ADHD, anyone?

[Lainey c]

On the 22nd I'm going in for a consult to see what we're going to try next. Is there anyone here who has experience with T2 and ADHD medication? I've had trouble in the past with all types of antidepressants, alas, and now I'm worried the stimulants aren't going to be workable, but the more I know, the better. Anything I should watch out for, ask for? Supplements any good that don't mess with vein width? (Migraines....) I appreciate not all medications may be on offer here in the Netherlands, but you never know.

Hi JoKalsbeek,

I'm a newbie on this site - diagnosed T2 in December 2020 and now take Metformin 1000mg per day. I was then diagnosed with ADHD in January 2021 age 52! I take Elvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) Adult 40mg once per day. It's a long-acting stimulant and it was a revelation! I can completely relate to so much of your story - so here's a few pointers and insights from me in case any might be helpful:

1. All 3 of my children are also ADHD or AuDHD. It was obvious in my teenage son who was eventually diagnosed in 2019 in secondary school but he (we) did not get the help we needed or the meds. It was the tragedy of losing my son in 2020 that led to me seeking a diagnosis. My two adult daughters then more recently sought diagnoses themselves although they are all so different that none of us suspected we might all be ND! Now - although we are still all very different - we fully embrace our ND similarities and quirkyness. We are all still learning about ourselves - my middle daughter (still at uni) was also initially diagnosed with BPD but now takes methylphenidate (I think) along with various antidepressants and mood stabilisers. There is a big overlap between the emotional dysregulation of BPD and RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria) common in ADHD. My eldest daughter is a fully qualified professional (age 31) but currently chooses not to take meds. She is also quite fastidious in controlling her surroundings but acknowledges that is a learnt coping mechanism.

2. I am not able to post a link on this forum but I found the most helpful information from an American website (actually global) ADDitudemagazine dot com. It has vast amounts of information, comment and research articles to help you understand yourself and ways you can both build the 'scaffolding' you need to manage your life and ADHD symptoms and advocate / speak for your needs. There are loads of others though as well.

3. I also suffer migraines and hypertension and take meds for those. However, I think the hypertension meds help prevent migraines as occurrences have reduced significantly since I take BP meds. Whilst monitoring BP is important on ADHD meds, I have not found the ADHD meds raise my BP by very much. My biggest issue for both T2, ADHD and BP is the need to get out / move more / exercise regularly but this a problem as I have a professional job which requires me to sit at a computer for long hours (10+pd) so I'm still working on managing my time to fit exercise in.

4. My ADHD meds don't affect my BG - my last A1c result was 7.9% but that was after a period of not taking my Metformin for several weeks (one of the issues of having ADHD is managing your medication regimes!). Regular exercise and weight management will bring my A1c down and will also help me manage my ADHD symptoms and sleep issues.

5. I also have previously (pre-diagnosis) years ago been prescribed various anti-depressants and found they did not work - I just felt numb. However, my Elvanse definitely lifts my mood as well as helps me focus and be productive. Ironically, it also (after you've settled on the correct dosage and timing) helps regulate my sleep patterns (which the doctor told me it would).

6. Another issue with ADHD and T2 is the dopamine deficiency and our tendency to crave carbs when it's depleted. I was onboard the low-carb / keto lifestyle years ago during the Adkins diet craze in the early 2000s and I know how to eat that way for good health. BUT - it's not so easy when your brain is craving stimulation and a dopamine hit (read around this on ADDitude and you'll understand the science behind it) and carbs or sugar are a quick way to satisfy that deficiency. My Elvanse also helps regulate my appetite so that in turn helps to control my carb cravings and BG. I tend to fast during the day and eat one meal in the evening although I'm about to try and switch that up by eating my last meal earlier in the day to see if I can get my A1cs down more.

Well done for seeking a diagnosis and for putting yourself out there to learn more. All the best to you. x

 

[Lainey c]

Here is the thing about ADHD medications, both amphetamines and methylphenidates have a tendency to cause vasoconstriction, the amphetamines more than the methylphenidates. I think it is the make up of the drug itself and how they work on norepinephrine, so if your body have a tendency towards vasoconstriction you and your Dr may have to get creative.

That's interesting. I was prescribed (suma)triptan for my migraines from around 2006 and they were also a game changer for me at the time. They are vasoconstrictors - which seems contradictory because constricting blood vessels is what (as I understand it) causes the migraine - but in fact the pain and symptoms that follow the migraine 'event' are actually due to the blood vessel walls going floppy and fluids leaking into the brain cavity (as it was explained to me). Vasoconstrictors make the vessel walls rigid / stable again and treat the migraine symptoms - so perhaps the ADHD meds might also be preventative (I know my BP meds are known preventatives).

