Newly diagnosed as type 2 diabetes

[chrisjohnh]

This analogy assumes that our bodies are like combustion engines and weight loss is achieved by reducing calories, but this is incorrect. Most diets fail because of this approach. If you reduce calorie intake you will initially lose weight, but then your base metabolic rate will go down, so that say instead of needing 2000 calories per day you will only need 1500 calories per day. You will then stop losing, even gaining weight, be hungry all the time, which will make you miserable and you will eventually give up. This leads to yo-yo dieting.
Our bodies are hormonal engines. When the body produces insulin we get hungry. Eating carbs will only give you a quick fix and make you more hungry. By replacing carbs with fat you will get more satiated and won't feel hungry or miserable anymore. For some people this switch is sufficient to lose weight. Intermittent fasting has worked for me, and I lost 10 kg. It is well tested by human evolution, when our ancestors failed to hunt mammoth they had not enough food and the body starts to burn the fat around around male bellies.

Very many thanks for these detailed observations. For me, I lost 15kg just by low-ish carbs and real foods, plus more exercise. I never had a moment’s hunger and it was totally easy - I was lucky.

 

[G3S]

There is some good discussion going on between chrisjohn and bulkbiker. Sorry I m pretty new to this and couldnt contribute. Currently overwhelmed by this diagnosis. though i know i will be in this situation because of my poor lifesytle. But this is not the right time to hear such news since I m stressed with my personal life.

I would like to get some advise around how to manage the hunger. Earlier i used to have my breakfast around 8 - 8.30 and lunch around 1 o clock. In the recent weeks, i m getting so hungry by 11.30 or so. should i eat something to satiate the hunger or should i wait till my lunch?

This could be pretty basic or rather stupid question. Could anyone please help me with this query.

 

[bulkbiker]

For myself I am aware that 12 months after diagnosis of T2D about 1 in 20 will be in remission, after 24 months about 1 in 60 and after 5 years fewer than 1 in 10,000. No wonder long term remission is a mere fairytale to most GPs, most will never encounter such a case in their entire careers. We need to know whether those thousands of relapsers gained weight or gained carbs or gained junk food or lost functioning beta cells. Why did it all go wrong for them? Will it go wrong for me likewise? None of us knows …

Not sure I can agree with you there.
7 years post diagnosis (HbA1c 87 mmol/mol) and still in remission with most of my weight loss sustained.
At my doctors surgery I'm an outlier.. on this site I'm one of thousands.

It's possible (some might say quite easy) once you know the right things to do.

 

[bulkbiker]

There is some good discussion going on between chrisjohn and bulkbiker. Sorry I m pretty new to this and couldnt contribute. Currently overwhelmed by this diagnosis. though i know i will be in this situation because of my poor lifesytle. But this is not the right time to hear such news since I m stressed with my personal life.

I would like to get some advise around how to manage the hunger. Earlier i used to have my breakfast around 8 - 8.30 and lunch around 1 o clock. In the recent weeks, i m getting so hungry by 11.30 or so. should i eat something to satiate the hunger or should i wait till my lunch?

This could be pretty basic or rather stupid question. Could anyone please help me with this query.

That will likely depend on what you are having for breakfast.
I only have coffee with double cream in the morning and don't eat until mid afternoon.
Don't get any hunger pangs.

 

[MrsA2]

There is some good discussion going on between chrisjohn and bulkbiker. Sorry I m pretty new to this and couldnt contribute. Currently overwhelmed by this diagnosis. though i know i will be in this situation because of my poor lifesytle. But this is not the right time to hear such news since I m stressed with my personal life.

I would like to get some advise around how to manage the hunger. Earlier i used to have my breakfast around 8 - 8.30 and lunch around 1 o clock. In the recent weeks, i m getting so hungry by 11.30 or so. should i eat something to satiate the hunger or should i wait till my lunch?

This could be pretty basic or rather stupid question. Could anyone please help me with this query.

I find a spoonful or 2 of either greek yoghurt ( not the low fat varieties) or a spoonful or 2 of double cream (or added to coffee) are just enough to take the edge off my appetite.
If those don't work for you, listen to your body and feed it!
None of us are the same, and even our individual needs may change over time.

Do you use a bg monitor? That's your best friend to show you what your body can eat. If you can eat a food without your bg going up, you can eat as much of that food as you want, until satiated.

Hope this helps,a nd keep the questions coming. It's a huge learning curve and doesn't need to be learned all at once. Go at a pace you are comfortable with.

 

[chrisjohnh]

Not sure I can agree with you there.
7 years post diagnosis (HbA1c 87 mmol/mol) and still in remission with most of my weight loss sustained.
At my doctors surgery I'm an outlier.. on this site I'm one of thousands.

It's possible (some might say quite easy) once you know the right things to do.

Yes, many long term remissions within the forum but together just a tiny fraction among the hundreds of millions of T2Ds outside it.

 

[bulkbiker]

Yes, many long term remissions within the forum but together just a tiny fraction among the hundreds of millions of T2Ds outside it.

That's partly (mainly) because so few doctors know what to recommend when dealing with T2 outside of "have some metformin and come back when you need something stronger".

