And so it begins: Eat less meat or we’ll make you.

[Geordie_P]

I can not work this out. Its was written in 2010, he has obviously decided for what ever reason to change his oppinion. Most of the farming community seem to think he is just out to make money, being moderate doesn't give you much air time or sell books.

Oh, great catch- I didn't see that it was written so long ago- it was just recommended when I was reading the guardian a day or two ago. Well, I withdraw my new-found, short-lived respect for Monbiot- he's a fool or an 'agent provocateur'. However, it's still a good article!

 

[Oldvatr]

There was a good piece on the environmental side by George Monbiot (of all people). I've never agreed with him much, but he boldly faced up to a lot of the issues with the vegan=automatically greener argument. Definitely worth a look.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation

WOW! I am impressed. George Monbiot is held up to be the modern day Pied Piper lesding the sheep off to their doom, If this truly was written by him, then it is a major volte face and represents the way we used to think before the days of Extinction Rebellion et al.
I note that it was written in 2010, which is unfotunately a time when the Guardian and other media were showing a less biassed face to us. However a lot of money has passed under their bridges since, and we are not so enlightened today, I am minded that last December the BBC broadcast George's latest documentary and it was a biopic of his previous crusade against livestock farming and ruminants in particlular. It seems his flash of reality shown in this link was short lived.

 

[WackyJacky64]

what rules did my post break ? a member asked me for proof about greta and i posted a video . I've seen many youtube video's posted on this forum I don't know what was wrong with the one i posted .

 

[WackyJacky64]

What was that we were saying about choice? Looks like we’re edging one step closer to the removal of it.

People should cut the amount of beef, lamb and dairy produce they eat by a fifth to combat climate change, a report says. It says public bodies should lead the way by offering plant-based options with all meals. But it says if people don’t cut consumption willingly, taxes on meat and dairy might be needed. The report comes from the government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC).

.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51210622

 

[Oldvatr]

What you quote is the opinion of a small gtoup of unrepresentative comittee members, It does not represent a truth, and there is no debate being allowed. So yes, my choice is about to be removed.

A tax on sales such as VAT reduces consumption slightly, but not to the extent being demanded i,e, 8o% so there will be taxes directly on the industry such as the Red Meat tax being put in place this month, and a Carbon Tax, and an animal feed tax on the feedstocks for ruminants. There is legislation proposed that all farmers must register births as well as deaths, for the red Meat tax so that they can tax births as well to reduce the male calf trade and the pet meat trade.

So hit the farmer where it huts and they will give up. If enough give up then the effect will be extinction of whole breeds of animals. since mankind will turn to other meat sources which will also have to be controlled too. So cattle and sheep will become like the mammoth and the dodo and the giant tortoise. Then the support industry will go just like it did when tractors replaced horses and killed off the blacksmith, the farriers and tack shops, the animal feed mills, and then the petfood makers. The effects on society will be huge, and we do not discuss it.

 

[Mike d]

There is an extraordinary level of virtue signalling going on and NOT on this thread. Australia is also beset with the disease

 

[Honeyend]

What you quote is the opinion of a small gtoup of unrepresentative comittee members, It does not represent a truth, and there is no debate being allowed. So yes, my choice is about to be removed.

A tax on sales such as VAT reduces consumption slightly, but not to the extent being demanded i,e, 8o% so there will be taxes directly on the industry such as the Red Meat tax being put in place this month, and a Carbon Tax, and an animal feed tax on the feedstocks for ruminants. There is legislation proposed that all farmers must register births as well as deaths, for the red Meat tax so that they can tax births as well to reduce the male calf trade and the pet meat trade.

So hit the farmer where it huts and they will give up. If enough give up then the effect will be extinction of whole breeds of animals. since mankind will turn to other meat sources which will also have to be controlled too. So cattle and sheep will become like the mammoth and the dodo and the giant tortoise. Then the support industry will go just like it did when tractors replaced horses and killed off the blacksmith, the farriers and tack shops, the animal feed mills, and then the petfood makers. The effects on society will be huge, and we do not discuss it.

Can I just point out that animal births already have to be registered at birth, for pigs, sheep, goats and cattle, I think I have missed camelids, every animal traced when ever it moves, even if its to the local agriculural show.They are ear tagged with unique numbers. Someone I know got fined £5000, because his numbers didn't tally. The only ones that are exempt are feral herds that are confined to one area. This was all put in place for animal disease control, TB, swine flu and the rest.
https://secure.services.defra.gov.uk/wps/portal/ctso
If you have over 50 hens you have to register the flock.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...d-on-scottish-farm/ar-BBZPUkt?ocid=spartandhp
If you kill a pig at home, every bit has to be disposed of and accounted for or the EHO and DEFRA will be after you.

