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Militant Low Carbing & Body Shaming - What's Your View?

bulkbiker said:
I notice that @tim2000s hasn't linked to the tweet concerned but has given us his and Partha Kar's opinion.

You all know my disdain for misrepresentation so here is a link to the original tweet that started the whole thing off.

https://twitter.com/lowcarbdiabetic/status/1009747671953956864
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No, because unfortunately the PC I am using is blocked from Twitter :(

bulkbiker said:
That's Tim and Partha Kar's interpretation.. not necessarily everybody elses'.. that's why I posted a link to the initial tweet to let people make up their own minds rather than be influenced by the opening post.
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And I think you'll find that I asked a question rather than expressed an opinion in my original post. I think it raises interesting questions.

zand said:
@tim2000s I am wondering what your motive was in posting this? This forum is a nice place to be now, why bring up old hurts?
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Nothing to do with Eddie really, more about the following question:

If you are held up as an advocate for a way of life/diet/etc, and then tagged into a conversation like this as an avid Twitter user, it's very difficult to not be aware of it. It's interesting that @Southport GP commented contra to the thread whilst none of the others did (and he wasn't tagged in the initial post).

The question for me becomes "When you are in a position of Authority/Importance, do you ignore something that you may or may not disagree with, in the hope it goes silent, at the risk of being seen to advocate it or do you participate in the discussion, disagreeing with OP at risk of continuing the conversation and risk raising the profile of it even more?"

That's where this one is tricky...
 
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Surely if the advice is good advice or bad come to that it is down to the individual to choose whether or not they follow it.

If a GP gives advice over the phone regarding nutrition to someone who has never met that Dr before (and vice versa) and have no idea what they look like what difference would it make. Their job is to give advice and guidance and if they do that then they have done their job.

If a salesman working for BMW drives a Citroen what does is matter. Do people start calling him a hypocrite and refuse to purchase a BMW because they have just found out he doesn't drive one!. There are literally thousands of scenarios like this. It boils down to people saying "practice what you preach" even if what that person is preaching is good sound advice that will benefit them.

Granted it may be hypocritical but hypocrisy is not the issue. The issue is the advice and guidance being given and whether the person will benefit if it is followed. It should have absolutely nothing to do with what the person giving the advice looks like or the way they choose to live their life.
 
tim2000s said:
The question for me becomes "When you are in a position of Authority/Importance, do you ignore something that you may or may not disagree with, in the hope it goes silent, at the risk of being seen to advocate it or do you participate in the discussion, disagreeing with OP at risk of continuing the conversation and risk raising the profile of it even more?"

That's where this one is tricky...
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Yes it is tricky. I think if it were me I would reply (like I did in this thread even though I really didn't want to get involved again.) However next time (and there will be a next time!) I will probably ignore it. Maybe that's what happened with the people in authority who didn't comment? Maybe they have done so before. I agree it looks bad, but I would rather not judge.....;)
 
tim2000s said:
No, because unfortunately the PC I am using is blocked from Twitter :(


And I think you'll find that I asked a question rather than expressed an opinion in my original post. I think it raises interesting questions.


Nothing to do with Eddie really, more about the following question:

If you are held up as an advocate for a way of life/diet/etc, and then tagged into a conversation like this as an avid Twitter user, it's very difficult to not be aware of it. It's interesting that @Southport GP commented contra to the thread whilst none of the others did (and he wasn't tagged in the initial post).

The question for me becomes "When you are in a position of Authority/Importance, do you ignore something that you may or may not disagree with, in the hope it goes silent, at the risk of being seen to advocate it or do you participate in the discussion, disagreeing with OP at risk of continuing the conversation and risk raising the profile of it even more?"

That's where this one is tricky...
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Seriously, @tim2000s, put in such a position, I would leave those who are so inclined to speculate on my lack of response, because generally people will already have formed an opinion and so nothing I would say would make them change that opinion. The sort of Twitter debate you hghlighted, or indeed any similar sort of online controversial subject, (particularly where 'shaming' of one sort or another is concerned) tends to feed and thrive on the response to them. The instigators love the thrill of the argument.
 
Goonergal said:
Body shaming is not acceptable
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Which is perhaps why it's best to avoid. We will all see this differently, but if someone is going to say something stupid it's not worth giving them the time of day . . . . . or the publicity they seek. Please see the definition of "troll".
 
bulkbiker said:
But we all do it? Don't we? In our minds if not out loud...