 

[Antje77]

Then I figured... There must be more diabetics who happen to have ADHD, haha. Might as well give it a shot, right? Now I'm really glad I did.

This may just be the bestest corner of the interwebs, with many, many absolutely lovely people. <3

I was just thinking, this forum might have more than its fair share of neurospicyness (diagnosed or not), at least among the active long timers.
Think about it: Those are all people who went and wanted to learn absolutely EVERYTHING about their condition, experiment on themselves with non funded equipment, stubbornly followed their own path, often against medical advice, and rattle on and on about their new found obsession. (In a very good way, mind, often to help out those at the start of their journey, or help solve a complex diabetic puzzle an experienced diabetic comes up with.)

While this isn't behaviour exclusively reserved for the neurodivergent, it is strongly associated with it.

 

[Antje77]

Hi @Lainey c , welcome to posting on the forum, and with such an informative post as well!

I'm so sorry to hear about your son.

 

[Lainey c]

Hi @Lainey c , welcome to posting on the forum, and with such an informative post as well!

I'm so sorry to hear about your son.

Thanks @Antje77 His loss left a big hole in our lives.

I agree also with your earlier post that probably there are a lot of ND people on here already - tenacious / creative problem solving is definitely a strength that crops up for a great many of us! Trouble is I easily get lost down a hyper focus rabbit hole for hours reading ALL the very helpful posts on so many different relevant and interesting topics on this forum.

 

[Antje77]

Trouble is I easily get lost down a hyper focus rabbit hole for hours reading ALL the very helpful posts on so many different relevant and interesting topics on this forum.

Same. (And I'm not even ND. Or maybe I am.) Very enjoyable rabbit holes too, and then suddenly it's 4 AM!

 

[Melgar]

Welcome to the forum Lainey c. I am just dashing out the door, but I would like to respond to your post upon my return later.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Also we who do not have ADHD would be enriched by explanations from people who do on how we can make them more comfortable and better understood in a family or social context.

I think it's different for all of us... There are no social situations in which I will ever be comfortable, but that's because the rejection sensitive dysphoria (ADHD) and social awkwardness (Autism) are always ricocheting off one another. Thank you for being open to listening to help others, because neurodivergence does get a bit of a brush-off, quite often.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I am 100% sure my hubby is on the autistic scale and after dealing with two children on the spectrum it dawned on me that hubby could well be. As well as being dyslexic, he has hoarding issues as well as other things. I would like him to be diagnosed but apparently there is such a waiting list and jumping through hoops is one of the categories. I had to wait years to get a mental health diagnosis and my husband doesn't want the fuss lol

The hoop-jumping is extra special, haha. I get the reluctance!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I am sure you looked up Atomoxetine which is sold under the brand name Stratterra in North America, I do recall not being able to get Stratterra in the UK, not even off label. I didn't want to go on stimulants so I focused on alternatives.. Here is the thing about ADHD medications, both amphetamines and methylphenidates have a tendency to cause vasoconstriction, the amphetamines more than the methylphenidates. I think it is the make up of the drug itself and how they work on norepinephrine, so if your body have a tendency towards vasoconstriction you and your Dr may have to get creative. I've settled on Bupropion, which I'm tolerating. ADHD medications makes a big difference that's for sure (If I can remember to take it!) I am also in a family of 'Zappers' too ! My partner and my daughter have been diagnosed with ADHD. I went through 3 days of testing by an ADHD psychologist. I found out I have poor processing skills and poor audio processing skills as well. My mind tunes in and out like a radio station, I can't organize anything to save my life, and at times feel like an out of control ping pong ball. I also obsess. I obsess over my blood sugars, over French grammar, over anything that takes my fancy until it doesn't and then I couldn't give a dam. I cannot regulate my attention. I can watch the same movie over and over extrapolating every tiny detail, the script, the camera work, the director's interpretation and then poof just like that I don't care. I have developed coping strategies, like ritualizing my day to day activities. If i don't I'm disorganized and I feel out of control and then I get anxious and overwhelmed. Oh and I also have a tendency to overshare lol. My mind is a restless hot mess and I cannot prioritize, it all has the same urgency; An overdue bill has the same priority as a weed in the garden. These are the hidden gems ADHD does to your world. And yes I get distracted easily. I wear the same style of clothes day in day out. At one time I had over 300 black tee-shirts. It's a complex disorder. What helped was having the diagnosis. It helped my self esteem, it helped those around me too. The meds definitely help. For me the meds slow my mind right down (Racing mind, slow processing speed go figure). I prewarn people about my disorder. I tell them if I forget your name the moment you tell me don't take it personally. If I glaze over and seem not to be listening it's because I have zoned out and I don't evenm know it!. I am very creative and I think outside the box. Creativity of thought is much sort after ina world harmoginised by social media and the internet in general. I am writing too much lol.

