Information for newbies and basic stuff.

Mike d

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idiots who will not learn
That's why I said " Personally I don't believe in the cholesterol and statins narrative."

I "heard" what you said. I don't "see" the evidence, at least not in my experience. Research is better than blind trust
 
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Bryce74

Guest
I "heard" what you said. I don't "see" the evidence, at least not in my experience. Research is better than blind trust

Seems you misunderstood me: Personally I believe cholesterol as a cause of atherosclerose is much overrated, even questionable as a cause and statins are seldom indicated and a source of -sometimes very serious- adverse effects.
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,793
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Nonsense. I did not misread your intention nor your experience.
Both belong to you and it is not up to me to doubt them.

What I can't agree with is presenting one's own, personal experience/opinion as general advice. And THAT is exactly what you are doing.
Obviously we won't agree as you stick to your own experience and can't accept it can't be used as general advice.
I'll talk to moderators about this. For me, this is a serious issue, everybody is entitled to his own opinion and experience and free to talk about them in a forum but to present one's experience as "basic stuff" in a sticky topic is seriously misleading people. Sorry.
By now, I have read and understood your feelings towards my advice, I have thought long and hard and have adjusted that sentence.
I do hope that you will want to read it before commenting further.
However, as I am always open to how RH is seen to those and you clearly have a understanding. Can you tell me what tests they use in The Netherlands to diagnose RH? I would expect better treatment than our own health service in the UK.
Do you have specialist endocrinologists?
What particular foods are you intolerant to?
I have a lactose intolerance, do you have similar?
Are you gluten intolerant?
 
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Bryce74

Guest
By now, I have read and understood your feelings towards my advice, I have thought long and hard and have adjusted that sentence.
I do hope that you will want to read it before commenting further.
However, as I am always open to how RH is seen to those and you clearly have a understanding. Can you tell me what tests they use in The Netherlands to diagnose RH? I would expect better treatment than our own health service in the UK.
Do you have specialist endocrinologists?
What particular foods are you intolerant to?
I have a lactose intolerance, do you have similar?
Are you gluten intolerant?

It's not just that sentence. I think you should state that the general advice is that with reactive hypoglycemia a reduction to a moderate amount of carbohydrate is advised and that these carbohydrates should be mostly complex carbohydrates (contrary to refined ones).
After that you could state that some/many people here in the forum follow a low carb diet. Point is that if you pretend to give basic info, you cannot leave out the generally/widely accepted advice.

Same -and I repeat myself- with the (below) 4.0 mmol/l figure as a definition of hypoglycemia and not 3.5.

I was lucky to be diagnosed in our neighbour country Belgium by a knowing endocrinologist.
He used the oral glucose tolerance test and measured glucose, c-peptides, insuline and a few other things.
Afterwards my Dutch GP called the diagnosis "a wild tale by foreign doctors".... needless to say that I never saw that GP again.

The Dutch health care system is almost as much a disaster as the UK NHS.
Fortunately I have also access to the Belgian health care system and live close to the border with Belgium so now I have an excellent Belgian GP and if I need a specialist, I visit a Belgian one, too.
 

Mike d

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idiots who will not learn
Seems you misunderstood me: Personally I believe cholesterol as a cause of atherosclerose is much overrated, even questionable as a cause and statins are seldom indicated and a source of -sometimes very serious- adverse effects.

Perhaps I did ... but I'm very anti statins and could easily run a crusade against them
 

lindisfel

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5,659
I have had RH all my life. Runs in the family, probably.
I am not into low carb as it leads to high protein and/or fat intakes.

Well they were the ancestral foods for our preagricultural forebears.

Unless one was a card carrying Neanderthal vegan who wouldn't eat his gaint groundsloth burgers. :)
Derek
 
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Bryce74

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Well they were the ancestral foods for our preagricultural forebears.

Unless one was a card carrying Neanderthal vegan who wouldn't eat his gaint groundsloth burgers. :)
Derek

It's not that simple. First of all there are many thousands of years of evolution between us and them.
And secondly, both tribes that eat mostly carbohydrates and tribes that mainly eat meat have been discovered and apparantly in good health. So, personally, I don't believe in the carbs versus fats/protein "war". I believe in moderation for everything but on the other hand, if necessary I certainly would try going low carb if nothing else would work.
I just don't believe in dogmas and cult-like things.
 

lindisfel

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Ten thousand years is a tick on the clock of time. There is very little difference between us and our sapiens ancestors of 40,000 years ago.

