Carbs And Inflammation

[lucylocket61]

As i have said repeatedly in my posts about this, its not only my blood tests. It observation, pain levels, skin condition, breathing etc etc etc.

I am not stupid. I know how to test reactions to food etc, people with intolerance do it all the time through elimination diets.

The one constant in the past 6 years has been my health v my carb intake. I can provoke a reaction by ingesting more carbs. Just as someone who is lactose intolerant can produce a reaction.

I am not going to defend my, and my gp's conclusions anymore. There is a difference from the results of regular blood tests and observations versus blood test while ill or injured.

 

[Oldvatr]

I wasn't speaking to skin but to inflammation within. By the way, I'm chasing 60 and my skin has darkened where exposed, the rest of me is as it has always been, a lovely shade of British Dove grey.

Sorry got posts mixed up. Thats the problem with doing research concurrent with an open forum thread both using the same browser at the same time. And having constant interruption from my wife needin me to fetch something for her. I had 15 tabs open just now with different things going on. I have had over 100 emails to answer too today.

 

[Brunneria]

Aches and pains particularly in joints tend to increase with weight and can be mechanical in origin rather than the result of diet per se. A low carb diet can result in considerable weight loss so at least some reports of reduced "inflammation" could be attributed to that, rather than reducing the carbs themselves.

Not in my case, since I have not lost significant amounts of weight on low carb.

 

[Guzzler]

How? IR is not easy to measure in vivo. Normally it is done in a lab by insullin clamp method, or by an OGTT and measuring C-Peptide output in the lab. These methods are time consuming and expensive. I have been a T2D for over 15 years, and I have never had any of these tests. I have no idea if I have IR or not.

I think it will be necessary for all people to be screened regularly by blood test to get meaningful data, and that is unlikely to happen. I only have those tests having been diagnosed diabetic in a supermarket car park by a travelling roadshow, and even then I had to volunteer for it. I only did so because my mother was T1D, so I knew I had a risk. I was not encouraged or forced into it, and it was a mere whim at the time. Thank you DUK. You extended my life.

Exactly my point. They do not measure it because it is not easy and is time consuming. That is why I used the term 'guess'.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Sorry got posts mixed up. Thats the problem with doing research concurrent with an open forum thread both using the same browser at the same time. And having constant interruption from my wife needin me to fetch something for her. I had 15 tabs open just now with different things going on. I have had over 100 emails to answer too today.

Excuses excuses please get a grip.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Not in my case, since I have not lost significant amounts of weight on low carb.

If I am correct from reading your profile, you have a problem with gluten. So you could be a different example of the difficulty of linking carbs to inflammation. Cutting down on carbs could have resulted in reduced gluten, from which someone might conclude that it was the carbs rather than the gluten that was the problem.

 

[Oldvatr]

As i have said repeatedly in my posts about this, its not only my blood tests. It observation, pain levels, skin condition, breathing etc etc etc.

I am not stupid. I know how to test reactions to food etc, people with intolerance do it all the time through elimination diets.

The one constant in the past 6 years has been my health v my carb intake. I can provoke a reaction by ingesting more carbs. Just as someone who is lactose intolerant can produce a reaction.

I am not going to defend my, and my gp's conclusions anymore. There is a difference from the results of regular blood tests and observations versus blood test while ill or injured.

I understand what you are saying here, and you raise an important point. Someone who is lactose intolerant says so, someone who is gluten intolerant says so. someone who is allergic to peanuts says so, So I have no problem with you declaring yourself to be carb intolerant and that you and carbs don't mix, and describing what effect it has for you.

But, there is a difference to the wording I used above to saying all carbs are bad, all carbs cause inflammation, all carbs are evil. Because clearly for most people they are not. They may be poorly advised to eat carbs, but that is not the same as saying

CARBS CAUSE INFLAMMATION.

this blanket condemnation of carbs is not supported by research as far as I can see, so the use of the term inflammation is I believe incorrect here. In medical terms it means the body has activated its immune system and is fighting an infection, and I suspect that there is some underlying condition that is causing the pain you experience, and it may be that it needs carbs or a biproduct of carbs to trigger it in the same way that they now discover that many cancers thrive on sugar, and can be shrunk by witholding sugar. All cancers need blood, so is blood the bad guy? Is folate or iron to blame for creating blood that feeds a cancer? No!

