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And so it begins: Eat less meat or we’ll make you.

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Oldvatr said:
In my area this is becoming a serious problem
https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/28/vega...nt-8404499/?ito=article.amp.share.top.twitter
My local butcher has been threatened with being firebombed while he and his family sleep in the flat above the shop. His daughter has been seriosusly bullied at school and in the street because of his trade,
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I don't disagree with debate and protest if such.

But i do disagree with direct action like this.

i think it's called bullying in polite society, but intimidation/terrorism during most civil unrest
We had extinction rebellion in London a while back.

i saw the idiot on the top of the tube, and those glued/handcuffed to the trains...very much an own goal.

seems rather wreckless and dangerous, but hey if that want to that..good on em,
(them tunnels would have hurt.though)
and the rest of us wanted to go to work, can't see we couldn't have just all got along and just all got what we wanted,,;)
 
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I believe climate change is very real. Look at Antarctica, it is melting incredibly fast. Sea levels are rising. Acidity levels aren’t on the increase and the world is getting warmer faster than at any time in its existence. It is the speed of warming that makes it a clear cut response to man’s doing.
 
Roller said:
I believe climate change is very real. Look at Antarctica, it is melting incredibly fast. Sea levels are rising. Acidity levels aren’t on the increase and the world is getting warmer faster than at any time in its existence. It is the speed of warming that makes it a clear cut response to man’s doing.
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But the entire thread is about WHAT should that response be.

knee jerk or reasoned educated debate...that's the question.
 
jjraak said:
But the entire thread is about WHAT should that response be.

knee jerk or reasoned educated debate...that's the question.
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Oh. That’s easy. The answer is to stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. We have unleashed in 100 or so years the amounts of carbon that had been stored like a battery under the surface, having taken many millions of years to accumulate in the first place. That’s asking for trouble.
 
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jjraak said:
what was that written, about not coming for us as groups but one by one...?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
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oh no. I mean I love the way the writer expressed themselves and the concerns and issues and choices put on us. I thought the style was calm, thoughtful, and with hints of irony.

Not the message contained in it. The article showed the impossible and unrealistic choices being made, and how small insignificant things are being made the focus, instead of tacking the big problems, like military actions their affect on climate change.
 
Roller said:
Oh. That’s easy. The answer is not stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere. We have unleashed in 100 or so years the amounts of carbon that have been stored like a battery under the surface, having taken many millions of years to accumulate in the first place. That’s asking for trouble.
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Yes, but we need to have reasoned debate about how to stop the carbon rise. Proper factual grown up discussions and resolutions.
 
lucylocket61 said:
Yes, but we need to have reasoned debate about how to stop the carbon rise. Proper factual grown up discussions and resolutions.
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That is factual and reasoned. Those facts are very well known. If you Google in the right places you will see for yourself. The same goes for the solution as it is the reverse of the cause.
 
Roller said:
That is factual and reasoned. Those facts are very well known. If you Google in the right places you will see for yourself. The same goes for the solution as it is the reverse of the cause.
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I am not arguing about global climate change existence.

I am saying that the solutions to the situation need to be based on facts and not the knee jerk reactions we are currently getting based on private agendas and hidden interests by several pressure groups.
 
lucylocket61 said:
I am not arguing about global climate change existence.

I am saying that the solutions to the situation need to be based on facts and not the knee jerk reactions we are currently getting based on private agendas and hidden interests by several pressure groups.
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I don’t see any knee jerk reactions. Quite the opposite. We are slow to do something about it. It remains to be seen if we do act in time. In the meantime climate change and its consequences are heading towards us year on year.
 
I do not believe climate change is real I believe it is weather patterns and that is all we are seeing now , however I do believe we need to look after the planet and certainly stop dumping rubbish into the seas and oceans, I often walk along the beach and pick plastic up and other rubbish that has been dropped, i always end up with two large black bin liners full .
 
WackyJacky64 said:
I do not believe climate change is real I believe it is weather patterns and that is all we are seeing now , however I do believe we need to look after the planet and certainly stop dumping rubbish into the seas and oceans, I often walk along the beach and pick plastic up and other rubbish that has been dropped, i always end up with two large black bin liners full .
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Totally agree. Carbon dioxide is an inert gas and the solar cycles determine weather patterns, not us.

Pollution however IS a major issue and the CC religion ignores that. IMO of course
 
Roller said:
That is factual and reasoned. Those facts are very well known. If you Google in the right places you will see for yourself. The same goes for the solution as it is the reverse of the cause.
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There are also natural mechanisms at work
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/7/130723-east-antarctic-ice-sheet-melt-global-warming/
it seems that as ice increases depth, it increases pressure on the junction with the land below, and this raises the temperature at the bottom layers, These melt and start a chain reaction that gives spasms of intermittent loss of polar ice and also loss of glaciers. It is not all man made. This info was reported on decades ago when they started ice cores at the polar extremes, and they discovered periodic repetition of ice melts on a natural cycle. This is conveniently ignored by todays enviromentalists.

