Carbohydrates - Food of the Devil?

[Listlad]

Great post @Guzzler

I liken it to we CAN eat carbs.
And use them all up.

But THEN as we age
( AND bearing in mind the AMOUNT of carbs we eat during the day
AND the fact how many of the processed food are stuffed with extra sugars etc .)

check out any ready meals for carbs and ingredients that would be more at home in a laboratory

We start to lose some of that ability to process them as efficiently.
And the carbs unused are left sloshing around inside of us, and then with nowhere to go, turn to viciseral fat.

THAT loss of efficiency increases, until we struggle and are awash with glucose, and then get diagnosed T2D.

So yeah, we can eat carbs, everyone can,

I just don't believe we should do it in the amounts we currently do

For far too many, it has or will cause major issues

How many of us, could have avoided type two diagnosis, if our food choices over the years had offered less carbs, less messed about stuffed with sneaky sugars,
And all of the above then labelled HEALTHY

I for one would rather I did NOT have T2D.

I always like your good sense of balance.

 

[Listlad]

Jim, I agree that the general population would be better off eating fewer carbs. When you think of how many carbs the average person eats, it must surely be in the region of 500 plus easily, especially when you factor in things like crisps/cakes/sausage rolls and so on,on top of the rest. I think the issue is that there is a massive difference between eating 500 carbs and eating 100 carbs a day. It's just that some people on this forum (and there is nothing wrong with this of course) choose to eat no carbs or as good as and sometimes view those who eat a 100 carbs in the same category as those who eat 500. It's not that people 'tell' others what they should be doing, it's more the inference and the faint disappointment displayed when someone mentions porridge.

That’s my observation too.

 

[Member496333]

I would like to add also that although carbohydrate in itself is being consumed in inappropriate quantities, sugar is the real villain. This is because of its silent 50% fructose content. In fact fructose in my view is prime suspect number one for causing insulin resistance. The biochemistry is inescapable.

 

[Listlad]

This brings to mind low carb notables like Tim Noakes and Sami Inkinen... athletes who carb loaded and found themselves facing T2D...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinternational/2017/11/01/enjoy-the-pain/#783d185056f3

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I was on the phone to Christiano Ronaldo this morning. I said to him “ Christiano, I have watched you for so many years now, from the days when you were introduced at Man U, those explosive runs, those explosive headed goals, unbelievable free kicks and amazing power, pace and stamina. To the glory years in Europe and Real Madrid, winning Champions Leagues medals and almost single handedly taking Portugal to glory in the European Championship a few years back. And at 35 years old you dragged Juventus into the last 8 of the Champions League the other night when they had struggled for so many years before.” He said “ Yes Listlad” I am a born winner. I know that.” I then said, “but Christiano, you could have done better. You know the old saying, you can’t run off a bad diet. You could have achieved so much more if only you had taken out the carbs in your diet”. He then seemed to mumble something in Portuguese which sounded like the equivalent of foxtrot oscar. And then the phone went dead. I think he was recommending me Gordon Ramsey’s restaurant in Chelsea, London.

 

[SlimLizzy]

Hi @PenguinMum I am guessing you are a mum? Would you attempt to restrict carbohydrate food levels given to your kids? (If they were not diabetic that is?)

Knowing what I do now about diabetes, I would indeed have restricted, if that is the right word my childrens carbohydrate consumption. Pizza without chips for example, curry with rice OR naan. Fewer pies with pastry and the go to convenient, ever popular oven chips, sweetcorn and peas combination might be banned altogether.
How does this sound to other people?

 

[Guzzler]

Knowing what I do now about diabetes, I would indeed have restricted, if that is the right word my childrens carbohydrate consumption. Pizza without chips for example, curry with rice OR naan. Fewer pies with pastry and the go to convenient, ever popular oven chips, sweetcorn and peas combination might be banned altogether.
How does this sound to other people?

Sounds good to me.

