More Support, less Advice for Newbies

[lucylocket61]

Is that a kind way of sayin..... here we go again!
The ranting of posters who want to bully others into changing there experience?

I am sorry that you feel that I am trying to bully you and others, although I feel sure that, if I have overstepped the mark, the mods would have dealt swiftly with me. Please make sure you report anything I have posted which you feel constitutes bullying.

This subject seems to get re-visited because it hasnt been properly discussed or dealt with yet. This thread had an attempt at derailment to shut me up, a nasty comment (now edited) to intimidate me, and now you call me a ranting bully for standing up for something I feel strongly about and having an opinion I am defending.

I feel confident the Mod team would have called me to account or locked this thread if that were the case.

 

[lucylocket61]

I'd personally like all goodbye threads to be banned/removed. That's what the PM system is for if you feel the need to say goodbye to your friends.

I guess I'm confused as to why anyone thinks a privately run forum is somehow a democracy where we get to debate, dispute, argue about how the forum should be run. That's the owner's ultimate call and that's what the rules are for.

"Ultimately the members make the the forum what it is. From the moderation point of view we obviously cannot censure posts unless they break forum rules or fail to live up to the ethos of what we are about. From a personal point of view, it is interesting that this subject has been raised and I (and I'm sure the moderation team as a whole) will be following this discussion."

the above quote is from the Moderator post #13 It appears the moderators do not share your view and, if you read the whole post will see that they are interested in our thought, opinions and views.

 

[CherryAA]

Is that a kind way of sayin..... here we go again!
The ranting of posters who want to bully others into changing there experience?

You are too kind to say it.

@CherryAA . Put yourself in other peoples shoes. Not all have same needs. Yes diet is important but diet only doesn't work for everyone hun.
Can you please accept this? Not everyone is like you.

Yes I can accept it and I know everyone is not like me. I do not want to " bully" anyone. I would like the facts and research to be made clear.

You have been doing an amazing job in losing weight whilst on insulin and I have great respect for your achievement.

This website itself published research today on the fact that controlling blood sugars via medication is not necessarily going to minimise all cause mortality. Dr Fung has the clearest lectures on this whole issue that I have seen. Hence I have a focus on trying to help people not start medications if they possibly can.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2017...ion-linked-to-higher-death-risk-96381539.html

 

[Boo1979]

I am sorry that you feel that I am trying to bully you and others, although I feel sure that, if I have overstepped the mark, the mods would have dealt swiftly with me. Please make sure you report anything I have posted which you feel constitutes bullying..

I might be wrong, but when I read ickihuns post I didnt read it as being directed at you - other names came to mind

 

[CherryAA]

I might be wrong, but when I read aickihuns post I didnt read it as being directed at you - other names came to mind

I'm guessing mine . For anyone who thinks I am trying to bully anyone on anything, I am not ( at least not deliberately). Forums are all about debate. I put forward a suggestion because I do think that there is a debate to be had about how strong the advice on the website should be about the lifestyle changes people can make. The reason that there is a certain amount of anguish about posters coming on too strong in initial posts for new people which effectively go further than @daisy1 advice is precisely because of that. Its not something I post about on newcomer threads.

The @daisy1 post is very good, however in my personal opinion it should make rather more emphasis on the nature of the changes that could be adopted and make it clearer that a focus on achieving control through diet is likely to lead to better long term outcomes than a reliance on medication.

Just a personal opinion. Not an attack on anyone who disagrees with me !

 

[woodywhippet61]

Saying go on a 24hour fast then go low carb is not bullying it's just advice. I suspect most newcomers would recoil and look for an 'easier' solution/course of action and others would have posted them.

One of my problems with these 'what should newcomers be told' topics is that some people appear to believe that on diagnosis our brains withered and died. They didn't. Yes we were in a very emotional state BUT at no point weren't we able to look at advice given on a forum from someone we've never met and not decide what was possible for us and what isn't. To think otherwise is to be very judgemental about the mental capabilities of newcomers and IMO it's rude.

