Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[Hopeful34]

Teachers in the Isle of Man can wear a mask, gloves or visor if they want to. They locked down their border early on, have had very few cases, apart from one care home, and since the borders been reopened, anyone returning to the island from anywhere has had to isolate at home. Those isolating are having spot checks done, to ensure they are at home. How come they can get it so right, and we can't?!!

 

[Mr_Pot]

Teachers in the Isle of Man can wear a mask, gloves or visor if they want to. They locked down their border early on, have had very few cases, apart from one care home, and since the borders been reopened, anyone returning to the island from anywhere has had to isolate at home. Those isolating are having spot checks done, to ensure they are at home. How come they can get it so right, and we can't?!!

Probably because their population is 84,000, rather easier to manage than the 66,000,000 population of the UK. If you multiply their figures by 800 they are probably not much different from the UK average and I am sure there are some small UK towns that have done even better. A lot of it is down to chance and bad luck.

 

[Tannith]

Teachers who own their own homes might be able to remortgage them to get enough money to live on until they can get vaccinated. That would allow them to leave their jobs now and go back to teaching/ classroom support later with no bad record.

 

[lucylocket61]

Teachers who own their own homes might be able to remortgage them to get enough money to live on until they can get vaccinated. That would allow them to leave their jobs now and go back to teaching/ classroom support later with no bad record.

how can they remortgage them if they have no income? not to mention living on the money raised, increasing their debt and incurring several hundred pounds (at least) of fees to arrange this.

 

[Daphne917]

Teachers who own their own homes might be able to remortgage them to get enough money to live on until they can get vaccinated. That would allow them to leave their jobs now and go back to teaching/ classroom support later with no bad record.

The same could be said for all workers, key or otherwise, who have kept working through the pandemic but how many actually want to, or feel they have to, leave their jobs?

 

[Tannith]

how can they remortgage them if they have no income? not to mention living on the money raised, increasing their debt and incurring several hundred pounds (at least) of fees to arrange this.

Get the mortgage while they still have a job and include enough in the loan to make the repayments. People only need to survive for about a year till there's a vaccine.

 

[DCUKMod]

Emailed my UNION earlier but again they are bound by Gov guidelines so not expecting much back. Rather than get advice re Covid though I am trying to get some advice on how to leave my job without being blackballed for Universal Credit by resigning. Pity I am not on a fixed contract as that would solve the problem although considering they placed me on a temporary 3 day contract there might be a way to use that.

A sensible temporary contract always has an exit clause. That exit can be the end of employment or if the temporary contract is a variation in the usually contracted hours, it is likely to be reversion to pre-change terms. The latter could be the case in your case. Your contract or letter acting are a codicil will inform you.

As I recall it, you requested the change to your terms, so your employer may already see themselves as making adjustments to suit meet your request.

I'm making no judgement, just interpreting what I recall reading along the way.

 

[Tannith]

The same could be said for all workers, key or otherwise, who have kept working through the pandemic but how many actually want to, or feel they have to, leave their jobs?

Well a lot of the teachers and education support do - see the return to work thread. They are worried that the Govt is forcing them back to work with no protection whatever. They are not even allowed to wear PPE if they bring it themselves. As to the children, the Tinies can't social distance or observe hygiene measures and many of the the teens won't.Unlike key workers treating the sick, caring for the old and providing access to food etc, teachers, though desirable, are not essential workers, Home education is not a life threatening emergency

 

[Max68]

A sensible temporary contract always has an exit clause. That exit can be the end of employment or if the temporary contract is a variation in the usually contracted hours, it is likely to be reversion to pre-change terms. The latter could be the case in your case. Your contract or letter acting are a codicil will inform you.

As I recall it, you requested the change to your terms, so your employer may already see themselves as making adjustments to suit meet your request.

I'm making no judgement, just interpreting what I recall reading along the way.