 

[Guzzler]

I was on the phone to Christiano Ronaldo this morning. I said to him “ Christiano, I have watched you for so many years now, from the days when you were introduced at Man U, those explosive runs, those explosive headed goals, unbelievable free kicks and amazing power, pace and stamina. To the glory years in Europe and Real Madrid, winning Champions Leagues medals and almost single handedly taking Portugal to glory in the European Championship a few years back. And at 35 years old you dragged Juventus into the last 8 of the Champions League the other night when they had struggled for so many years before.” He said “ Yes Listlad” I am a born winner. I know that.” I then said, “but Christiano, you could have done better. You know the old saying, you can’t run off a bad diet. You could have achieved so much more if only you had taken out the carbs in your diet”. He then seemed to mumble something in Portuguese which sounded like the equivalent of foxtrot oscar. And then the phone went dead.

Perhaps you'd like a conversation with some of the winners of the Iron Man and Iron Woman Competitions?
No hour and half of diving going on in those pursuits.

 

[Listlad]

I was going to try and post the mother in laws food spread for New Years Eve 2018/19 but it is too large a file. It is mainly fish, meat and rice. With some fruit and cake. The ratios are stacked in heavily in favour of the fish and meat. I will try and upload it later.

I had to reduce the resolution but you can see the amount of fish and meat is proportionally high, that was taken just a few months back.

 

[Listlad]

Have a look at what an "expert" says.. and its not so clear cut..
Your links are I'm afraid just parroting the usual nutrition advice which serves few of us well... here especially but I believe in the general population too.

Just watched this. Whilst it was an amusing video, his (Peter) accent is an us and them one, rather than one of coexistence. I also noticed the focus was on endurance athletes, but Mo Farah a well known endurance serial gold medalist at world level obviously, eats a diet containing both fat and carbs including Kellogs Frosties. Far be it for me to knock his mode of achievement.

 

[Guzzler]

Just watched this. Whilst it was an amusing video, his (Peter) accent is an us and them one, rather than one of coexistence. I also noticed the focus was on endurance athletes, but Mo Farah a well known endurance serial gold medalist at world level obviously, eats a diet containing both fat and carbs including Kellogs Frosties. Far be it for me to knock his mode of achievement.

What has Peter's accent got to do with anything? Are all experts required to have a received English accent?

Could you clarify your 'coexistence" comment, please.

As for Mo Farrah and Usain Bolt time will tell (esp wrt to Bolt) whether carb loading will lead to metabolic dysfunction.

 

[DCUKMod]

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/08/gp-type-1-diabetes-runs-low-carb/

Just sayin'

 

[Listlad]

How about Anthony Joshua, world heavyweight champion and Olympic gold medalist. He and his nutritionist know a thing or two and don’t skimp on the carbs:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/boxing/the...lled-anthony-joshua-through-fight-camp-121834

I would try telling him to ditch the carbs.

 

[bulkbiker]

How about Anthony Joshua, world heavyweight champion and Olympic gold medalist. He and his nutritionist know a thing or two and don’t skimp on the carbs:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/boxing/the...lled-anthony-joshua-through-fight-camp-121834

I would try telling him to ditch the carbs.

Ok so young, very fit people can eat a lot of rubbish and appear fine. Yes we can agree.

However when they age and their metabolisms start to fail (a la Steve Redgrave) then it can come back and bite them somewhere painful.

You seem to be constantly forgetting that in a community of T2 diabetics pushing the benefits of a high carb diet may not be the most tactful thing you could do.

 

[Member496333]

In summary, carbs suck and young people can eat them to excess until they end up with egg on their face twenty years later

In all seriousness though, anyone can quote individual cases of this that or the other elite sportsman/racing driver/astronaut who bucks the trend, but the simple fact is that, as a population, carbohydrate is being consumed in excess and we are paying the collective price with nations awash with sick people who think it’s natural for their body to begin falling apart at middle age.

 

[Listlad]

Ok so young, very fit people can eat a lot of rubbish and appear fine. Yes we can agree.

However when they age and their metabolisms start to fail (a la Steve Redgrave) then it can come back and bite them somewhere painful.

You seem to be constantly forgetting that in a community of T2 diabetics pushing the benefits of a high carb diet may not be the most tactful thing you could do.

You misunderstand me yet again.

