The one show discussion

[hankjam]

. The Dr just said nine weeks of the diet would break bad eating habits!

As they say... good luck with that... the battle might be won but the war never finishes...

 

[lindisfel]

the weight loss part of the dietary success does not explain how those like me have managed to control our type 2 diabetes without much, or any, weight loss.

I still maintain that it is the dietary changes, not the weight loss itself, which make the difference. I mean, the reduction in intake = an automatic reduction in carbs.

Apparently the good aspects of low carb work immediately. Re lower BP!
Not because of weight loss, but because high insulin drives metabolic disease in most T2D, from what I have read.
D.

 

[lucylocket61]

and their idea of a bad diet to break would be eating saturated fats and not eating enough carbs - of whatever sort.

and assumes that fat people have bad habits rather than faulty mechanisms.

 

[rab5]

Obesity is a symptom not the problem from my reading of literature

 

[lucylocket61]

I do think that the continuation of programmes of this type perpetuated the idea that obesity causes type 2 diabetes.

and make it harder for people like me. I get put in the same category as those who are heavy smokers and get lung cancer, or binge drinkers who get liver complaints. Its hard enough already to be subjected to comments and looks when I eat out, or go shopping or am in the doctors surgery for unrelated issues.

It encourages fat shaming and blaming, and the mob mentality. What ever happened to critical thinking and cause and effect reasoning?

and the advice in these programmes makes it worse. its all about low fat, high carb high fruit.

 

[rab5]

Your right. People are very quick to judge. Taking obesity as an example it’s easier to blame the victim of the western diet than to have to think about the causes It’s infuriating. I have been guilty of this very crime if I’m honest.

 

[jayney27]

Ok so BBC Breakfast featured the Dr and a different participant in the trial. A lady who lost 5 stone who admitted she’d put back on 8lbs since the ‘experiment’ finished. She had reversed her high blood pressure. Still no specifics on what they were eating after the nine weeks. The Dr just said nine weeks of the diet would break bad eating habits!

I'm not sure that everyone would be a reformed eater after just 9 weeks, its a lifetime commitment if you want to control health and or weight. We didn't revert after we achieved our initial goals whether they were weight loss, reduced meds or controlled BG's, we have continued with our new eating plans, if we didn't we would be back where we started or worse. Unless these people have a vested interest in keeping the weight off they will return to bad habits as they haven't really learnt what not to eat.

 

[first14808]

Ok so BBC Breakfast featured the Dr and a different participant in the trial. A lady who lost 5 stone who admitted she’d put back on 8lbs since the ‘experiment’ finished. She had reversed her high blood pressure. Still no specifics on what they were eating after the nine weeks. The Dr just said nine weeks of the diet would break bad eating habits!

I think that might be a dangerous assumption. So there's plenty of evidence for the problems of 'yo-yo' dieting, ie do an X week diet plan, then slip back into bad eating habits. I think this type of diet might be a great idea as a 'safe' crash-diet to treat things like the high blood pressure, or pre-op to reduce surgical complications. But if people go back to a high-carb diet, I expect they'll inevitably gain weight.

So I think it needs to be combined with good (ie not Eatwell) nutritional advice to follow post-diet. And ideally some exercise because there's a vicious circle. Weight increases, exercise becomes harder, less exercise, more weight and circulatory complications.

 

[AdamJames]

From the BBC website...

Crash diets have long had a bad reputation, but some experts say it's time to think again about the black sheep of the dieting world.

Dr Javid Abdelmoneim teams up with some of Britain's top scientists in a bold new experiment that puts the latest research on crash dieting to the test. Four obese volunteers with serious weight-related health issues, including type 2 diabetes, go on an extreme weight-loss programme and give up real food, surviving on a very low calorie soups-and-shakes diet.

Will they lose weight in the long run and turn around their health problems? If it works, this radical approach to weight loss could help millions, save the NHS billions of pounds and revolutionise the way we diet.

... so there will definitely be reference to diabetes. Should be interesting.

 

[bulkbiker]

Your right. People are very quick to judge. Taking obesity as an example it’s easier to blame the victim of the western diet than to have to think about the causes It’s infuriating. I have been guilty of this very crime if I’m honest.