This is... Yeah. If you'd put boxes to tick in that text, I would've ticked a whole mess of them. This whole thread is overwhelming at this point, because it's all stuff people don't usually talk about, a lot of it goes on behind closed doors or just in our minds... It is so very good not to be alone. Not nice that others deal with the same, of course, but... I'm not alone. I'm not! (Insert a whole lot of damp weepy tissues). Thank you so much.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi JoKalsbeek,

I'm a newbie on this site - diagnosed T2 in December 2020 and now take Metformin 1000mg per day. I was then diagnosed with ADHD in January 2021 age 52! I take Elvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) Adult 40mg once per day. It's a long-acting stimulant and it was a revelation! I can completely relate to so much of your story - so here's a few pointers and insights from me in case any might be helpful:

1. All 3 of my children are also ADHD or AuDHD. It was obvious in my teenage son who was eventually diagnosed in 2019 in secondary school but he (we) did not get the help we needed or the meds. It was the tragedy of losing my son in 2020 that led to me seeking a diagnosis. My two adult daughters then more recently sought diagnoses themselves although they are all so different that none of us suspected we might all be ND! Now - although we are still all very different - we fully embrace our ND similarities and quirkyness. We are all still learning about ourselves - my middle daughter (still at uni) was also initially diagnosed with BPD but now takes methylphenidate (I think) along with various antidepressants and mood stabilisers. There is a big overlap between the emotional dysregulation of BPD and RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria) common in ADHD. My eldest daughter is a fully qualified professional (age 31) but currently chooses not to take meds. She is also quite fastidious in controlling her surroundings but acknowledges that is a learnt coping mechanism.

2. I am not able to post a link on this forum but I found the most helpful information from an American website (actually global) ADDitudemagazine dot com. It has vast amounts of information, comment and research articles to help you understand yourself and ways you can both build the 'scaffolding' you need to manage your life and ADHD symptoms and advocate / speak for your needs. There are loads of others though as well.

3. I also suffer migraines and hypertension and take meds for those. However, I think the hypertension meds help prevent migraines as occurrences have reduced significantly since I take BP meds. Whilst monitoring BP is important on ADHD meds, I have not found the ADHD meds raise my BP by very much. My biggest issue for both T2, ADHD and BP is the need to get out / move more / exercise regularly but this a problem as I have a professional job which requires me to sit at a computer for long hours (10+pd) so I'm still working on managing my time to fit exercise in.

4. My ADHD meds don't affect my BG - my last A1c result was 7.9% but that was after a period of not taking my Metformin for several weeks (one of the issues of having ADHD is managing your medication regimes!). Regular exercise and weight management will bring my A1c down and will also help me manage my ADHD symptoms and sleep issues.

5. I also have previously (pre-diagnosis) years ago been prescribed various anti-depressants and found they did not work - I just felt numb. However, my Elvanse definitely lifts my mood as well as helps me focus and be productive. Ironically, it also (after you've settled on the correct dosage and timing) helps regulate my sleep patterns (which the doctor told me it would).

6. Another issue with ADHD and T2 is the dopamine deficiency and our tendency to crave carbs when it's depleted. I was onboard the low-carb / keto lifestyle years ago during the Adkins diet craze in the early 2000s and I know how to eat that way for good health. BUT - it's not so easy when your brain is craving stimulation and a dopamine hit (read around this on ADDitude and you'll understand the science behind it) and carbs or sugar are a quick way to satisfy that deficiency. My Elvanse also helps regulate my appetite so that in turn helps to control my carb cravings and BG. I tend to fast during the day and eat one meal in the evening although I'm about to try and switch that up by eating my last meal earlier in the day to see if I can get my A1cs down more.

Well done for seeking a diagnosis and for putting yourself out there to learn more. All the best to you. x

Hi @Lainey c , and thank you so much for diving into this. First off, sorry about your loss. I keep forgetting that sharing my own suicidal tendencies can be triggering for others, I just throw it out there without thinking because it's very much become part of who I am. I'm sorry if any of this is hurting. (I'm sure it is, actually. I am sorry. And extra grateful for you adding your 2 cents because of it.). Thank you so much for all the information you've given. More to google before my appointment tomorrow, because I do believe your version of amphetamines are on the doc's "menu"... And just reading of others who deal with the same... ADDitude is added to my facebook, and I'll see whether I need to subscribe or something.

All of this, everyone being so open and recognisable and... It's really blowing me away. I can't thank any of you enough.

 

[Antje77]

Also we who do not have ADHD would be enriched by explanations from people who do on how we can make them more comfortable and better understood in a family or social context.