So for you reducing carbs works on more than one level. bgl and pain both lower, so that is the way forward for you. In my case it reduces bgl and also my blood pressure. I also reduced my meds

For both of us carb reduction makes perfect sense. As someone posted on the other thread I have potentially gained 6 years, not lost 4 years. The glass is no longer half full.

 

[Oldvatr]

Excuses excuses please get a grip.

I used to have a grip. It was a canvas bag with big handles on it, primative form of hand luggage. Superceded by athletics bag or similar snazzy expensive zipped tube. Excuses aside, did you enjoy the show Mr President?

 

[Brunneria]

If I am correct from reading your profile, you have a problem with gluten. So you could be a different example of the difficulty of linking carbs to inflammation. Cutting down on carbs could have resulted in reduced gluten, from which someone might conclude that it was the carbs rather than the gluten that was the problem.

Well, as I stated in an earlier post, I cannot say whether the starchy content of the food, or the wheat/gluten/grain content of the food is what causes the inflammation - but that is irrelevant. Eating the food causes me to experience inflammation. I am comfortable saying that carbs cause me inflammation.

People can split hairs to the nth degree to try and justify their perspective, but I am perfectly happy with MY perspective, which is that eating low carb relieves that inflammation and reduces my daily pain levels while increasing my quality of life.

Therefore (as said above) carbs cause me inflammation.

And since this is the 4th post in which I have said exactly the same thing, I have decided that I am bored with repeating myself. In future, if people chose to query what I have written, I will simply refer them to the #post above, where I have already given all the appropriate information.

 

[lucylocket61]

there is a difference to the wording I used above to saying all carbs are bad, all carbs cause inflammation, all carbs are evil.

at no point, in any of my posts have i indicated that i believe or support what i have quoted from your post. All my posting has been about me, personally, and why I know I am a person who reacts to carbs with inflammation.

my inflammation markers raise, i am in a state of inflammation, possible as an auto immune reaction. The trigger is carbs. Me, moi, personally.

 

[ickihun]

at no point, in any of my posts have i indicated that i believe or support what i have quoted from your post. All my posting has been about me, personally, and why I know I am a person who reacts to carbs with inflammation.

my inflammation markers raise, i am in a state of inflammation, possible as an auto immune reaction. The trigger is carbs. Me, moi, personally.

Funny enough I had some rice a few evenings ago as I was awaiting a shop and the next morning I was like mitchelin man. I couldn't bend my elbows or knees. Puffy eyes and once again swollen stomach. Of course I weighed heavier too.
I think thou it has reset my weight loss, somehow. I'm losing again.
Mind you no cheese and nuts again, for me.

 

[millenium]

Equation applies to metabollically challenged people such as us diabetics. But the study we started with was aimed at the general populace who in general will regulate their BGL when presented with carbs, I assume you are referring to the post that includes HbA1c as a marker of inflammation, which I feel is an assumption and not a proven fact. An elevated HbA1c is indication of a problem and stress, but that is not inflammation which means our immune system is responding to an infectious source and is producing antibodies and white blood cells. Not sure HbA1c falls in that category.

I agreed that study is not applicable to diabetics. I wont take it seriously after reading about who sponsored the study. Why would non diabetic wants to go low carb? For slimming? If that is so, usually there could be other drastic characteristic in their diet or lifestyle like maybe eating lots of animal fat etc. Those could contribute to their shorter lifespan.

On the second point. I came across a study that shows that vitamin c supplementation reduces hba1c for those blood glucose challenged with everything else equal. I think i have also seen online before the pathogenesis mechanism of how red blood cells became glycosylated, oxidation and production of free radicals are one of the steps. That are what convinced me.

As for other causes of inflammation i could think of, 1) autoimmune malfunctioning, 2) allergic reaction.

 

[Indy51]

Just saw this brilliant graphic by Dr Ted Naiman on Twitter:

Really relate to the hyperphagia phase. Despite never being more than 30lbs overweight, just prior to my Type 2 diagnosis, I was scarfing down ice cream by the litre. It was the one and only time in my life where I ever felt out of control about food. Even to the extent of a massive hyper, followed by a food coma, then waking up shivering and clammy (assuming this was a hypo, though I've never felt anything like either before or since).

I never want to feel like that again ever!

 

[Guzzler]

I agreed that study is not applicable to diabetics. I wont take it seriously after reading about who sponsored the study. Why would non diabetic wants to go low carb? For slimming? If that is so, usually there could be other drastic characteristic in their diet or lifestyle like maybe eating lots of animal fat etc. Those could contribute to their shorter lifespan.