If you were sent to a dietician for eating advice and they were obese would you not question the quality of that advice?

Or maybe I'm just a body shaming old fascist..
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Well I feel that way. I did comment on that post and I can see that most people feel the views expressed are fat shaming and cruel. I was thinking more that it is sad that like many of the people who have been advised on healthy eating over the last 30 years, I feel misled on how I ate and how I fed my family and sad that the dietitians were equally misled in their training overy so many years. But I have refected on the reaction and I will be more careful in future.
 
I hope we are not going to be too self-righteous. Give me a person who has not put a foot wrong and he/she has never done anything.
I have put my foot in it many times and I am not embarrassed to admit it.

I remember someone saying once, and he was not known for making mistakes. "Let him who has no sin throw the first stone."
I think the professionals were wise to keep quiet.
 
I new a cardiovascular surgeon who smoked a lot more cigs in a day than I do, he was still one of the best surgeons about.

Mind you I once had a medical officer in the RAF who lectured me on my smoking while blowing smoke from his cigarette in my face while giving me an exam for a chest infection.
 
tim2000s said:
On Twitter yesterday there was a highly inflammatory and very emotional discussion long thread where "militant" Low Carbers were posting photos of dietitians, body shaming them, saying "No wonder the NHS is giving bad advice, look at how fat all these dietitians are" [transposed - not actual words used]. The people in question making the posting will be well known to long term members of the forum.

As part of this, some very well known low carb advocates were named in the initial tweets (Zoe Harcombe, Aseem Malhotra, Tim Noakes), and none of them bothered to comment dissociating themselves from the body shaming approach that the perpetrator was undertaking (and other participants continued with).

As a result, Partha Kar wrote this blog post: http://nhssugardoc.blogspot.com/2018/06/diets-and-shaming.html, which Zoe Harcombe took offence at.

My question to the forum - as a centre of Low Carb excellence, do you agree with Partha, or do you think that the named doctors were right to make no comment whatsoever on being associated with body shaming and diet?
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Everyone has a right to silence. Of course, it's dammed if you do and dammed if you don't!
I wish people would stick to their own beliefs to themselves instead of pushing/bullying their ways on others. A very fine line for some.
Give educated info but no bullying or forcing others to think like you. It's not right nor beneficial.
Like any lifestyle it can become extreme and cult-like. Any lifestyle, even a bad one. Many people encourage friends to drink alcohol but if it becomes obsessive or bully like to fit in then that is where I find alarming. Group peer pressure can be a negative thing as well as a positive one.

I listen, then make my own mind up.
 
For me it's about the private versus the public arena. Fat shaming is just awful. We have a deep understanding of this. (Who doesn't get bullying?) And the deep sense of not being in control of forces that make/made us fat. (Pre enlightenment! ;):)) And, how wonderfully yummy high carb food is!

Would I make that observation, about dieticians having their own bad advice backfire on them? in private? Yes. And I have been known to comment on very slim dieticians too, as in "What the heck do they know about struggling with weight?" type of comments. In private anyway. (Or maybe to the odd endocrinologist.) Mostly I don't notice the vagaries of people's weight (unless they are telling me what to eat, I think, which is what many people above are saying) but my partner is way blunter than way-blunt me, and makes these observations and comments on what that means vis a vis their dietary and nutritional advice. He just sees it as evidence of what works and what doesn't, and on 'compliance' issues I guess. And I do end up agreeing with him. But go on twitter and post pix? No way! On any public platform.

But, if someone with significant excess body fat challenged me in person, in a public or private platform, on the LCHF diet and fat storage as compared to the HCLF, I would indeed use observable physical realities as points of evidence, but just using my own body. I have done it with my Aunt in her kitchen. She asked me how I knew that dietary fat does not make you physically fat. (And my theory that our family has a bad reaction to wheat and grains.) I showed her mine, but I did not point out hers! Would I post even that conversation and pix of my tummy on twitter and share with family? Let alone 'the public'? Heck no! (I love my Aunt.)
 
I caught some of what went on in those twitter feeds & noticed that a 'militant' high carber took the opportunity to fat shame Richard Morris, Carl Franklin & Jimmy Moore. Someone also stated that they thought Professor Noakes looked far too thin & sickly. Two wrongs don't make a right - just felt compelled to mention it for the sake of balance.
 
bulkbiker said:
I saw that and lifted the link but I feel it is also very relevant to this thread as well...
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Oh indeed it is, I just wondered if you had seen the contact details if you wanted to complain?
 
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