Edit to add .. we need to be very careful about blaming patients... if they aren't informed what to do how can we expect better outcomes?

 

[chrisjohnh]

That's partly (mainly) because so few doctors know what to recommend when dealing with T2 outside of "have some metformin and come back when you need something stronger".

Edit to add .. we need to be very careful about blaming patients... if they aren't informed what to do how can we expect better outcomes?

Absolutely true. Knowledge is the key.

 

[Resurgam]

So many people still believe that a high carb diet is healthy, pushing 'whole food' and 'whole grain' and the mantra of low fat as the way to eat, when more and more people are getting a diagnosis of diabetes after years of feeling not quite right and struggling to conform to the idea of fitness as being able to outrun a diet which is not right for them.
For many it really is as simple as eating protein and fat (!!) and reducing starch and sugar.
Dr Atkins tried to get LCHF accepted as healthy, but was attacked for making people better.

 

[G3S]

I find a spoonful or 2 of either greek yoghurt ( not the low fat varieties) or a spoonful or 2 of double cream (or added to coffee) are just enough to take the edge off my appetite.
If those don't work for you, listen to your body and feed it!
None of us are the same, and even our individual needs may change over time.

Do you use a bg monitor? That's your best friend to show you what your body can eat. If you can eat a food without your bg going up, you can eat as much of that food as you want, until satiated.

Hope this helps,a nd keep the questions coming. It's a huge learning curve and doesn't need to be learned all at once. Go at a pace you are comfortable with.

Hi MrsA2,

Thanks for your response. I am yet to get the BG monitor and I got diagnosed on Tuesday and i was pretty worried and found out this forum through online. Like you said its huge learning to understand about the disease and measures which needs to take under control and soon. I m starting this journey with the support from this forum and i m finding really helpful and feel confident that i can do it as well. Thanks everyone for taking to their respond to my questions.

@MrsA2: During the initial phase, Did you measure the BG level after every meals to see how the body reacts to each foods?

Also there are some questions around the LCHF/Keto diet, I am Vegetarian and i m finding difficult to understand from where i will get the proteins and Fats. Earlier i used to Lentils and cottage cheese but that is not allowed in KETO diet because of carbs ration. If you could share some information on the lines will be helpful.

Thanks,
G3S

 

[Resurgam]

Cottage cheese is fine - particularly if it isn't low fat. Most cheese is good - there are some which have additions which are high in carbs, which are not good choices.
I have cheese with salad as a meal for hot weather.

 

[andromache]

There is some good discussion going on between chrisjohn and bulkbiker. Sorry I m pretty new to this and couldnt contribute. Currently overwhelmed by this diagnosis. though i know i will be in this situation because of my poor lifesytle. But this is not the right time to hear such news since I m stressed with my personal life.

I would like to get some advise around how to manage the hunger. Earlier i used to have my breakfast around 8 - 8.30 and lunch around 1 o clock. In the recent weeks, i m getting so hungry by 11.30 or so. should i eat something to satiate the hunger or should i wait till my lunch?

This could be pretty basic or rather stupid question. Could anyone please help me with this query.

Questions about how to manage hunger are always good questions. Many of us find that a nourishing breakfast of eggs (3 scrambled with some cream and butter, for instance) staves off the pangs until lunch. Plenty of proteins and fats, low carb. And once you’re in practice you start cooking and finish eating in 5 minutes flat. A low carb cooked breakfast is quick if you aren’t messing about with toast etc - which you won’t be, of course.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi MrsA2,

Thanks for your response. I am yet to get the BG monitor and I got diagnosed on Tuesday and i was pretty worried and found out this forum through online. Like you said its huge learning to understand about the disease and measures which needs to take under control and soon. I m starting this journey with the support from this forum and i m finding really helpful and feel confident that i can do it as well. Thanks everyone for taking to their respond to my questions.

@MrsA2: During the initial phase, Did you measure the BG level after every meals to see how the body reacts to each foods?

Also there are some questions around the LCHF/Keto diet, I am Vegetarian and i m finding difficult to understand from where i will get the proteins and Fats. Earlier i used to Lentils and cottage cheese but that is not allowed in KETO diet because of carbs ration. If you could share some information on the lines will be helpful.

Thanks,
G3S

I'm guessing you aren't vegetarian for your health?

Its still possible to be fairly low carb.. eggs, avocados, macadamias lots of leafy stuff but it's far easier with meat and fish..

A friend of mine was vegan until diagnosed as pre diabetic. He then decided to go back to meat but used a local butcher for a weekly meat box of locally sourced farm raised meat. If that were something you'd consider your body and health would love you for it.

 

[lucylocket61]

There is some good discussion going on between chrisjohn and bulkbiker. Sorry I m pretty new to this and couldnt contribute. Currently overwhelmed by this diagnosis. though i know i will be in this situation because of my poor lifesytle. But this is not the right time to hear such news since I m stressed with my personal life.

I would like to get some advise around how to manage the hunger. Earlier i used to have my breakfast around 8 - 8.30 and lunch around 1 o clock. In the recent weeks, i m getting so hungry by 11.30 or so. should i eat something to satiate the hunger or should i wait till my lunch?