I think some likel to argue, but most of us are comfortable and settled in our current situation if it works?
If sitting on the fence makes some enjoy having a sore backside, good luck to them.
The investment of time in this thread is not worth the energy!:)
D.
 
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Bryce74

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Ah right those people that told me my Type 2 was a chronic progressive disease and that I would end up injecting insulin?
That general medical establishment.. glad we got that sorted out.

You might not be injecting insulin which is a good thing of course, but who says your diabetes is not chronic and or progressive?
Did (very?) low carb cure you, can you normally eat carbs now?

I also read in your blog you had a coronary calcium score test. Apart from the fact that this test can be useless (my aunt had one, and 6 months later she had a severe heart attack), since (or not long before you had the test) you changed your diet while the radiologist told you to continue like you did before...
I hope that with the sudden change in diet, your next calcium score test won't be worse. But anyway, calcium score tests have limited value.
You are aware that you are using yourself as a guinea pig, I hope?
 
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Bryce74

Guest
Ten thousand years is a tick on the clock of time. There is very little difference between us and our sapiens ancestors of 40,000 years ago.

I think some likel to argue, but most of us are comfortable and settled in our current situation if it works?
If sitting on the fence makes some enjoy having a sore backside, good luck to them.
The investment of time in this thread is not worth the energy!:)
D.

Sorry to say but you yourself decided to chime in.
And does it really work, low carb? Maybe, maybe not. I feel neutral toward it. I believe it can help diabetics with blood sugar. Logical, more fat, more satisfied, weight loss, less carbs, lower blood sugar. But the greater amount of fats and proteins *might* be very dentrimental in the long run. But severe diabetes is too, of course.
If I had severe diabetes, I would give it a try. If I had "light" diabetes, I wouldn't.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
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19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
You might not be injecting insulin which is a good thing of course, but who says your diabetes is not chronic and or progressive?
Did (very?) low carb cure you, can you normally eat carbs now?

I also read in your blog you had a coronary calcium score test. Apart from the fact that this test can be useless (my aunt had one, and 6 months later she had a severe heart attack), since (or not long before you had the test) you changed your diet while the radiologist told you to continue like you did before...
I hope that with the sudden change in diet, your next calcium score test won't be worse. But anyway, calcium score tests have limited value.
You are aware that you are using yourself as a guinea pig, I hope?

My last 4 HbA1c maybe.. and why would I want to eat the things that made me ill in the first place.
That would be completely stupid don't you think?

You think that processed carbs are a part of a "normal" diet then I'm afraid you have given your mind over to the marketing guys.

As for the CAC scan I think that looking at plaque build up is a far better method than looking at the levels of cholesterol in the blood as a proxy. I thought you would at least agree with that. As for your Aunt what was her score?

The radiologist made no mention of diet so I'm not sure where you got that info from and I had already been ketogenic for 18 months before the scan.

If you had bothered to read my signature where I am quite happy to share almost all my health markers you would see that I happily admit that I am using myself as a guinea pig. I try all this stuff out on myself which is why I am currently fasting.

I see that you have decided to share nothing and instead seem to engage in overly criticising others. I do wonder exactly what your agenda is here?
 
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Bryce74

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My last 4 HbA1c maybe.. and why would I want to eat the things that made me ill in the first place.
That would be completely stupid don't you think?

You think that processed carbs are a part of a "normal" diet then I'm afraid you have given your mind over to the marketing guys.

As for the CAC scan I think that looking at plaque build up is a far better method than looking at the levels of cholesterol in the blood as a proxy. I thought you would at least agree with that. As for your Aunt what was her score?

The radiologist made no mention of diet so I'm not sure where you got that info from and I had already been ketogenic for 18 months before the scan.

If you had bothered to read my signature where I am quite happy to share almost all my health markers you would see that I happily admit that I am using myself as a guinea pig. I try all this stuff out on myself which is why I am currently fasting.

I see that you have decided to share nothing and instead seem to engage in overly criticising others. I do wonder exactly what your agenda is here?

Your HbA1c doesn't prove you were cured, it just proves you keep the values in check.
You were criticizing the medical establishment (and no, I am not part of them) for telling you your condition is chronic and progressive.
Well, if you were right and if you were not chronically suffering from diabetes and cured , you would be eating (more) carbohydrates again.

I never said that processed carbs are part of a "normal" diet. Refined carbs are not ok but complex carbohydrates are part of a healthy diet.