Part of todays problem is the pollution landing on the pristine snow covering, making it absorn more heat and reduce reflection of energy back into space. it is the soot that is also having major effects on the climate, and not just CO2 amd methane. We do need to stop burning fossil fuels, and instead make electricity our main energy driver is sensible. Making batteries an integral part of that is not sensible. We should be using spare electricity to pump hydroelectric schemes and then use gravity as our battery. Pump water back into tidal lagoons and reservoirs. Makes eelectricity generation sustainable, and helps protect our water sources too.
 
Roller said:
That is factual and reasoned. Those facts are very well known. If you Google in the right places you will see for yourself. The same goes for the solution as it is the reverse of the cause.
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We need to take a step back to ensure that the facts are the facts.

To be up front I believe climate change is real. I object to interest groups using the animal agriculture to attempt to destroy this medicine for a huge population, for ideological/ religious reasons; whilst having the knock on effect of shilling for fake food.

To my original point I am uncomfortable with expert opinion to contrary views being heard, this is akin to Eric Westman or Sarah Halberg or Stephen Phinney not being on major public health boards of international influence. I want to know if climate change formulas have changed (I think I read they exclude the influence of the sun). I want those who are on decision making panels to have full conflict checks.

Why should "we" blindly trust experts, we did this we low fat, cholesterol / statins, epidemiology studies / relative risk and deisel emissions etc.

If we leave the facts unchallenged we'll get sh...ted again....now some are making noises about the uselessness of hybrid cars. And as for electric cars I am dubious of the lifecycle elements.
 
Mike D said:
Totally agree. Carbon dioxide is an inert gas and the solar cycles determine weather patterns, not us.

Pollution however IS a major issue and the CC religion ignores that. IMO of course
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Carbon dioxide is an inert gas. Yes. And there is more of it in the Earths atmosphere than at any time over some millions of years, before man arrived on the planet. The CO2 we are putting into the atmosphere was deposited many millions of years ago as another form of carbon, over the course of millions of years. This is not really disputable. Man has consumed half of that accumulation almost in the “blink of an eye”. Given that it is an awful lot of carbon that we are talking about, that’s a lot of CO2 that we have pumped into the atmosphere. To get our heads around that we have to appreciate the deep time ( many millions ) involved in the original accumulation and then compare with the relatively short time (100 or so years) that we have blown it away into the atmosphere.

We know when the carbon was accumulated, how long it took to accumulate and how long it has been sitting around under the ground,until unleashed by man. It is common knowledge in scientific circles.
 
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Roller said:
Carbon dioxide is an inert gas. Yes. And there is more of it in the Earths atmosphere than at any time over some millions of years, before man arrived on the planet. The CO2 we are putting into the atmosphere was deposited many millions of years ago as another form of carbon, over the course of millions of years. This is not really disputable. Man has consumed half of that accumulation almost in the “blink of an eye”. Given that it is an awful lot of carbon that we are talking about, that’s a lot of CO2 that we have pumped into the atmosphere. To get our heads around that we have to appreciate the deep time ( many millions ) involved in the original accumulation and then compare with the relatively short time (100 or so years) that we have blown it away into the atmosphere.

We know when the carbon was accumulated, how long it took to accumulate and how long it has been sitting around under the ground,until unleashed by man. It is common knowledge in scientific circles.
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Agree that fossil fuels should not be wasted like they are today. However, it is an oversmplification since once again the earth has natural non anthropogenically caused events that do the same on a large scale too. For GHG there is the natural growth / decay cycle of vegetation that starts off capturing carbon. but then releases it all again as GHG and ash. Forest fires are a natural event that spews vast tonnage of GHG into the atmosphere. Volcanoes do the same. marshland and lakes and stagnant water all contribute too. Now these do not involve mans activity, but we are not helping at the moment, In my lifetime farmers and forest rangers used sensible practices to contain nature such as putting in firebreaks, draining swampland, controlling watersupply with dykes and drainage etc, and using controlled burns and stubble removal to reduce undergrowth. Howerev in the last couple of decades, factory farming has caused the Great Depression and its dustbowl, and then we built houses and factories on floodplains. We have stopped dredging our rivers, we put water streams underground into culverts that block. We stop the aborigines doing their annual land maintenance rituals to burn off scrubland.

We have lost the skills that our forebears used to control the land, and we greedily join into the throw away society. We use plastic daipers instead of the terry nappies, then wonder why our wetwipes cause fatbergs. We ignore the way it used to be done, and we create speedy one off solutions that make life easier, but at the same time make life unsustainable.
 
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