On the second point. I came across a study that shows that vitamin c supplementation reduces hba1c for those blood glucose challenged with everything else equal. I think i have also seen online before the pathogenesis mechanism of how red blood cells became glycosylated, oxidation and production of free radicals are one of the steps. That are what convinced me.

As for other causes of inflammation i could think of, 1) autoimmune malfunctioning, 2) allergic reaction.

There are non Diabetic people who do low carb for general good health. Animal fats contribute to a shorter lifespan, how?

 

[millenium]

There are non Diabetic people who do low carb for general good health. Animal fats contribute to a shorter lifespan, how?

Yes, that will put less stress on their pancreas. Less insulin secretion has some benefits on arteries health.

If one takes lots of fried meat or fatty meat. Huge amount to make up their meals. If the excessive calories in the fat cause increase in waistline and bmi, they are more likely to die prematurely.

 

[Oldvatr]

Just saw this brilliant graphic by Dr Ted Naiman on Twitter:

Really relate to the hyperphagia phase. Despite never being more than 30lbs overweight, just prior to my Type 2 diagnosis, I was scarfing down ice cream by the litre. It was the one and only time in my life where I ever felt out of control about food. Even to the extent of a massive hyper, followed by a food coma, then waking up shivering and clammy (assuming this was a hypo, though I've never felt anything like either before or since).

I never want to feel like that again ever!

Not sure I am totally happy with his starting point (5) which reminds me of the catch all list of side effects that drug manufacturers put on their patient information leaflets, and which are there to protect them from being sued for negligence. The problem I have is that while there may be suspicion of an association with high insulin levels, there is so far no smoking gun that makes a definite link to insulin as a cause. I would have been happier if he was less scaremongering in this section.

The rest of the graphic makes sense,

 

[Oldvatr]

Yes, that will put less stress on their pancreas. Less insulin secretion has some benefits on arteries health.

If one takes lots of fried meat or fatty meat. Huge amount to make up their meals. If the excessive calories in the fat cause increase in waistline and bmi, they are more likely to die prematurely.

I think if you look at much of the recent research being conducted into obesity you will see that the paradigm of fat in=>fat stored is no longer considered valid, and also that omega 6 fats are more obesogenic and inflammatory than omega 3. Animal fat tends to be a blend of both, but crisco type oils and Canola are pure omega 6, so are actually more harmful than animal fats.

There are many discusssions on this in other threads on the forum, and links can be found to the relevant scientific study reports so I am not going to fill this thread up with them. The Low Fat modern diet is actually now considered to be more harmful than many of the diets being supported on this forum.

 

[Guzzler]

Yes, that will put less stress on their pancreas. Less insulin secretion has some benefits on arteries health.

If one takes lots of fried meat or fatty meat. Huge amount to make up their meals. If the excessive calories in the fat cause increase in waistline and bmi, they are more likely to die prematurely.

'Calories'? 'BMI'? If you choose to measure your health using these calculators then why not simply take all of your advice from NICE? Healthy fats, which include animal fats, are readily metabolised so efficiently by the human body that I was struck recently by a boffin calling the mechanism 'delicious'. He is right.

Unhealthy fats (the man made PUFAs) on the other hand are a different kettle of fish.

 

[Sani Thomas]

@Oldvatr

Some carb containing foods are most definitely inflammatory for me.
Grains, esp gluten containing ones cause marked inflammatory reactions.
Starchy root veg much less so, but they cause water retention and gas, so they don’t come out far ahead!

However, i do not know, and lack the laboratory to test, whether it is the carb in the grain, or the grain itself causing the inflammation - not that it matters. The carb food goes in, and the imflammation happens.

So yes, eating carbs causes definite inflammatory reactions in me - guts, joints and tendons are all affected.

I am of course delighted when other people don’t experience this, but that isn’t going to stop my body from reacting in this manner, so yes, carbs do cause inflammation for some of us.

Sorry to but in, but this doesn't sound like inflammatory reaction. It sounds like immune reaction which includes allergy.
A lot of health issues are due to inadequate reactions of the immune system. That includes even T1 diabetes.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

 

[Sani Thomas]

Surely if we can agree that carbs are insulogenic and hyperinsulinaemia is inflammatory then there could well be a connection between carbs and inflammation?

Before agreeing that insulinemia is inflammatory, it is important to clarify what is inflammation. I do not agree with the view expressed above. Most of the examples given appear to be immunological. In other words, the immune system is involved against a specific agent. Similar to allergic reactions.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app