I don't know my aunts' exact score but at least it was good enough not to worry.
I agree a CAC scan is better than looking at cholesterol levels but unfortunately calcium score is just a little part of the whole story. I am not saying it is completely useless, it can give some information but it is not highly predictable.
It costs a lot of money and you get radiation:

"A study based on computer modeling of radiation risk suggests that widespread screening for the buildup of calcium in the arteries using computed tomography scans would lead to an estimated 42 additional radiation-induced cancer cases per 100,000 men and 62 cases per 100,000 women, according to a new report."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090713170655.htm

Of course I don't know your history. I think CAC is good for people with symptoms suggestive of cardiovascular disease, but otherwise it's quite useless, because imagine if they had found something, what would you do? Start taking statins?

As for the radiologist, it seems I misunderstood the text on your blog, my apologies.

I have reactive hypoglycemia, so I I simply don't have much in common with diabetes patients, apart from, of course the hypo's, the diet and the burden of disease.

Of course it's everyone's own decision to use him/herself as a guinea pig, as long as you are aware of it I am fine with it.

And I have no agenda at all, just came here for my reactive glycemia and I reacted to a few posts, is all.
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,793
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
It's not just that sentence. I think you should state that the general advice is that with reactive hypoglycemia a reduction to a moderate amount of carbohydrate is advised and that these carbohydrates should be mostly complex carbohydrates (contrary to refined ones).
After that you could state that some/many people here in the forum follow a low carb diet. Point is that if you pretend to give basic info, you cannot leave out the generally/widely accepted advice.


I was lucky to be diagnosed in our neighbour country Belgium by a knowing endocrinologist.

First of all, I'm not biting no more, you have an opinion which you have illustrated as being correct, I differ.
It is not just my work, it is a combination of opinions given permission by the trustees of this website.
As I have said before, generally accepted is wrong, simply because our condition, (not disease!) Is so diverse.
What worked for you, would not work for me.

You mentioned your endocrinologist, my endocrinologist has been a godsend. He saved my life and the years of discussion, has altered his belief that 'complex carbs' are part of a balanced diet, I proved through tests and time, that my body is healthiest when avoiding most carbs.

So I won't alter anything else, just because of your opinion.
I have been gracious in exceeding to your point of view, but unless the powers that be ask otherwise, I will leave the thread as is now.

Many thanks for your input.

Best wishes.
 

Ivey

Member
Messages
11
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Dislikes
hypoglycemia, arthritis, orthostatic hypotension, fainting, fibromyalgia. Basically I dislike being ill and being in pain.
Hi and welcome to our forum.

Reactive Hypoglycaemia, the basics!

What is Hypoglycaemia?

Hypoglycaemia is in response to your blood glucose levels going below a certain percentage of blood sugar.
Usually depending on personal experience anything below 3.5 is a hypo and should be treated.
There are differing opinions and some hypoglycaemiacs can live comfortably as low as 3.0

Reactive Hypoglycaemia is a condition, where your pancreas over produces too much Insulin for the meal you have digested.
Reactive Hypoglycaemia or post prandial hypoglycaemia is a medical term describing recurrent episodes of symptomatic Hypoglycaemia occurring within four hours after a high carbohydrate meal or oral glucose load in people who do not have diabetes.
It is thought to represent a consequence of excessive insulin release triggered by the carb meal but continuing past the digestion and disposal of glucose derived from the meal.
So depending on what you eat, your blood glucose response and your body's ability to cope with carbs and sugars, the excess insulin and the very quick hyper (high blood sugar) within an hour. The drop to normal levels, but it continues to drop to a low blood sugar level (hypo).
The condition is unique because the hormonal response to carbs and glucose. We spike quickly, we do not have a lull in our spike, in others, the spike is interrupted in its climb, RH ers don't! We use up our glucose from the meal. Hence the speed of our hyper. When we treat our hypos, we fluctuate between highs and lows, hence the excessive symptoms and why our brain is bombarded with different psychological associated symptoms.
I didn't want to make this too scientific, there is a lot of science information on the internet. I did say this was basic!

Symptoms

Symptoms vary from Individuals hydration levels, according to Wikipedia!
The sensitivity of the rate and magnitude of decline of their blood glucose concentration.
They include;

Blurred vision.
Headaches.
Frequent urination.
Depression.
Unclear thinking.
Nervousness.
Sleep disruption or insomnia.
Muscle twitches.
Heart palpitations or fibrillation.
Irritability.
Fatigue.
Tremors.
Dizziness.
Flushing.
Lightheadedness.
Craving sweets.
Sweating.
Increased appetite.
Rhinitis.
Vomiting.
Nausea.
Panic attack.
Numbness.
Coldness in the extremities.
Confusion.
Irrational.
Bad tempered.
Disoriented.
Anxiety.
Anger.
Rage.
Coma. Can occur in extreme conditions in severe untreated episodes.