I think we all have to be honest... especially when the person concerned is a GP or DN who is telling you to lose weight while not being the picture of health themselves..

 

[jayney27]

I think we all have to be honest especially when the person concerned is a GP or DN who is telling you to lose weight while not being the picture of health themselves..

That's very true, my DN is very trim and is most likely at the "ideal" weight for her height she is very understanding in her approach to discussing weight and is very good at congratulating success. I cannot comment on my Dr as I've not met them! my previous GP retired and was definitely over weight, its hard to have someone sitting in judgement of you and giving you "advise" that they don't appear to follow themselves.

 

[lucylocket61]

That's very true, my DN is very trim and is most likely at the "ideal" weight for her height she is very understanding in her approach to discussing weight and is very good at congratulating success. I cannot comment on my Dr as I've not met them! my previous GP retired and was definitely over weight, its hard to have someone sitting in judgement of you and giving you "advise" that they don't appear to follow themselves.

we do not know how hard people have tried to lose weight. There are a number of us on here, including myself, who try very hard to lose weight, year after year, continuously, and our bodies will not let go of the weight.

Up until 2012 I followed the dietary advice of the NHS and continually dieted as well, and my weight problem got worse as it increased my insulin resistance. Since then, my weight gain has stopped with me doing medium fat, lowish carbs. I have even lost 2 stones over the past 5+ years but, despite my best and ongoing efforts, I am stuck at morbidly obese.

weight gain in type 2 diabetics is a symptom and consequence of their diabetes, not the cause. I suspect many of the people we see in the street and elsewhere who are fat may have insulin resistance issues which are neither recognised or diagnosed. In which case, their efforts to diet the 'traditional' way are counter productive. Then they are subject to comments from others about not trying hard enough or not following medical advice etc.

I dont know about England, but here in Wales it is rare, very rare, to get a blood sugar test unless there are other issues going on, by which time the IR can be decades old. Quite apart from all the slim undiagosed type 2's.

 

[first14808]

I dont know about England, but here in Wales it is rare, very rare, to get a blood sugar test unless there are other issues going on, by which time the IR can be decades old. Quite apart from all the slim undiagosed type 2's.

I guess the good news is the 'epidemic' is getting a lot more attention, which should translate to more research funding. And hopefully combined with public awareness to try and overcome preconceptions. Downside is quality studies take time, and there can also be policy lag while things are debated, or just recruiting and training more dieticians. Or retraining existing ones not to blindly follow the Eatwell guidance.

Assuming people have been following that, then something is obviously wrong with diets, as evidenced by the 'obesity epidemic'. Challenge is I doubt there's a one-size fits all diet & proper advice needs to be tailored to an indvidual's metabolism, activity level, gender, age etc etc. But I think there's hope, eg the existence of CGMs that would give clinicians/dieticians or just the individual a much better idea if their diet is working for them, or not. I'm also a big fan of body composition monitors since getting mine. Being able to see & trend more than just weight has been really helpful with my diet changes. I'm still not convinced by it's metabolic age function. According to that, I've lost 12 years as well as 15kg

 

[ringi]

It look's like a disappointing attempt to show the only way to lose weight is a crash diet (hence the title) and giving up "real food" for diet shakes (going to assume low fat diet shakes).

The program next week is on low carb diets............... And from what some people are saying on twitter who were filmed for it, I am expecting it to be good.

 

[ringi]

A lady who lost 5 stone who admitted she’d put back on 8lbs since the ‘experiment’ finished.

Most people put some weight back on, partly it is the water people lose in the first week of a low carb diet. (Think about how many carbs per day they have on that diet....... It a low everything diet.)

 

[ringi]

and their idea of a bad diet to break would be eating saturated fats and not eating enough carbs - of whatever sort.

and assumes that fat people have bad habits rather than faulty mechanisms.

Lots of fat people are drinking many cans of full sugar drinks a day, and eating lots of cakes and crisps etc between meals. Hence breaking these habits are worthwhile regardless of not agreeing on why crisps are bad for example.

