Endocrinologist Said...type 2 Can Be Cured

[bulkbiker]

It reminds me of that old, stupid joke. You know, the guy goes to the doctor and he's bent and twisted his arm behind his back, and he says, "Doc... when I do this, it hurts!" and the Doc replies, "Stop doing that, then", and then guy is all "I'm cured!"

If we treat our bodies badly, they break. If we stop, they recover. If we then start treating them badly (just like if we twist our arms behind our backs again), they'll just break again.

Does "cured" need to be a word we use? I feel far more empowered by the notion that I got it under control and am keeping it there. I don't need a cure: I did it for myself.

This a thousand times over.

 

[briped]

"Well, I'm cured! I can do anything I like!" they think

Too true. Briped ver. 2006 - alpha had that bug. Briped ver. 2018.01 has been updated and patched with this forum and experience.

 

[Hiitsme]

In the UK it's called "remission" and is formally declared (like a peace treaty in a war!) when you've had 2 HbA1c readings of less than 42 in a row. This is because, at this level you are considered to have very good control and be out of the danger zone for all the T2D nasties: as long as you stay at that level of control you will, indeed, be okay.

Where do you get the idea that 2 HbA1c's less than 42 in a row is called remission in UK? I did try to talk to my GP about this but he said it was excellent control but still diabetic. I would love a formal declaration!

 

[briped]

@Petaluk Congratulations on you great result. Well done, and here I could do with several congratulatory emojis, because this calls for a celebration! I hope you agree with all comments and stay in remission for ever after Just don't do whatever I did back in 2006 when my GP jubilantly took me off my meds. I didn't have a BG thingy, and as far as I remember nobody kept an eye on me after that.

 

[KK123]

Very interesting thread. The way I look at it is if a person with a nut allergy stops eating nuts and remains healthy, are they cured? Of course not, they will always have a body that identifies nuts as an enemy. Eat nuts and die, eat (too many) carbs and suffer.

 

[Resurgam]

I think that I have altered my body from leaving carbs in my blood to taking them into fatstore, by low carbing unbroken for almost 20 months now, but I still do not do the usual thing with carbs, I just cope a bit better on a biochemical level. Luckily it is an option I can live with, and I probably lived with it for decades before diagnosis during the times I was allowed to low carb, but my response to a 'normal' diet - even one intended to reduce my weight or cholesterol should have waved a red flag for diabetes long ago.
I was so ill when ordered to eat carbs during my second pregnancy - we are so vulnerable at such times - I was threatened with separation from my family and being fed properly, so I was taught to lie about what I ate. A normal diet has been wrong for me all my adult life, a biochemical nonsense as far as I was concerned.

 

[Mbaker]

I would be careful eating "normally" this means high sugar, fast processed foods (Frankenstein stuff in my opinion) in a modern context.

 

[DCUKMod]

In the UK it's called "remission" and is formally declared (like a peace treaty in a war!) when you've had 2 HbA1c readings of less than 42 in a row. This is because, at this level you are considered to have very good control and be out of the danger zone for all the T2D nasties: as long as you stay at that level of control you will, indeed, be okay.

But that's often a flash point for T2's: "Well, I'm cured! I can do anything I like!" they think - and they return to the Eatwell Plate and take up going to the gym twice a week (with those lovely sports drinks), and have the occasional slice of cake at birthdays and Christmas and, because they're "in remission", no-one's really looking at their control anymore... so they slip.

It's not anyone's fault. It's that until really very recently, Type 2 Diabetes was seen as a progressive, life-changing disease that had no cure and no real management strategy. The notion of remission - of the T2 Diabetic taking active control and self-managing their disease is a very recent one: we're still advised there's no need to test our BG regularly, we're still given the Eatwell Plate as an example of a healthy diet, we're still not counselled about what to actually do when we hit the magical "Remission" day.

Which is why forums like this are so important: lots of people here are in remission and have maintained their control. This forum isn't just about managing diabetes, but keeping it under control for the rest of our lives.