I think it's different for all of us... There are no social situations in which I will ever be comfortable, but that's because the rejection sensitive dysphoria (ADHD) and social awkwardness (Autism) are always ricocheting off one another. Thank you for being open to listening to help others, because neurodivergence does get a bit of a brush-off, quite often.

While it may be different for all, I'm very sure that just reading the posts on this thread is very enlightening, and can go a long way into understanding whow things may work for those with slightly differently wired brains.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

That's interesting. I was prescribed (suma)triptan for my migraines from around 2006 and they were also a game changer for me at the time. They are vasoconstrictors - which seems contradictory because constricting blood vessels is what (as I understand it) causes the migraine - but in fact the pain and symptoms that follow the migraine 'event' are actually due to the blood vessel walls going floppy and fluids leaking into the brain cavity (as it was explained to me). Vasoconstrictors make the vessel walls rigid / stable again and treat the migraine symptoms - so perhaps the ADHD meds might also be preventative (I know my BP meds are known preventatives).

I'm on sumatriptan too, as well as hormone injections to keep the hormonal migraines under control. I am curious to see what happens with my headaches!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I was just thinking, this forum might have more than its fair share of neurospicyness (diagnosed or not), at least among the active long timers.
Think about it: Those are all people who went and wanted to learn absolutely EVERYTHING about their condition, experiment on themselves with non funded equipment, stubbornly followed their own path, often against medical advice, and rattle on and on about their new found obsession. (In a very good way, mind, often to help out those at the start of their journey, or help solve a complex diabetic puzzle an experienced diabetic comes up with.)

While this isn't behaviour exclusively reserved for the neurodivergent, it is strongly associated with it.

Oh ye gods, that would explain so much about the fellow-lifers here!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Same. (And I'm not even ND. Or maybe I am.) Very enjoyable rabbit holes too, and then suddenly it's 4 AM!

Have you seen yourself hyperfocus on Saint Nicholas surprises for your loved ones? Do you really have any doubt there's something going on in there somewhere? Seriously though... ND or not, you're an excellent human being, and a rather understanding one. You've been a big help behind the scenes since all this started, and well before it too, especially when my mom passed. Just had to say it, sorry.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

This'll probably get lost in the thread, but just, you know. Thank you. All of you. For everything.

 

[Lainey c]

Hi @Lainey c , and thank you so much for diving into this. First off, sorry about your loss. I keep forgetting that sharing my own suicidal tendencies can be triggering for others, I just throw it out there without thinking because it's very much become part of who I am. I'm sorry if any of this is hurting. (I'm sure it is, actually. I am sorry. And extra grateful for you adding your 2 cents because of it.). Thank you so much for all the information you've given. More to google before my appointment tomorrow, because I do believe your version of amphetamines are on the doc's "menu"... And just reading of others who deal with the same... ADDitude is added to my facebook, and I'll see whether I need to subscribe or something.

All of this, everyone being so open and recognisable and... It's really blowing me away. I can't thank any of you enough.

Really - nothing to apologise for JoKalsbeek. It hurts all the time but it's so vital that we learn to talk about this stuff in safe spaces.

 

[lessci]

I am 99% sure I have ADHD and my life suddenly makes sense. I was researching it for a girl in my class a couple of years ago and then had a slow dawning realisation that I was reading about myself!
It explains why I can get absorbed completely in things and yet can't cope with the kitchen when it's a mess but equally can't do anything about it.
It explains why my conversations veer off in strange directions and why I am constantly berating myself for talking too much at work.
I'm not going to get diagnosed and I don't need meds to function but the understanding of how my brain works (after 50 years!) Is liberating! I can now explain why I do things to both myself and others!
I'd be interested to know if the meds do affect bg.

You sound like me, the more I read about ADHD the more I see myself. Although when I was a child my GP put me on an exclusion diet (No cows dairy, no caffeine, only blackcurrant squash), and I got horse riding lessons on the NHS at the local riding for the disabled stables for my "hyperactivity". They thought I's grown out of it, I think I just got better at masking

 

[mouseee]

Just wanted to say that this thread has literally made my week!
I love finding more people who think like me and those who don't too!
My last low carb attack at my T2 I realise was successful partly due to my hyperfixation on getting it right and as low as possible. Lockdown and my mums death during that time brought my hyperfixation to a swift end as different things that were easier to manage took over and eating became just what I did to survive.
Thanks @JoKalsbeek for starting this all off!!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Just wanted to say that this thread has literally made my week!
I love finding more people who think like me and those who don't too!
My last low carb attack at my T2 I realise was successful partly due to my hyperfixation on getting it right and as low as possible. Lockdown and my mums death during that time brought my hyperfixation to a swift end as different things that were easier to manage took over and eating became just what I did to survive.
Thanks @JoKalsbeek for starting this all off!!

Uh, my pleasure, I guess? Haha! Glad it's helping more people than just me!