Shakes And Soup Diet Could Become Radical Treatment For...

[Julie27318]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/p...adical-treatment-Type-2-diabetes--report.html

 

[Rokaab]

There's another thread about this here: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/i-tried-to-ignore-headlines-but.156268/

 

[Julie27318]

There's another thread about this here: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/i-tried-to-ignore-headlines-but.156268/

Always somebody as to be negative!!!well it can't hurt try and i'm more than willing give it a shot!!!

 

[bulkbiker]

Always somebody as to be negative!!!well it can't hurt try and i'm more than willing give it a shot!!!

It is the Newcastle Diet which is discussed a lot in the Low Calorie Diet section of the forum.

 

[derry60]

I will not be trying this..no way. Although I am not type 2 What will happen when peeps go back to normal eating? Even low carb way of normal eating. I would be worried that it would mess my system up. This is not a normal way of eating so if I were type 2 I would give it a miss

 

[kokhongw]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/p...adical-treatment-Type-2-diabetes--report.html

800 calories/day is essentially a ketogenic diet...except they don't want to call it that...

You will achieve ketosis.

 

[bulkbiker]

800 calories/day is essentially a ketogenic diet...except they don't want to call it that...

You will achieve ketosis.

Although to be fair starvation may not be the best way to get there?

 

[kokhongw]

Although to be fair starvation may not be the best way to get there?

I think it depends on the subjects. Personally I think a couple of weeks of LCHF followed by extended water fast would be most effective...but there's no RCT on it

Dr Jason Fung did have a recent patient that fasted for a couple of months at least. Have to look up his twitter post...

 

[bulkbiker]

I think it depends on the subjects. Personally I think a couple of weeks of LCHF followed by extended water fast would be most effective...but there's no RCT on it

Dr Jason Fung did have a recent patient that fasted for a couple of months at least. Have to look up his twitter post...

Ah but fasting and starvation are subtly different .....but you know that .... right?

 

[kokhongw]

Ah but fasting and starvation are subtly different .....but you know that .... right?

Ya. When they keep triggering insulin with those shakes...its an agony...pure water fast put us in a state of zen...

 

[Guzzler]

Well, if you think lactose free milk is expensive wait until you see the price of the shakes. Just saying.

 

[Oldvatr]

It is the Newcastle Diet which is discussed a lot in the Low Calorie Diet section of the forum.

Disagree. The calorie intake is much higher than the Newcastle diet. As said it it is more like the old Cambridge Diet, which Prof Taylor adapted using the same shakes to emulate bariatric surgery. But ND may be considered by NICE as being too restrictive or severe for most diabetics they deal with so it may be a compromise from them. Remains to be seen if the calorie intake they end up with will actually be effective enough to claim remission or reversal. I suspect that with higher calorie intake it becomes less important to have a time limit such as the 8 weeks of ND,

 

[bulkbiker]

Disagree. The calorie intake is much higher than the Newcastle diet. As said it it is more like the old Cambridge Diet, which Prof Taylor adapted using the same shakes to emulate bariatric surgery. But ND may be considered by NICE as being too restrictive or severe for most diabetics they deal with so it may be a compromise from them. Remains to be seen if the calorie intake they end up with will actually be effective enough to claim remission or reversal. I suspect that with higher calorie intake it becomes less important to have a time limit such as the 8 weeks of ND,

At between 810 and 850 calories daily
The report is based on the DiRECT study even down to the 300 people with just under half achieving remission..no?

 

[Oldvatr]

At between 810 and 850 calories daily
The report is based on the DiRECT study even down to the 300 people with just under half achieving remission..no?

Sorry, I had forgotten that DiRECT used more sachets and had higher calories than the original ND, Has DiRECT been published yet? I have reread the links in the OP and agree it is ND in one form or another which is a good pedigree to have. I think I was mixing it up with either the Moseley 8 week diet or the Unwin trial where a figure of around 1000 cals was used,

 

[bulkbiker]

Sorry, I had forgotten that DiRECT used more sachets and had higher calories than the original ND, Has DiRECT been published yet? I have reread the links in the OP and agree it is ND in one form or another which is a good pedigree to have. I think I was mixing it up with either the Moseley 8 week diet or the Unwin trial where a figure of around 1000 cals was used,

Has Unwin done a low calorie trial? I must have missed that one somewhere...?

 

[Oldvatr]

Has Unwin done a low calorie trial? I must have missed that one somewhere...?

No he did do a reduced starch study which is sort of low carb. but was not near the keto ranges for the participants. Many here would not regard it as a true LC diet such as LCHF, but more 'eat to meter'

I only know Dr Unwin through this forum, and only knew his username and that he was a GP interested in Low Carb. Because the trial he did successfully was not LCHF, which is where my travels were taking me at that time, I did not see him as an LCHF proponent but we had interesting discussions. But when he joined PHC then it became clear that he supported LC diets. But his trial study does not really tick that box, and so this is why I believe his calorie intake was high compared to ND, It is also why I included it in this discussion of the NHS shake rattle and Roll diet since being a GP led study in a GP practice, it established that it was viable to roll out to other practices. It was also a formal study that the NHS could hang their hats on.

https://www.practicaldiabetes.com/w...etes-experience-from-one-general-practice.pdf

 

[ickihun]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/p...adical-treatment-Type-2-diabetes--report.html

Endo via dietician has recommended 800cals meal replacements with veg, soups or cooked veg.
What I like is I'm being monitored whilst I take insulin too. Other meds may need changing as I go along too.
I cannot reduce some meds as I'm not qualified or experienced/trained.
I've been told reduce insulin if any hypos. Which I'm happy to do and have done before.
So yes. This is being recommended to some.

 

[ickihun]

800 calories/day is essentially a ketogenic diet...except they don't want to call it that...

You will achieve ketosis.

I'll let you know.
3 shakes and a veg meal (240g veg) for 8wks or til op whichever is soonest.