 

[ringi]

There is nothing special about “The Newcastle diet” these diet shakes were on the market for many decades before Prof Taylor did his research. But before he published his research, doctors did not believe they work, as crash diets were thought to always fail. Recent research has shown that the speed of weight loss does not lead to people being more likely to regain the weight. Hence “crush” low carb diets like “The New Atkins for a New You” can be a good option. People also tend to keep to them better, as the commitment is for a shorter time.

We tend to tell people to start slowly, as it is easier with meds, and their blood glucose meter can be used to motivate them, with reducing carbs until they get to the level they can cope with. But doing it the other way round, going VERY low carb, then once the weight is lost; slowly increasing carbs can also work.

There are many people on this forum who have used the shakes, and then moved onto some sort of moderate low carb “diet” getting great results.

 

[jayney27]

we do not know how hard people have tried to lose weight. There are a number of us on here, including myself, who try very hard to lose weight, year after year, continuously, and our bodies will not let go of the weight.

Up until 2012 I followed the dietary advice of the NHS and continually dieted as well, and my weight problem got worse as it increased my insulin resistance. Since then, my weight gain has stopped with me doing medium fat, lowish carbs. I have even lost 2 stones over the past 5+ years but, despite my best and ongoing efforts, I am stuck at morbidly obese.

weight gain in type 2 diabetics is a symptom and consequence of their diabetes, not the cause. I suspect many of the people we see in the street and elsewhere who are fat may have insulin resistance issues which are neither recognised or diagnosed. In which case, their efforts to diet the 'traditional' way are counter productive. Then they are subject to comments from others about not trying hard enough or not following medical advice etc.

I dont know about England, but here in Wales it is rare, very rare, to get a blood sugar test unless there are other issues going on, by which time the IR can be decades old. Quite apart from all the slim undiagosed type 2's.

I understand the points made here, my old GP admitted he wasn't a good example for his patients but at the same time didn't seem bothered by his weight.

I remember my first diabetic appointment where I was told that I would no doubt see other people who were bigger than I was and assume they would also be diabetic, however, this isn't always correct, some diabetics are ideal weight or under weight but still have this condition, I guess they were trying to make me feel better, but it didn't, I felt it was very judgemental and for some people that actually might be quite a damaging statement to make.

I had always eaten what I considered a healthy diet and managed to loose weight if I wanted too, this said it always crept back on, so I was a little bit shocked when I was advised on what to eat when I was diagnosed, I thought how if I already eat these foods am I in this situation? it wasn't until discovering the damage done to some of by high carbohydrate foods I enjoyed and considered healthy that I questioned my food choices and decided to limit the carbs.

My only conclusion is that we are all different and that no one method of BG management or weight loss is for everyone, I am of the mind-set that so long as something isn't going to do me obvious harm, I will try it, if it works or is pleasurable I keep doing it, if not, I try something else. I grew up being told that "one mans meat is another mans poison" and I guess this is true for us diabetics, what works for me won't necessarily be the right thing for someone else.

Good luck to us all regardless of the path we take in controlling this condition.

 

[Pipp]

I do think that the continuation of programmes of this type perpetuated the idea that obesity causes type 2 diabetes.

and make it harder for people like me. I get put in the same category as those who are heavy smokers and get lung cancer, or binge drinkers who get liver complaints. Its hard enough already to be subjected to comments and looks when I eat out, or go shopping or am in the doctors surgery for unrelated issues.

It encourages fat shaming and blaming, and the mob mentality. What ever happened to critical thinking and cause and effect reasoning?

and the advice in these programmes makes it worse. its all about low fat, high carb high fruit.

How do you know the programme content before it is aired?

 

[Pipp]

I'm not sure that everyone would be a reformed eater after just 9 weeks, its a lifetime commitment if you want to control health and or weight. We didn't revert after we achieved our initial goals whether they were weight loss, reduced meds or controlled BG's, we have continued with our new eating plans, if we didn't we would be back where we started or worse. Unless these people have a vested interest in keeping the weight off they will return to bad habits as they haven't really learnt what not to eat.

This assumes the fat people had bad eating habits.