Yep. Was on five day contract but found it tough dealing with my mothers affairs as well after she was diagnosed with dementia and working full time so they kindly agreed to me working four days, which worked out perfectly. Then Covid hit and when most staff went back they agreed I could work from home but asked me to go on to a three day contract and wage which I accepted as a compromise. Come September I would be due to go back to four days. There could be an option if I was to leave to say a temporary contract has come to an end (ie Fixed), although I suspect it may look a bit odd having a Fixed contract that comes to an end at the start of September. Usually one would end at the end of the school year rather than the start of the next one.

 

[DCUKMod]

Yep. Was on five day contract but found it tough dealing with my mothers affairs as well after she was diagnosed with dementia and working full time so they kindly agreed to me working four days, which worked out perfectly. Then Covid hit and when most staff went back they agreed I could work from home but asked me to go on to a three day contract and wage which I accepted as a compromise. Come September I would be due to go back to four days. There could be an option if I was to leave to say a temporary contract has come to an end (ie Fixed), although I suspect it may look a bit odd having a Fixed contract that comes to an end at the start of September. Usually one would end at the end of the school year rather than the start of the next one.

Does your amended contract, or your letter containing a statement of your terms of employment talk about an end period? If so, what does it say?

 

[LooperCat]

Well a lot of the teachers and education support do - see the return to work thread. They are worried that the Govt is forcing them back to work with no protection whatever. They are not even allowed to wear PPE if they bring it themselves. As to the children, the Tinies can't social distance or observe hygiene measures and many of the the teens won't.Unlike key workers treating the sick, caring for the old and providing access to food etc, teachers, though desirable, are not essential workers, Home education is not a life threatening emergency

Yes. It’s the not being allowed to wear PPE that is behind my decision not to go back to teaching this term.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Yes. It’s the not being allowed to wear PPE that is behind my decision not to go back to teaching this term.

Unless you are going to wear full medical PPE isn't it the children who need to wear a mask to protect you - I don't think there is much chance of that happening.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

Unless you are going to wear full medical PPE isn't it the children who need to wear a mask to protect you - I don't think there is much chance of that happening.

All our schools here are opening and everyone, including kindergarten kids age 5 and all staff must wear a mask.
Can be done but wether or not is is going to be effective is still up for debate.

 

[HSSS]

I see your point but it is wrong.
A school no matter how many time the classes change through out the day is still the same pupils in the same building each and every day. It is not comparable to a pub shop or train station, a collection of random strangers interacting and spreading an infection, that would be much harder to trace.

The concern is containment not safety.

It’s not even that. Yes you can trace school kids in a way you can’t shop customers etc. But if containment is the goal, despite protection being the headline, how does more than 2000 teens per school spreading it amongst themselves rapidly, then their families and other contacts including on buses, trains and shops (and then each of these contacts onward transmissions) contain it in any way shape or form?

 

[Tannith]

Yep. Was on five day contract but found it tough dealing with my mothers affairs as well after she was diagnosed with dementia and working full time so they kindly agreed to me working four days, which worked out perfectly. Then Covid hit and when most staff went back they agreed I could work from home but asked me to go on to a three day contract and wage which I accepted as a compromise. Come September I would be due to go back to four days. There could be an option if I was to leave to say a temporary contract has come to an end (ie Fixed), although I suspect it may look a bit odd having a Fixed contract that comes to an end at the start of September. Usually one would end at the end of the school year rather than the start of the next one.

Not sure the contract terms are the problem.Even if it has ended, if you go on Universal Credit they will almost certainly tell you to try to get it renewed or to take another school job. There will probably be some of those available because of school staff who have managed to afford to leave theirs for the same reasons as you, understandably, want to leave if you can't work from home. Do you have any other health conditions apart from T2 you could use in your arguments?

 

[LooperCat]

Unless you are going to wear full medical PPE isn't it the children who need to wear a mask to protect you - I don't think there is much chance of that happening.