I believe that when we come here looking for advice, as long as there is different advice, a new poster will grab hold and go with the advice that they find easiest to follow. For some this maybe an extreme change in diet or a moderate change in diet or no change in diet at all. Some might decide to test and some won't. Some will come back and some won't.

But they will be making the decision because they haven't stopped being a functioning human being just because they were diagnosed as being diabetic.

 

[paulus1]

deep breath and chill. no one is wrong and no one is right. each has there own way of doing this living with thing. your all here for support needed and given. perhaps the mods could consider a simple basic info fact sheet/s on what to do as our nhs is not doing a great job at the moment for a lot of new diagnosed. maybe a new section for newby advice section. with just a few experienced responders. i dont know but shouting at each other is pointless.

 

[Brunneria]

Before anyone else throws the word 'bully' around, will you all please stop and think.

The moderation team take accusations of bullying very seriously, and if someone considers that bullying is happening, then they should report the post in question immediately for moderator consideration.

Debating un-named, un-evidenced cases of 'bullying' is highly destructive to everyone concerned and is likely to result in thread melt-down and mods stepping in to close down the discussion.

Basically, you need to provide evidence, in a private Report, otherwise you are making personal attacks on fellow forum members - which is against the rules.

Please also bear in mind that the same applies to people claiming to be defending themselves against being accused of 'bullying', since defending by attacking is still an attack.

 

[Sue192]

May I, as a relatively newbie, put in my twopenn'orth? I came here after a diagnosis from my GP who said (apologies for repetition from a previous post) "your BP is spot-on, your cholesterol is brilliant, but you have Type 2 diabetes. Let's see what you can do with diet and exercise and we'll test again in three months." For me this was fine and I was grateful (like @Grateful) for his laid-back approach. Presumably I was just 'over the border' and I am very lucky that two of the three 'markers' were fine. Again, like @Grateful, I don't test - my choice until the results of the next blood test says otherwise or not - and have, after a lot of reading of this forum and buying Dr Cavan's book, gone low-carb. What I certainly did need was that pat on the head mentioned previously and a virtual hug as I live alone and have no other support, and I did get both of those from here. The only thing I was a little taken aback with is an assumption about what I buy and how I cook without knowing anything about me. I think another poster has referred to this.

It is very difficult to 'know' someone from words on a screen. The help and advice I have gleaned from various threads has been invaluable and, compared to other fora, the people here are amazing: some posters on those sites (I used to post on weather and aviation sites but the opprobrium was ridiculous) were extremely judgmental and downright rude. Like anything one reads on a website, common sense, self-knowledge and sometimes a healthy dose of scepticism are invaluable.

So, I'd just like to say a big thank you to all posters on the threads I have read - I've been given a pat on the head (which I didn't find condescending) and a virtual hug.

 

[Boo1979]

I'm guessing mine . For anyone who thinks I am trying to bully anyone on anything, I am not ( at least not deliberately). Forums are all about debate. I put forward a suggestion because I do think that there is a debate to be had about how strong the advice on the website should be about the lifestyle changes people can make. The reason that there is a certain amount of anguish about posters coming on too strong in initial posts for new people which effectively go further than @daisy1 advice is precisely because of that. Its not something I post about on newcomer threads.

The @daisy1 post is very good, however in my personal opinion it should make rather more emphasis on the nature of the changes that could be adopted and make it clearer that a focus on achieving control through diet is likely to lead to better long term outcomes than a reliance on medication.

Just a personal opinion. Not an attack on anyone who disagrees with me !

No it wasn't your name - it was no individual name but rather the dynamic where mutiple voices seem to feel the need to come onto a thread asking for advice, just to shout / repeat the same message at someone, particularly when there has been any voice offering a different view. Use of the agree button would be better otherwise its comes across as attempts (concious or otherwise) to drown out differing opinions / voices.

 

[Kentoldlady1]

Before anyone else throws the word 'bully' around, will you all please stop and think.

The moderation team take accusations of bullying very seriously, and if someone considers that bullying is happening, then they should report the post in question immediately for moderator consideration.

Debating un-named, un-evidenced cases of 'bullying' is highly destructive to everyone concerned and is likely to result in thread melt-down and mods stepping in to close down the discussion.

