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Carbohydrates - Food of the Devil?

Discussion in 'Fitness, Exercise and Sport' started by Listlad, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Knikki

    Knikki Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    That cake looks. AWESOME. As does that chocolate cake from a couple of posts backpack does as well.

    Would I eat?
    Yes I would, maybe not in one sitting?

    Why?

    Because life is to short and cake is to nice
     
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  2. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    Too right. :D

    Actually her cakes look fantastic but tend to be awfully sweet.
     
  3. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Expert

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    Personally, I see cakes like that and I think 'Is it worth a toe? Is it worth the sight of one eye?' You may think that I am terrified of sweet things, not at all. I had a Devonshire Cream tea and a Devonshire clotted cream ice cream cornet in late summer '18. I thoroughly enjoyed both and ate both with not one whit of guilt or remorse but the next treat I had was a small one on my birthday much later in the year (I was saving the treats up for Christmas). I no longer have carb cravings so a treat two or three times a year is enough for me, I look forward to them because they are a true, proper treat not summat to be had every day or every week.

    You could easily put both those cakes in my kitchen and it wouldn't bother me (middle son had a tower of profiteroles sitting in the fridge the other week and while I like them I was totally disinterested). I may even have broken my relationships with Mr. Ritz and Mr. Walker!
     
  4. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    And also presumably because the insulin you use actually works. This is not so much the case with insulin resistant diabetics. Just making sure we understand the distinction between the two with respect to carbohydrate ingestion :)

    Speaking from a personal perspective the idea of eating a cake makes me feel ill, and a life’s too short attitude will make mine even shorter :D
     
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  5. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    And....also...you can’t have your cake and eat it. :D

    Anybody got a recipe for a low carb custard pie?
     
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  6. Grant_Vicat

    Grant_Vicat Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Mbaker You mentioning 60 years ago made me think about food shops at the time. I grew up between Brighton and Worthing and the biggest food shop was Sainsbury's. It would not be classed as a supermarket nowadays. Its modern equivalent would have seemed like a hypermarket. I remember Kit-Kat dispensers where you put sixpence in (2.5 pence in todays terms) and you would get 1 bar. There were also Bazooka bubble gum and Wrigley's chewing gum. You could find small waxed cartons of milk (half pint). I can't remember cans of fizzy drinks coming out of an external dispenser back then. The checkout was a primitive affair with a typewriter style till, and would not be barricaded with temptations. Vesta packs of chicken supreme or something similar with rice were around, but there was not yet anything like Pot Noodles or today's ready meals. This is surely because they didn't have developed plastics, and microwaves were still a dream. It would be wrong to think that obese children were not around then. I personally knew several 'fatsos' as they were termed and of course there were plenty of adults in a similar position. Maybe the sudden realisation that plastic is harming the planet might go a little way towards helping better dietary choices. If the government is truly concerned about the diabetes time-bomb, they could be looking also at absurd portions being served at takeaways and the carb content of "snacks" in e.g. coffee shops. This coud go on...
     
  7. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    There have been some posts on sporting performance with carbs I would like to comment on. Many athletes are getting pre-diabetic numbers, I have read about runners and body builders. It would not be expected that those exercising for up to 5 hours a day could get to this state; even Ivor Cummins sponsor developed Type 2 an he was a fit man, running alot.

    Many top athletes are now training low and performing high (carbs on the day) such as Liverpool F.C and another undisclosed top six premier club. I was at a networking meeting today and an ex-rugby pro, turned business angel said Saracens do low carb; I know the NZ All Blacks do, and ashes winning Australian cricket teams. I could produce lots of examples as this is an area I follow. Even Chris Froome went low carb to lose weight (as if he had any) to improve his power to weight ratio, which he did. Low carb / keto athlete performance is much better on muscle recovery. But in general low carb / keto athletic performance has been well documented in the faster study by Volek and Phinney, lean gains, keto gains and many more resources. My personal experience is that I can easily do 3 miles, followed by a heavy weights 45 minute 700 calorie workout fasted until 15.00 - easily; carb fuelled athletes do not train like this.
    Interesting the off spring of the generations from 60 years ago now have a shorter life expectancy themselves, their children are more obese and suffer more behavioural and chronic diseases earlier - the prevalence of autoimmune diseases is also up.around.