This could be pretty basic or rather stupid question. Could anyone please help me with this query.

cheese, any sort of cheese, is your friend when it comes to satisfying hunger pangs between meals.

 

[ThoseRainyDays]

That's partly (mainly) because so few doctors know what to recommend when dealing with T2 outside of "have some metformin and come back when you need something stronger".

Edit to add .. we need to be very careful about blaming patients... if they aren't informed what to do how can we expect better outcomes?

Completely agree. How many more diabetics would achieve remission if the NHS recommended reducing carbs and low carb diets instead of the eat well plate?

A lot of people put their trust in their Doctors and that they know what is right. Doctors probably do 95% of the time but they are also advised by the NICE guidelines (in the UK) and some are reluctant to move outside of those.

For myself, if I hadn't researched, joined this forum and taken in the information presented, I likely wouldn't have known it was even possible to achieve remission through low carb and changing my diet. Thankfully, all the wonderful information on here means I got my hba1c down to 36mmol after 3 months! I'm lucky in that respect but it took hard work. It would be interesting to know how many Type 2's achieve remission with medication or the eat well plate?

 

[MrsA2]

@MrsA2: During the initial phase, Did you measure the BG level after every meals to see how the body reacts to each foods?

Yes I did. It was a lot of tests, luckily for me it was in lockdown so I had nothing else to do! But it was so worthwhile. Now I only test once a day, or when on holiday or anywhere else where I am not in control of my food.

Can't help on the vegetarian front, my body works well on meat, but there are threads on it somewhere on this forum

 

[Lobsang Tsultim]

To cope with hunger, I've found having a variety of cheese is good, and/or some olives depending on what I fancy. If my craving is stronger, then a celery stick with peanut butter hits the mark quite well. If I know I will be on the move, I take a handful of nuts with me to munch on if needed. Pickled eggs are another choice (provided the vinegar isn't sweetened).

I think one of the tricky bits at the beginning is to let go of restricting fats. Restricting fats and eating a healthy wholefood and wholegrain carb-rich diet is what led me to type 2 diabetes. Dropping that worry about fat and not eating bread, pasta, grains, root vegetables, or pulses has led me to a normal HbA1c score and losing 13kg to 14kg, with hunger not being an issue. When I look at daily calories, I find I'm often running a deficit - but it's not because I'm trying to; I just feel satisfied on less.

Don't get me wrong; I still miss some of my favourite foods - my go-to comfort food for the last 40-something years has been beans on wholemeal toast with a dash of Worcestershire sauce and maybe some cheese melted on top. I can still have the cheese and the dash of sauce, but it's not the same

 

[MrsA2]

my go-to comfort food for the last 40-something years has been beans on wholemeal toast with a dash of Worcestershire sauce and maybe some cheese melted on top.

Ooh! That used to be mine too, especially after work trips abroad with 2 weeks of hotel food.
I tried a mouthful not so long ago, tasted foul, all sweet and craggy. I don't miss beans any more now!

 

[ianf0ster]

Is it truly about carbs and nothing else? My understanding, albeit provisional, is that the priority is to clear the excess fat from the liver and pancreas. If I reduce daily carbs to, say, 20g and at the same time (however much fats and protein it may require) consume 3000 cals whilst doing little exercise, will that visceral fat magically dissipate? I wish we all knew the definitive answer to this, if there is any.

I worry about the following analogy: say I have a car with an almost totally knackered engine and when I drive it above 10mph its behaviour is dangerously dysfunctional. So, I instead adopt the ultra-low-speed strategy (being "all that matters") to keep below 10mph and then describe my driving as being "in remission", even though the engine is still knackered and likely to become even more so as time goes on. Is remission merely getting continuing "good" HbA1c results by presenting few carbs to one's metabolism? Or is remission getting continuing "good" HbA1c results by clearing away that excess fat and then being able to eat plenty of carbs with a no longer knackered engine?

Oh for the truth about all this! All advice welcomed!

Yes, in most cases it will. Nothing beats low carb for getting rid of visceral fat! However only around 50% manage it, mainly because they are carb-addicted. Still 50% is a heck of a lot more than any conventional diet & exercise regime.

 

[MickeyD123]

Completely agree. How many more diabetics would achieve remission if the NHS recommended reducing carbs and low carb diets instead of the eat well plate?

A lot of people put their trust in their Doctors and that they know what is right. Doctors probably do 95% of the time but they are also advised by the NICE guidelines (in the UK) and some are reluctant to move outside of those.

For myself, if I hadn't researched, joined this forum and taken in the information presented, I likely wouldn't have known it was even possible to achieve remission through low carb and changing my diet. Thankfully, all the wonderful information on here means I got my hba1c down to 36mmol after 3 months! I'm lucky in that respect but it took hard work. It would be interesting to know how many Type 2's achieve remission with medication or the eat well plate?

I am in the same position newly diagnosed type 2 at 53mmol I don’t know what to eat doctors have not even told me or seen a diabetic advisor wher do I start please as I’m feeling awful today no energy lying in bed don’t know what I need to do ?