Basically, you need to provide evidence, in a private Report, otherwise you are making personal attacks on fellow forum members - which is against the rules.

Please also bear in mind that the same applies to people claiming to be defending themselves against being accused of 'bullying', since defending by attacking is still an attack.

So glad you posted this. Could not agree more. I posted very early on this thread. I think my post, which disagreed with the op, could have been taken as " bullying" if someone chose to see it in that light. Disagreement, as long as it is polite and well considered is not bullying, although I know it can feel like that. Having your opinions and dearly held beliefs taken apart on an open forum can feel like a bullying personal attack, when an outsider will see nothing but a disagreement.

I have read this thread and see little evidence of bullying . In fact, this forum is remarkably free from bullying. It is one of the best run forums I visit. However, I am afraid the apparent willingness to brand another person a bully on an open thread without any evidence is itself, bullying. As the mod has said, an attack is still an attack. If the original "victim" responds to another poster in a bullying way but the mods find no evidence of bullying then the "victim" turns into the bully. (Does that make sense?).

 

[Guzzler]

I am not convinced that there is a clamour by any particular group of members specifically to drown out the advice of others by use of comments or of the 'agree' tab. The agree tab is there simply to show agreement with a comment usually because a point has been well made.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I think this would help new members...In the Basic Information for new members it should say that any diet advice here is unofficial does not suit everyone and is not the recommended NHS guidelines but is just a personal choice It should be said so as not to mislead those who have not yet seen a nurse into thinking it is the official advice and they may start doing it when it could be unsuitable for them

 

[lucylocket61]

I think this would help new members...In the Basic Information for new members it should say that any diet advice here is unofficial does not suit everyone and is not the recommended NHS guidelines but is just a personal choice It should be so as not to mislead those who have not yet seen a nurse into thinking it is the official advice and they may start doing it when it could be unsuitable for them

I think thats a great idea.

 

[Kentoldlady1]

No it wasn't your name - it was no individual name but rather the dynamic where mutiple voices seem to feel the need to come onto a thread asking for advice, just to shout / repeat the same message at someone, particularly when there has been any voice offering a different view. Use of the agree button would be better otherwise its comes across as attempts (concious or otherwise) to drown out differing opinions / voices.

You are relying on a newbie knowing that the like or agree actually mean something. When I was a brand new t2d (june this year), with a phone call from a gp, a prescription for metformin and the vague promise of a dn appt in a month or so, I found the number of people who posted on my first help me thread vastly reassuring. I loved the fact that so many people had managed to control this disease without losing thier feet or sight and were willing to help me.

This just comes down to what one person thinks should be done, as in you seem to think that lots of people posting the same/similar thing is bullying and an attempt to drown out other voices, and my opinion, which is that several people posting along similar lines is incredibly supportive and as a newbie was just what I needed.

I dont think I have a right to stop you posting on a newbie thread or just confining you to a like button. I am sure that you would agree that you dont have the right to do that to me.

And, tbh, I dont think I understand the problem. Are you saying that all advice given on a thread should be given equal weight? So that if one person puts forward an idea then anyone who agrees should not post but just "agree"? Surely that would bring problems of its own?

 

[ickihun]

See how easy things get mis-concieved?

If the reader sees malice who is the malicious one?

All I'm asking is for people to not assume we are all the same.
We are not.

I like diversity. That's what makes the world interesting. I accept ever posters view but don't like heavy tactics, never have.

Maybe everyone should acceot bullying happens everywhere.
Why would this forum be any different.

Its how the perception of bulling leaves its victim.
I hope no posters feels bullied by me. I'd be horrified and apologise profusely, however stopping bad habits in its tracks, isn't bullying. Especially bad habits which have turned so many members away.
As they would be perceived the bully if the elephant in the room was requested to be talked about.
No subject should be taboo. No secrets or fear or speeching out.

Don't make me feel I'm the bully for opening a wound which needs fixing not a sticky plaster. Incase someone gets upset.
It is an upsetting subject. Not feeling free to post incase bombastered down.

An attack.