I think politcians are very sensitive to the publics views, remember the poll tax. If the price of meat goes up by a large amount, even if its in a McD burger I think the general public will soon make their views known. I used to sell food at outside events, the burger van always makes the most money by far, and my biggest seller was the bacon bap. I also sold veggi food, and didn't sell a lot of it unless it was a bigger festival and a very small % of sales in relation to other catering. So whilist I think people may cut down on meat consumption there is a majority that do not have a voice, like the Brexit factor, who would be resistant to forced change.
We are also going through a period of relitive world instability. The coronavirus if nothing else has shown us how dependant we are on imports, the fires in Ausrailia may effect world food prices. In 2018 when whole herds of cattle were slaughtered in Norway due to drought and poor harvests meant there was no fodder for the winter, so even Europe is not immune.
Some parts of the UK have seen so much rain that crops planted have not grown, so I think in the summer food prices will increase any way, eggs and milk are far too cheap and lots of producers are getting out. We can not grow a lot of foods necessary for a nutritionally compleat plant based diet, so the diet woul be reliant on imports.
I go on another forum, for small holders and Sallyinthenorth, on about the third post down on is attached link makes a really good point, what do we do with all these animals?
https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=108940.75
Farmers are only just covering their costs, and even losing money and are getting out, so you either have to paid to keep them until they die or have a mass cull, and export the meat.
So like electric cars change if any, will happan slowly, there is so much money tied up in food production and land in the UK that the present goverment many of whom are supported from the Tory shires,would not be happy with the change, and I think the Red seats gained would be pretty hacked off if food prices increase and they have to pay more for the Sunday carvery.

I like to think that sooner or later common sense, or the vocal man or woman in the street will take over.

 

[Oldvatr]

The bill in the House of Lords last week was the Farmers Bill, and in it in small print was a change to the Red Meat Levy. I believe that this is a tax raised on slaughterhouses to provide balancing between costs of this activity in the different countries in the UK. I believe but could be wrong that they are adding that the birth registration be linked to this levy. If so then this would provide a ready legal admin pathway to raise the prices for just red meat without requiring further acts of parliament. It would be a small one liner in the budget then to up this 'existing' tax. I believe the Bill passed both houses on second reading and will shortly become law.

Why was the Red Meat Levy part of the bill that was merely an insturment to provide the funding to farmers to replace the CAP payments to them as we leave the EU admin.

 

[Honeyend]

The Levy in terms of the cost of production is a relitively small amount, notice its hardly anything for sheep
.http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/about/levy-rates/
http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/about/ahdb-beef-lamb-strategy/

 

[Oldvatr]

The Levy in terms of the cost of production is a relitively small amount, notice its hardly anything for sheep
.http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/about/levy-rates/
http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/about/ahdb-beef-lamb-strategy/

Exactly, so no one raises an eybrow while it gets altered slightly, but it is an ideal candidate for budget manipulation just like the fuel duty escalator, The gov now gas a tax in place, the admin to control and enforce it and the collection system already up and running, All that is necessary is to set the appropriate rate. What it is today is not very relevant, There is no need to take it to parlianebt to get approval - it already has it. The clue is in my question, what was it doing in this bill when it should have been in either the agriculture bill or the environment bill due in the coming months. They hid it in this one. and it seems to be out of place.

 

[jjraak]

The clue is in my question, what was it doing in this bill when it should have been in either the agriculture bill or the environment bill due in the coming months. They hid it in this one. and it seems to be out of place.

An interesting point you make, @Oldvatr
Makes one think.

 

[WackyJacky64]

There is a video on youtube about Greta Thunberg its called 'Greta Thunberg is a Liar '.

 

[Honeyend]

Exactly, so no one raises an eybrow while it gets altered slightly, but it is an ideal candidate for budget manipulation just like the fuel duty escalator, The gov now gas a tax in place, the admin to control and enforce it and the collection system already up and running, All that is necessary is to set the appropriate rate. What it is today is not very relevant, There is no need to take it to parlianebt to get approval - it already has it. The clue is in my question, what was it doing in this bill when it should have been in either the agriculture bill or the environment bill due in the coming months. They hid it in this one. and it seems to be out of place.

I will admit I have not read the proposed bill, but it would change the whole purpose of the Levy which is to support meat production. I have used its online resources for in formation. The AHDB, which takes the levy for use is a non govermental department, it is run to support the farming industry, there is also an opt out every so many years, so producers could choose to disband it.
'We exist to enhance the profitability and sustainability of the English beef and lamb sector.'
They could use the R&D to support alternatives to meat production but I doubt whether this would comply for the reason for it existance.
The change of its purpose is not in its news section,https://ahdb.org.uk/news

 

[Mike d]

Let's see what Joaquin Phoenix has in store for the planet ... Follywood at its best

 

[Member496333]

Let's see what Joaquin Phoenix has in store for the planet ... Follywood at its best

I think he wants to stop starving children in 3rd world poverty from drinking goats milk? Perhaps he’s going to fly over drums of almond milk in cargo planes from California?

 

[Barb McD]

With canapés

 

[Rubyjewelz]

We have a similar attitude here in Australia,



I will not be reducing my consumption of meat inc. bacon, and dairy products as I support the producers of all of these food items.

No need too if you go for the Keto way of eating. ...meat is good for you ...x

 

[zand]

No need too if you go for the Keto way of eating. ...meat is good for you ...x

But only if you are still able to buy it.

 

[lucylocket61]

There is a video on youtube about Greta Thunberg its called 'Greta Thunberg is a Liar '.

deleted as i was off topic.

 

[lucylocket61]

No need too if you go for the Keto way of eating. ...meat is good for you ...x

You will if it becomes unavailable or rationed, which is where the new laws and agreements are talking us.