Stop Keto Now - The Mice Have Spoken!

[bigsi1984]

Hello,

Just come across this article.

https://news.sky.com/story/keto-diets-could-increase-diabetes-risk-11465771

As per usual with this kind of thing it all seems a bit fishy and is based on mice. It does say that diabetics have been shown to benefit from Keto but in doing so contradicts itself.

Basically, Keto could make you Type 2. But if you get Type 2 Keto could help.

Ridiculous! No wonder some people are so disillusioned.

 

[Boo1979]

Havent read the link so no comments on that or keto / low carb in general which I do see as useful for my diabetes- my comments are purely on the interpretation of seemingly contradictory medical / scientific information
The effects of any medical intervention ( be it drugs or diet ) can vary massively depending on the individuals preexisting health condition. So its perfectly possible to have diametrically opposed reesponses to the same intervention
For example in the case of amphetamines ( speed) or their chemically similar legal stimulant drugs ( such as ritalin / methylphenedate) the effect on a ‘normal” person is to make them temprarily hyperactive but on a hyperactive person it slows them down.

 

[shelley262]

Thanks for posting this I’ve been irritated all morning by headline on classic fm news that seems to just headline on keto diets making you diabetic and my family members believing it as it’s on the news! Good to see an article which shows what this general headline is based on. As ever it’s based on mice and is not about us human diabetics using keto to treat their condition. Did search bbc news site but couldn’t find about the study on there. No doubt will lead to more general low carb way of eating bashing/generalisations!
What about using us as evidence!

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Fascinating. I'm always interested in those generalisations like "Many people are on carb restricted diets which limits our plant and fibre intakes, with bad effects on our gut health." In itself a contradiction because what am I left with after removing the carbs? Quite a lot of plant material which still contains carbs just not so much and with lower GI. If it is affecting my gut health, which I actually had checked earlier this year, then it was a positive effect, not bad.

 

[bulkbiker]

Any news item that doesn't have a link to the scientific report it is allegedly quoting from is suspect in my humble opinion. Also without being in a position to examine exactly what "ketogenic diet" the mice were being fed there is no point in drawing any conclusions. Plus of course the fact the study was on mice means it is entirely inapplicable to a human situation. More bunkum and drivel probably backed by a major food manufacturer of highly processed c**p

 

[Oldvatr]

Hello,

Just come across this article.

https://news.sky.com/story/keto-diets-could-increase-diabetes-risk-11465771

As per usual with this kind of thing it all seems a bit fishy and is based on mice. It does say that diabetics have been shown to benefit from Keto but in doing so contradicts itself.

Basically, Keto could make you Type 2. But if you get Type 2 Keto could help.

Ridiculous! No wonder some people are so disillusioned.

"Many people are on carb restricted diets which limits our plant and fibre intakes, with bad effects on our gut health."

Nope! I have acually increased my veg intake. I am not full keto though, and I use fasting to do that. It works for me without being restrictive.

The mice studies I have seen on this use a high protein foodsource so are emulating the early Phase #1 Atkins diet that proved to be harmful in the long term. Atkins diet has been signifcantly revamped since to bring it in line with LCHF regime which seems to be a safer route. I personally know a work colleague who suffered health issues directly from his Atkins#1 diet and this set me anti keto, but I have researched LCHF and am satisfied it is ok for me to use to control my diabetes.

 

[sally and james]

Just loved the title, "the mice have spoken!", so had to drop in.

I doubt if anyone here was on a keto diet when they became diabetic and, if once they were diabetic, they went on a keto diet, nobody could tell anymore if they were diabetic or not. Tell that to the mice.
Sally

 

[Diakat]

Here is the press release:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-08/tps-kdm080718.php

 

[tim2000s]

The basis of what is being discussed is already known in keto circles, namely that when you eat keto, you see physiological insulin resistance as a result of the body redirecting glucose for brain use. A reasonable number of people on the forum have identified that their average resting glucose level has increased a bit as a result of being keto, and there are a number of articles/papers postulating that when you flip to a lipid metabolism, the body restricts its ability to react to insulin in order to protect limited glucose supplies.