I am not pushing the benefits of a high carb diet. Your words and not mine.

What I am doing is trying underline that for some it is not necessary to remove carbs altogether. That includes me and many other forum members, aswell of course the general public at large.

Low(er) carbs is what suits me and wish that to be recognised as such.

I repeat. LOWER carbs is what suits me.

 

[Listlad]

...., as a population, carbohydrate is being consumed in excess and we are paying the collective price with nations awash with sick people who think it’s natural for their body to begin falling apart at middle age.

At least you and I can agree on this.

It does help not to polarise every thread though.

 

[Member496333]

At least you and I can agree on this.

It does help not to polarise every thread though.

Respectfully though, if anything, this thread is causing polarising opinions to clash. All anyone really needs to do is respect that we all have different goals and expectations. There’s no need for anyone to constantly defend their corner or protest against the other, and I’ve personally never seen anyone prescribe a dietary strategy to anyone else beyond offering advice to those seeking help. I do concede though that of course it’s often a matter of perspective, and good intentions are often lost in the written word.

I for one am growing a little tired of seeing people’s views on low-carb eating being challenged, ironically under the umbrella of acceptance of others’ choices. I only share my own experiences and try to help where I may be able to. Beyond that, frankly, it’s of little concern whether or not anyone cares or agrees. If someone wants to eat Frosties for breakfast that’s their lookout, but it doesn’t mean I have to condone it

 

[Listlad]

Respectfully though, if anything, this thread is causing polarising opinions to clash. All anyone really needs to do is respect that we all have different goals and expectations. There’s no need for anyone to constantly defend their corner or protest against the other, and I’ve personally never seen anyone prescribe a dietary strategy to anyone else beyond offering advice to those seeking help. I do concede though that of course it’s often a matter of perspective, and good intentions are often lost in the written word.

I for one am growing a little tired of seeing people’s views on low-carb eating being challenged, ironically under the umbrella of acceptance of others’ choices. I only share my own experiences and try to help where I may be able to. Beyond that, frankly, it’s of little concern whether or not anyone cares or agrees. If someone wants to eat Frosties for breakfast that’s their lookout, but it doesn’t mean I have to condone it

I agree. I am not challenging Low Carb eating. I am challenging the idea that it is the only show in town.

 

[jjraak]

in the sense of fairness @Listlad

i too am slightly losing sight of your point.

i thought it was SHOULD you restrict carbs to your kids.
adults must make their own minds up,
but the example you place of superb athletes

probably doesn't apply in any sort of health way to joe public slobbing out on the sofa eating takeaways and supping beer..(yep, guilty as charged )

i wasn't diagnosed until 59..and it's as we age that the impact for T2D, really appears.


So for me that's a yes to the original question of should you restrict carbs..(but each of us is different)
restrict as @SlimLizzy suggests..yes...ban..NO.

BUT do be aware that it creeps up on us when we eat the unrestricted carbs that so many do nowadays
(as i mentioned above)
if it was the microwave causing cancer, i doubt many would accept that it IS a safe level in the kitchen, on an everyday basis
if it meant that the accumulations quadrupled the chances of your kids getting cancer (god forbid)

I think the same with carbs.

We are all on here for the reason of Diabetes..at whatever stage we are at or what type we have.

if many find that a high carb diet impacted on them, i doubt the assertion of higher carbs would go unchallenged.

If it is that the lower carbs benefitted people then i think in a auditorium full of those professing the benefits and showing PROOF, as you seem to do (well done btw)

i doubt the message of higher barbs will ever get through,
when it's that VERY principal many blame for their current state.
we all want wants best for our kids.

not sure a sugar laden carb fest IS the best way.
and lets be honest ...when we talk carbs there IS two types.

the really healthy type which all low carbers eat

..and this

ad nauseaum on EVERY high street, filed with schoolkids 'topping' up

 

[Member496333]

I agree. I am not challenging Low Carb eating. I am challenging the idea that it is the only show in town.

To be fair though it kind of is the only show in town if someone wants to reverse chronic diabetes and doesn’t want to wait for as long as it took to develop it