There are others, but it shows how diverse the symptoms are!

I personally did not have all the symptoms, but only missed out on a few!

Types of Hypoglycaemia.

Alimentary Hypoglycaemia. Or dumping syndrome. Prevalent after stomach surgery.
Hormonal Hypoglycaemia. Hypothyroidism.
Helicobacter Hypoglycaemia. Pylori induced gastritis. Bacteria in the gut and through digestion.
Congenital enzyme deficiencies. Fructose intolerance.
Late Reactive Hypoglycaemia. Used to be called idiopathic hypoglycaemia.
Because they have not found any known cause and is rare!
This is me! Naturally weird!

Causes.

As I've already said, I developed my condition naturally.
But usually it is prevalent after stomach surgery.
Trauma.
Fructose intolerance, usually hereditary.
I believe diet should be one of the causes, but there is nothing or research to back it up!
Also no way has been found to create insulin overshoot.

Treatment.

This is open to discussion.
However, a low carbohydrate intake is recommended by consensus on this forum.
No sugar.
Eating regularly. Depending on individual, seven to nine small meals per day. Small plate size is important because of protein and calorie intake.
Exercise is important. Walking does lower blood glucose levels. Anything strenuous will temporarily increase your blood glucose levels, exercise is good for you! Just don't overdo it!

In my experience of continuous hypos and hypers, one after another!
I have found the best way to avoid further hypers and hypos is to eat regularly throughout the day.
To treat a hypo, well, what I do is make a cuppa of tea, eat a biscuit, plain or something that is low carb, and sit and relax, this will raise your blood glucose levels slowly, then within a half hour, have a very small low carb meal.
Hopefully you won't hyper, so no hypo! No fluctuating blood glucose sugar levels.

Foods to avoid.

We recommend a low carbohydrate lifestyle.
Sugars and carbohydrates are the foods that you don't tolerate well. And you 'react' to them.
Obviously you cannot not eat carbs as they are everywhere, but avoid the starchy ones and the fructose sugars in fruit. As with all blood glucose disorders, there are some foods that you can eat very small amounts of, but the only way to know is to test and experiment.
Flour of all grains are to be avoided.
Factory made food is full of what is known as production sugars and ingredients such as corn syrup.
Tinned products such as soups.
Rice.
Pasta.
Fast food. Even the meat is processed.
Some RH ers can be tolerant to dairy products and lactose, which is a sugar.
Low, reduced or no fat products! Such as yoghurt! The full fat is replaced by processed sugars.
Confectionery.


Some patients who have Reactive Hypoglycaemia, can also have T2 diabetes, but not the other way around.
Diabetic hypoglycaemia can be caused by drugs or by not eating regularly.
This does not include T1 or T2 diabetics who regularly hypo because they have to have insulin injections because of insulin resistance.
Most RH ers are not diabetic.
If your fasting hba1c level is normal, then you are not diabetic.There is always those who can attain normal levels through diet but are susceptible to diabetic levels.

There are no medication that have yet to recognised just for RH. But there are trials and research.
There is no known cure for Reactive Hypoglycaemia!

As I've said, this is the basics, from a layman who has the condition.
I've been through hypo hell, done the tests and experimentation and found myself fit and healthy again after a lot of years.

Hope this helps, those who find themselves in need of information.

Welcome to the forum.



Thanks for this, I have just started to look at my yogurt suspiciously, as I noticed a new brand I bought dropped my glucose horrendously!! I started at 80 (4.4 in UK) and found myself at 32 (1.8 in UK) 30 mins later. I thought I might have to cut dairy out but it's a big source of protein for me. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me and see what else I can come up with.

Many Thanks,
Ivey
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,659
Thanks for this, I have just started to look at my yogurt suspiciously, as I noticed a new brand I bought dropped my glucose horrendously!! I started at 80 (4.4 in UK) and found myself at 32 (1.8 in UK) 30 mins later. I thought I might have to cut dairy out but it's a big source of protein for me. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me and see what else I can come up with.

Many Thanks,
Ivey
You get some bizarre results from foods if some cut your blood glucose back as you say! They sound like fast acting insulin.
I would get checked out by endo if I were you.
 

Ivey

Member
Messages
11
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Dislikes
hypoglycemia, arthritis, orthostatic hypotension, fainting, fibromyalgia. Basically I dislike being ill and being in pain.
You get some bizarre results from foods if some cut your blood glucose back as you say! They sound like fast acting insulin.
I would get checked out by endo if I were you.