As @Diakat 's press release says, they then performed "standard metabolic tests" on them, one of which is very likely a glucose tolerance test, and everyone who has tried keto knows that if you flip straight from keto to a GTT, it shows bad things due to the above paragraph.

So I'd take this as a "Nothing to see here, move along" rather than anything else...

 

[bulkbiker]

Apparently this is what they were fed.. doesn't look much like my food...

http://www.bio-serv.com/pdf/F3666.pdf

 

[bulkbiker]

One of the things I took from the press release was this... an interesting and quite unusual point of view

"Christian Wolfrum, one of the corresponding authors on the paper said 'Diabetes is one of the biggest health issues we face. Although ketogenic diets are known to be healthy.."

 

[Krystyna23040]

Apparently this is what they were fed.. doesn't look much like my food...

http://www.bio-serv.com/pdf/F3666.pdf

oh Yuk - those poor mice being fed that rubbish. Can we get then for cruelty to mice?

 

[tim2000s]

Apparently this is what they were fed.. doesn't look much like my food...

http://www.bio-serv.com/pdf/F3666.pdf

And why are they feeding mice on a keto diet something containing dextrose?

 

[NewTD2]

Ketogenic diet isn’t for everyone and it’s a fact!

 

[Resurgam]

And yet more guff about Atkins.
Several times I have been told how unhealthy it is only to find that the diet being denigrated is something touted as 'Atkins' when it is nothing like.

 

[rhubarb73]

The article contradicts itself massively- the same diet which increases diabetes risk cannot simultaneously been an effective treatment for it. The article acknowledges that it is an effective treatment thereby undermining its own central argument.

 

[bigsi1984]

I think the real issue here is the media making blanket statements that the general population will just assume to be true because, you know, Science!

It has been shown here in a very short amount of time that the people in the know can quickly debate this article and pick holes in it if there are any, or indeed interpret it through a more realistic lens. It's Joe Bloggs T2 and anyone considering trying something new to change their life that may be put off by what is the equivalent of standing on a soap box shouting 'The floods are coming' because its raining.

 

[Mbaker]

So this is how I interpret the article. World continues to eat as it currently does with 9-11%:incident rates of diabetes and rising. Mice trial supposedly eating Keto (Lard, Butter, Corn Oil, Casein, Cellulose, Mineral Mix, Vitamin Mix, Dextrose constituants, I can spot 2 things I am not happy with at least) produces bad rssults, so Keto is not great for humans, however Keto is healthy?

Why bother with mice, why not go directly to humans with say a Keto diet from maybe Steve Phinney.....I forgot know need to do this there have already been stacks of LCHF / Keto trials with real food. For newbies review the latest Virta results, the awards this site has achieved, Diet Doctor success stories and all of the social media sites have if not tens of thousands of anecdotes (I careless if this is not the scientific method, as organisations such as the PHC have enough references for these). The push from certain groups at the moment is that Keto has short term benefits then watch the health problems, can someone suggest how long before the turn; as persons such as professor Noakes, Dr Eric Wiseman, Dr Sarah Halberg for example have been using Keto on patients for what is running into decades now, and some non modern cultures for hundreds of years. The only issue I have seen long term is LDL up (and for me this is a red herring).

Keto diets are varied so would the author for example say that a typical "SAD" diet of Bolognese and pasta, if changed to Bolognese and cauliflour rice would lead to diabetes, they will have to go some to prove this sort of thing.

These outlets would be better served publicising the recent "real" results on the effect of blood sugar of a certain corn based breakfast cereal on "real" humans where 80% of the participants obtained high blood sugars from a house hold product of many years.

 

[bulkbiker]

And why are they feeding mice on a keto diet something containing dextrose?

Exactly.. not exactly the keto I know and love..!

 

[bulkbiker]

Ketogenic diet isn’t for everyone and it’s a fact!

What kind of a "fact"?
You mean it's your opinion?