It’s all about risk *reduction* - you obviously can’t negate it entirely. I would (if I went back to teaching part time) wear the same masks that I do in my ambulance job: a type 2R fluid repellant surgical mask. We only wear the full-on FFP3 masks for suspected/confirmed Covid patients. I would require the same level of harm reduction in any workplace. I’m not requiring the schools I work in to provide them, I have my own. But to be forbidden to use some protective equipment that would mitigate my risk as someone with an autoimmune disease is wrong.

 

[Tannith]

It’s all about risk *reduction* - you obviously can’t negate it entirely. I would (if I went back to teaching part time) wear the same masks that I do in my ambulance job: a type 2R fluid repellant surgical mask. We only wear the full-on FFP3 masks for suspected/confirmed Covid patients. I would require the same level of harm reduction in any workplace. I’m not requiring the schools I work in to provide them, I have my own. But to be forbidden to use some protective equipment that would mitigate my risk as someone with an autoimmune disease is wrong.

When they tried to re-open the schools in June Boris pronounced that suddenly the virus could only spread at under 1 metre distance instead of 2 metres. Perhaps the virus had heard that UK wanted to open schools and kindly obliged by reducing it's spread capacity? Is it also possible that Boris has forbidden masks in schools because, though teachers might (possibly) be expected to bring their own, the Govt would be expected to provide them for all children. Possibly even more than one a day, every day. The Govt was unable to provide enough soon enough even for health care workers, early on in the pandemic. Perhaps they don't want to have to provide them for children as well especially if we have a second wave and there are shortages again. So they declare that schools don't need them. Let's hope that many parents rebel and refuse to send their children back unless schools can be made safe.

 

[urbanracer]

When they tried to re-open the schools in June Boris pronounced that suddenly the virus could only spread at under 1 metre distance instead of 2 metres. Perhaps the virus had heard that UK wanted to open schools and kindly obliged by reducing it's spread capacity?.

And it will be interesting to see if this ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/15/coronavirus-could-travel-five-metres-air-study-finds/ ) affects government policy in any way.

 

[Max68]

Does your amended contract, or your letter containing a statement of your terms of employment talk about an end period? If so, what does it say?

My contract amendment states the following - Obviously bits taken out re privacy.

RE Change of Terms and Conditions / Variation of Contract Letter
I am writing to confirm the agreed changes to your terms and conditions of employment with effect from 1st May 2020 and please find below the appropriate details.
It is important to note that the changes are temporary and will end on 1st September 2020. In the event that the change relates to a new job title and salary, please note that you will return to your substantive post on the end date if your secondment hasn't been successful.

New contract:
N/A
New contractual working hours:
24 hours
New Hourly rate of pay I salary:
*****
New working pattern:
3 days a week
New Location:
N/A
Job title (includes Promotion):
N/A
Effective date of Change:
1st May 2020

All your other terms and conditions of employment remain unchanged and your continuous service will remain as your original start date.

There is also an email from my Head to HR which states -

Hi ****,

I have spoken with **** and we have agreed that his contract will be for 3 days a week until September 1st. At that point **** will return to his 4 day contract assuming he his able to return to normal duties

**** are you able to put the above into ***** contract.

Thanks

****

The irony being my Union and I insisted on a rewording because the original suggested I would stay on three days come September, so we needed an amendment to show I would go back on my four day agreement come September,. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!!!

Not sure the contract terms are the problem.Even if it has ended, if you go on Universal Credit they will almost certainly tell you to try to get it renewed or to take another school job. There will probably be some of those available because of school staff who have managed to afford to leave theirs for the same reasons as you, understandably, want to leave if you can't work from home. Do you have any other health conditions apart from T2 you could use in your arguments?

You are absolutely right in what you say. I'm male for a start and that's a risk in itself by all accounts. I am on blood pressure pills but I take it regularly and it isn't a current problem. Had a 24 hr monitor last year as well and all was fine. I am a long term smoker although I have cut down since Covid (self inflicted I know so no lectures please!!) so I guess that increases my risk even if I gave up today!! Had a heart scan last year and all was also fine so the only thing that gives me grief on and off is my Vestibular Hypofunction and I had a two year battle with the DWP over Employment and Support Allowance some years ago anyway with that and unless it gets worse I can't reclaim.