I have seen 2 Endo doctors and they both say it's reactive hypoglycemia, a rare complication from gastric bypass surgery, as there is nothing wrong with my endocrine system. Even though my cortisol and C-Peptide tests came back low 4 days in a row (72hr fasting test). Right now seems like everything except salad, zucchini, chicken thighs, some fish, bison, lamb, green veg, a third of a carrot, less than a quarter cup of peas, water, coffee, tea, coconut water (the lowest in sugar I found is 8 grams per serving), bamboo shoots, bean sprouts, water chestnuts and broccoli don't drop my glucose. I have to be careful with sauces and condiment as they contain corn starch or other food starches which drop my glucose. I see my Endo again this week and will see what he says about my latests results and about my update on my glucose/food diary. I will just keep trying and testing and adding or subtracting from my food lists until they can give me more info. I am afraid to ask but am beginning to think this is a permanent condition?!?
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,659
Sorry to hear of your food limitations, Ivey.
I know what its like because I have an adrenal tumour and can't get rid of sodium as well as R.H. Ones food choices are restricted.

Sometimes gastric bypasses miss out the small intestine from what I have read and this improves the tolerance to carb content. But your situation seems to indicate you may have more issues than simply R.H.
The foods that drop your b.g. perhaps raise it to a peak first, possibly c. 1hr after first bite?

It seems you'll have to eat little and often.
regards
Derek
 
Last edited:

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,793
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Thanks for this, I have just started to look at my yogurt suspiciously, as I noticed a new brand I bought dropped my glucose horrendously!! I started at 80 (4.4 in UK) and found myself at 32 (1.8 in UK) 30 mins later. I thought I might have to cut dairy out but it's a big source of protein for me. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me and see what else I can come up with.

Many Thanks,
Ivey

What type of yoghurt was this, low fat, no fat, full fat, with fruit?
I have seen 2 Endo doctors and they both say it's reactive hypoglycemia, a rare complication from gastric bypass surgery, as there is nothing wrong with my endocrine system. Even though my cortisol and C-Peptide tests came back low 4 days in a row (72hr fasting test). Right now seems like everything except salad, zucchini, chicken thighs, some fish, bison, lamb, green veg, a third of a carrot, less than a quarter cup of peas, water, coffee, tea, coconut water (the lowest in sugar I found is 8 grams per serving), bamboo shoots, bean sprouts, water chestnuts and broccoli don't drop my glucose. I have to be careful with sauces and condiment as they contain corn starch or other food starches which drop my glucose. I see my Endo again this week and will see what he says about my latests results and about my update on my glucose/food diary. I will just keep trying and testing and adding or subtracting from my food lists until they can give me more info. I am afraid to ask but am beginning to think this is a permanent condition?!?

You might not get the answers you are looking for.
I believe you are already on the right track by eliminating the food that is upsetting you.
You have normal fasting blood levels, your hba1c is in normal levels, you don't have endocrine issues.
But, your RH from your surgery, means that your pancreas overshoots insulin.
If you are not aware, since surgery, you first insulin response has grown weak, hence the spikes, you either get glucose dumping or you get a secondary insulin response which is the overshoot.
Only when you don't trigger the secondary response do you avoid the after effects of RH. This is achieved as you have already discovered is by your food list.

I have searched for years trying to find any research, but to no avail, I have read articles which misunderstand how it can be so horrible because of the normal health advice which doesn't take in to account why certain foods have to be avoided, how certain fats, certain so called healthy foods are not healthy for us. How processed foods have to be put back on the shelf. Why we have to cook from scratch to make certain that what we eat won't effect our health. Why we have to shop and recognise bad ingredients, even what or when it is beneficial to fast, if we can.
There is no magic pill that will cure, though I take a drug (sitagliptin) that helps with spikes, but not the hypos if I don't eat properly.
Wether it is permanent, I have no idea, but I don't want to take the risk, my battle for nearly twenty years was my hypo hell period, I'm not going back to that.
The good news, is it can be controlled and by control, your health should improve. Having your blood sugar levels being in normal levels more and more, or being in ketosis, it will improve your symptoms and your health.
I know this, because that is what has happened to me, I have been in ketosis for four years (ish), no hypos! Excellent health and fitness.
This is the way I would encourage and advise anyone having the symptoms and diagnosis of Hypoglycaemia.

By the way, I'm dairy intolerant, have been since childhood, it has got to be the lactose, which triggers the symptoms and response.

Best wishes