 

[ickihun]

I am concerned about the dangers of incorrect advice and especially dietary advice, to new people, who post and, in the first days and week get well meaning but, ultimately, incorrect advice. I think posters need to hold back more and only address diet when the person has got over the initial shock and stabilized, even type 2's. There is no way we know all the possible medical issues someone has from their first week of posting. Often advice is given when we dont even know if they are on medication or the type they are.

This is a great forum for support and I think the support has to come first, then the dietary advice, if appropriate, later. Even well established type 1's and type 2's on insulin and insulin affecting meds have a period of adjustment before they can make dietary changes, if they want to. A newbie has no chance, and may put them off trying again in the future.

I expect to get the replies of how much posters care about people addressing the dietary options as soon as possible, and standing up for what they know is true about low carbing but what about the importance of support emotionally and getting to know them first?

We all know that stress puts up bg levels. People who come on here are usually frightened, concerned, confused, stressed. Can we not address those first, rather than immediately adding the stress of telling them they have to change their diet in a way that the mainstream, and even their GP's do not recommend?

I am not suggesting we do not tell people of the benefits of low-carbs, but not until we know them better, know their situation more clearly, and have befriended them. That is why @daisy1 's post is so good and gives the advice someone needs to start out, so they then know the questions to ask for their situation, and have a small amount of info to deal with about potential life changes.

sorry for the essay.

To put the thread back in topic.
Yes we should be thoughtful about the fact, we are all different!

 

[walnut_face]

As good as Diabetes.co.uk might be, and IMHO it is. This bit is a forum, on the internet, where the knowledgeable and 'Nut cases' enjoy equal status. If anyone takes as gospel anything they read on the internet, they need to look out! They are responsible for themselves. Blaming anyone here for advice or lack of advice gets nowhere.
Thinking back to when I first read these forums, I remember after reading some posts a distinct uplifting feeling of hope. And hope dies last
In conclusion I do not believe there is a right or wrong answer to the conundrum of 'correct' advice.

At least it is not a "My diet is better than you diet" thread

 

[Boo1979]

You are relying on a newbie knowing that the like or agree actually mean something. When I was a brand new t2d (june this year), with a phone call from a gp, a prescription for metformin and the vague promise of a dn appt in a month or so, I found the number of people who posted on my first help me thread vastly reassuring. I loved the fact that so many people had managed to control this disease without losing thier feet or sight and were willing to help me.

This just comes down to what one person thinks should be done, as in you seem to think that lots of people posting the same/similar thing is bullying and an attempt to drown out other voices, and my opinion, which is that several people posting along similar lines is incredibly supportive and as a newbie was just what I needed.

I dont think I have a right to stop you posting on a newbie thread or just confining you to a like button. I am sure that you would agree that you dont have the right to do that to me.

And, tbh, I dont think I understand the problem. Are you saying that all advice given on a thread should be given equal weight? So that if one person puts forward an idea then anyone who agrees should not post but just "agree"? Surely that would bring problems of its own?

I tend to assume that if theres an agree button and someone has pressed it, then that is because they agree with the point being made and have nothing new they want to bring to the discussion. The sort of thread trails where I think using the agree button would be more appeopriate is where people are simplyrepeating what someone else has already said i.e the ones that go “ I do / did x and it really works well” followed by someone else coming in with “ I do / did x too and ir really works / worked for me too” ad nauseum. I have mostly seen those kind of trails where someone has questioned x or suggested y which is where it comes across as an attempt / an end result of drowing people out or starting a sometimes unpleasant, always adversarial dynamic

 

[Guzzler]

I tend to assume that if theres an agree button and someone has pressed it, then that is because they agree with the point being made and have nothing new they want to bring to the discussion. The sort of thread trails where I think using the agree button would be more appeopriate is where people are simplyrepeating what someone else has already said i.e the ones that go “ I do / did x and it really works well” followed by someone else coming in with “ I do / did x too and ir really works / worked for me too” ad nauseum. I have mostly seen those kind of trails where someone has questioned x or suggested y which is where it comes across as an attempt / an end result of drowing people out or starting a sometimes unpleasant, always adversarial dynamic

I think that when members 'edit to add' to their posts that they should make that clear but then that is just a matter of opinion, I suppose.