I think my only option is to just risk it and hope, along with thousands of others. I could I guess lower my risk by sticking on three days rather than four but my wage would be wiped out on fuel. Think it will be anyway as on four days I was lucky to be transporting a student three days a week with the school car so that saved me £200 per week but that won't happen in September.

Fingers crossed either the Union or MP come back with something but not holding my breath!

 

[JRT]

My contract amendment states the following - Obviously bits taken out re privacy.

RE Change of Terms and Conditions / Variation of Contract Letter
I am writing to confirm the agreed changes to your terms and conditions of employment with effect from 1st May 2020 and please find below the appropriate details.
It is important to note that the changes are temporary and will end on 1st September 2020. In the event that the change relates to a new job title and salary, please note that you will return to your substantive post on the end date if your secondment hasn't been successful.

New contract:
N/A
New contractual working hours:
24 hours
New Hourly rate of pay I salary:
*****
New working pattern:
3 days a week
New Location:
N/A
Job title (includes Promotion):
N/A
Effective date of Change:
1st May 2020

All your other terms and conditions of employment remain unchanged and your continuous service will remain as your original start date.

There is also an email from my Head to HR which states -

Hi ****,

I have spoken with **** and we have agreed that his contract will be for 3 days a week until September 1st. At that point **** will return to his 4 day contract assuming he his able to return to normal duties

**** are you able to put the above into ***** contract.

Thanks

****

The irony being my Union and I insisted on a rewording because the original suggested I would stay on three days come September, so we needed an amendment to show I would go back on my four day agreement come September,. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!!!




You are absolutely right in what you say. I'm male for a start and that's a risk in itself by all accounts. I am on blood pressure pills but I take it regularly and it isn't a current problem. Had a 24 hr monitor last year as well and all was fine. I am a long term smoker although I have cut down since Covid (self inflicted I know so no lectures please!!) so I guess that increases my risk even if I gave up today!! Had a heart scan last year and all was also fine so the only thing that gives me grief on and off is my Vestibular Hypofunction and I had a two year battle with the DWP over Employment and Support Allowance some years ago anyway with that and unless it gets worse I can't reclaim.

I think my only option is to just risk it and hope, along with thousands of others. I could I guess lower my risk by sticking on three days rather than four but my wage would be wiped out on fuel. Think it will be anyway as on four days I was lucky to be transporting a student three days a week with the school car so that saved me £200 per week but that won't happen in September.

Fingers crossed either the Union or MP come back with something but not holding my breath!

I can only hope that Union have some useful advice soon. Of course the problem is as is quoted as nauseam we are living in unprecedented times. We are trying to resolve problems arising from Coronavirus with legislation and procedures precovid(apart from some new laws).
If you do go back for three days,depending on your circumstances you may still be entitled to Universal Credit. Its certainly worth checking it out on a benefit checker.
Maybe the situation will change before then..
If you do feel you have no choice but to leave even that isnt as predictable as this time last year. Unemployment is skyrocketing and that's before the furlough scheme ends. If the economy nosedives as predicted there will be as yet unseen numbers of unemployed chasing after every opportunity. It could mean you end up initially forced into another teaching job,in which case maybe the better the devil you know, or it could mean you wont get another job for years.
The only major change would be a safe and reliable vaccine. No one can say when that will be available or indeed even if it will be.
Meanwhile the Government seems to skip from one unbelievable scenario to the next. Whilst we are digesting the A Level farce it is announced that PHE and tracking and tracing is being disbanded to be replaced with a whole new system that still seems to be connected to Boris's chums.
I wouldn't be surprised if I wake up tomorrow to find the NHS is now being run by Wetherspoons and we have a brand new world beating vaccine devised by Matt Hancock and Gavin Williamson (using their Chemistry Set for beginners) which is distributed by Ocardo . Maybe I will step out the shower and it will all just be a dream