Congratulations to you for accomplishing the first stage of your journey!

Final thought: The "get fat again" is because people who have T2D are insulin resistant. And a sign of insulin resistance is a spare tyre many of us (not all) carry around our middles. If you have had a diagnosis of T2D and get that tyre back, it's a clear danger sign. That's all he meant.

The recent comment I saw on Twitter was the following:

 

[SockFiddler]

Perfect!

I'm still approaching that moment, so wasn't exactly certain of the specifics. Thank you for that!

 

[britishpub]

There’s an interesting video from the Economist on Twitter I came across about a Doctor performing gastric bypass surgery claiming that it “cures” T2D because it bypasses a section of the upper intestine that somehow causes T2D. If I could work out how to link to it I’ll post it.

 

[britishpub]

https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1014267876889554944?s=12

 

[lucylocket61]

I would rather have type 2, and control it by diet and drugs, than have a gastric bypass.

 

[briped]

I would rather have type 2, and control it by diet and drugs, than have a gastric bypass.

Me too, but for some people it's the only solution.

 

[bulkbiker]

https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/1014267876889554944?s=12

I wonder if he makes all his patients get into ketosis before their ops?

 

[lucylocket61]

Me too, but for some people it's the only solution.

it may be the only solution for some for weight loss, but for type 2 control only? if I was slim? thats what i meant. I forget to use all my words sometimes when posting lol

 

[KK123]

It's strange that a type 2 who constantly gets an hba1 of under 6.5 over two months can be classed as 'in remission', why then isn't it the same for type 1s?, if their readings also drop to under 6.5 (most likely will for those on insulin) then are they in remission? I'm guessing not because it is the insulin dropping them, but then again is it not the low carb diet that is dropping type 2's? My point being, drop the insulin and the low carbs and back it all comes.

 

[SockFiddler]

Actually, a diabetic friend of mine (in Leeds, where the CCG seems to have an abundant amount of cash. I'm seriously thinking of relocating) just had a gastric bypass. She had to "follow a special diet" for three weeks before hand to "shrink the liver", but when I looked over the sheet she'd been given, it was very clearly a very-low-carb diet.

She was plunged (as we know and see all too often) into an immediate state of keto flu, couldn't keep warm, couldn't stay awake. But even before the operation, her Hba1c was the lowest it had ever been in 15 years, her liver had shrunk "to normal size" and she'd lost 3 clothes sizes.

This was just run-of-the-mill NHS treatment and, I have to admit, I was impressed. It was nice to be able to explain to her what was happening in her body, why the diet was working and how to ease the keto flu symptoms.

Now, 3 months along, she's lost 6 sizes, her energy is back, her arthritic pain has significantly lessened, she's still off the carbs (though less rigidly so), and her consultant predicts she may never have symptoms of diabetes again.

Honestly, given the option and having seen what it's done for her, I'd leap at the chance for surgery.

 

[bulkbiker]

It's strange that a type 2 who constantly gets an hba1 of under 6.5 over two months can be classed as 'in remission', why then isn't it the same for type 1s?, if their readings also drop to under 6.5 (most likely will for those on insulin) then are they in remission? I'm guessing not because it is the insulin dropping them, but then again is it not the low carb diet that is dropping type 2's? My point being, drop the insulin and the low carbs and back it all comes.

Not quite the same surely.
If you as a Type1 were to drop the insulin you would be very ill... possibly dead.
If I as a Type 2 went back to my old ways of eating i'd simply be stupid.

 

[briped]

it may be the only solution for some for weight loss, but for type 2 control only? if I was slim? thats what i meant. I forget to use all my words sometimes when posting lol

I admit to not clicking on the link, but do they do bariatric surgery on slim t2s too? I meant for morbidly obese, T2 or not, but I think we agree

 

[SockFiddler]

The criteria in the little graphic also said without meds during entire period covered by both HbA1c's. I'm no expert, but I'm fairly sure that's impossible for a T1?