    The convenience experience has helped fuel plastics, and we now know that drinking water from plastic bottles is not great.
     
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  8. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    I remember those times too. And I remember looking at what was going on across the pond. And then I visited across the pond and saw it was true. What happens here is often what has already happened over in the US of A.
     
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  9. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    Don’t get me on plastics and looking after the planet etc, I could go on for days and weeks about it.
     
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  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    So if only 12 % of US adults are metabolically healthy (which I believe is the most recent statistic) then maybe carbs , seed oils, HFCS really are the food of the devil?
     
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  11. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we need two events at the Olympics? The carb fuelled 100m and the fat fuelled. :D
     
  12. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    I see the point you are making but you are taking things to the polarised extreme. I sometimes wonder if there is a hidden agenda lurking around. What’s wrong with optimising instead of minimising.?
     
  13. Grant_Vicat

    Grant_Vicat Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Sadly!
     
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  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Simply put optimising is only possible after minimising.. you have no idea what your "ideal" carb intake will be so the easiest way to find out is to cut to the barest minimum (which in dietary essentials terms is none but 20g daily is a good start point) and then build up to see by whatever means you use to measure shows you that you have got to your ideal level. By slowly cutting down you'll never get better just make yourself sicker by the day...
    Seems to be the sensible approach to me?
    Its like food allergy testing (in fact it is food allergy testing).. if you eat 100g of peanuts and are allergic you will get very ill.. if you eat none then you won't.. the next day try one and see how that goes. Hardly rocket science.
     
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  15. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    Liverpool FC
    “Since then the changes on the training pitch have been replicated in the club’s canteen. Players have been enrolled on food education courses and provided with tailor-made nutrition programmes. The canteen itself has been revamped with different food ‘stations’ – for hydration, bread, salad and fresh pasta. Tomato sauce is off the menu because of its sugar content and the club also have ‘no egg days’ ahead of games.”

    Liverpool FC
    “She has not overseen vast structural changes at its Melwood training complex, or at the club’s stadium at Anfield. The training ground cafeteria is not markedly different: a station for fresh fruit juices, a spot for granola and nuts, her famous salad bar.”

    These guys seem to be optimising and not (maximising or minimising).
     
    #135 Listlad, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:44 AM
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 11:24 AM
  16. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I know that Peter Brukner was / is involved as it is him who I got the info from, he did some of the Australian cricket team:

     
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  17. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    I bet they can tell us a thing or two about roughing up the match ball. :D.
     
  18. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  19. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    No need both types are already competing at the same games. Stephen Phinney has stated many times that he cannot disclose some names he trains, I cannot site another trainer off the top of my head who trains Olympic level athletes, I do recall she was on a panel of around 6 in this space answering end of session questions.

    I can talk from personal experience as a once elite level Karate man (former British champ). Keto adapted training for strength and endurance is superior in my view. For short explosive bursts such as 60, 100 and 200 metres, carb based performance I feel shades it, due to the immediacy of the glucose (if ultimate tenth of a second performance is required)...having said that Dr Shawn Baker recently won a world event his age group for a glycolytic rowing event, and in contrast Zach Bitter gained 2 world records, 1 was for running 100 miles in the quickest time. For those who don't know Shaw does full carnivore, Zach uses carnivore / high fatstrategically for optimum recovery.

    For some reason beyond me, many back to back tests outside of Volek and Phinney compare persons who are carb burners with persons who have transitioned to the diet for the trial, rather than allowing several months for Keto adaption.
     
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  20. Listlad

    Listlad Other · Well-Known Member

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    That’s handy. My little one takes her first grading on Monday at 6yo. Taekwando though.
     
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