if i was meeting my nutrient needs then maybe I could keep it up. it was only the mistake with the heavy handedness of my friend leading to me having eaten way more calories than I thought I had that caused the switch. I have no idea why that caused my metabolism to suddenly gear up like steam train and even less idea of how long for !

 

[CherryAA]

When I ate in such proportions i added weight because my protein took the place of my missing carbs. Had bgs in 10s too. I was taking huge basal insulin thou. 200units approx.

58g of protein is quite low, 58g of carbs relatively heavy , do you eat a lot less than 58g of proteins per day ?

 

[marathonmona]

I think my protein needs to be in the 90s so yes that was quite low.
I’m not a macro counter to be fair but I occasionally look at the nutrition pie chart to see how I’m doing in terms of carbs.
My FBG was 5.7 this morning and I’ve lost 2.5 lbs this morning after one day of OMAD. That’s coming off a binge/carb fest all week so it’s probably all water.

 

[marathonmona]

well you certainly embraced it with avengance ! lets face it -if it doesn't work - you had a great meal

I've uploaded the first few days data for this.

The misstep with too much protein yesterday clearly shows , plus the debacle with a carrot ! so today for the first time since i began I have a 5.4 average glucose instead of under 5 for all other days - hopefully I will get back on track tomorrow.

I should also point out I REALLY was not expecting this diet to turn into eating as much as this. What I actually embarked on was my version of the 800 calorie VLC diet but where the foods hit 100% of nutrient requirement and I only ate once per day . I was expecting that to be around 1000 calories and hoping that if i was meeting my nutrient needs then maybe I could keep it up. it was only the mistake with the heavy handedness of my friend leading to me having eaten way more calories than I thought I had that caused the switch. I have no idea why that caused my metabolism to suddenly gear up like steam train and even less idea of how long for !

It certainly makes for an interesting experiment; that’s for sure!!

 

[marathonmona]

My BG was 5 before my meal and 3.6 an hour afterwards... I re-tested and it still said 3.6, which seemed odd. This morning my Codefree didn’t want to measure anything at all-I tried 3 strips and changing the battery. Then finally it measured 5.7 on the fourth attempt. Maybe it’s time for a new one...