Low carb didn't work for me.

[mine]

its not about slimmng down, its about not being fito.

 

[Jill the tt]

its not about slimmng down, its about not being fito.

what about the new idea of short sharp bursts, it does get i don't know whats for the best, i'm going to was my car now thats my therapy

 

[mine]

what about the new idea of short sharp bursts, it does get i don't know whats for the best, i'm going to was my car now thats my therapy

congrats on your new car.

 

[douglas99]

To me that attitude is going to screw the nhs longterm just like saying "hey, if I need meds, the nhs will pay for them- no worries."

Our nhs is broke... I don't work directly for NHS or any medical company however, I do value them being there and me personally I will do as much as I possibly can to save them money by looking after myself now and in the future. Not just now.

There been so much debate on this particular posting, so I'm not wishing to fuel it further.

We are all individuals. If you (or anybody else) can get sustained ongoing great levels.. Well all brilliant and well done. However, saying there is medication, possibilty of a cure etc.. To me is difficult to comprehend.

I am a type 1 and done all I can to look after my body for 30+ yrs with the disease. It breaks my heart and soul to hear that people can have such a cavalier attitude to their life and medicines. Especially as diabetes is not the only disease in the world. 4/5 of my step bro's n sisters have all had cancer-all due to bad genetics.. None smoked....It truly breaks my heart to hear that people can treat their bodies as whatever may happen, may happen but there's medicines (and cures?) possible..

The NHS is broke...

I don't really know why you see it as that.

I decided I wasn't going to go down the NHS drugs route.
I became a lot more healthy.
I have greatly reduced the medicines the NHS would otherwise be paying for.
Nowadays I am saving them money, I am staying active, so won't be costing them money in the foreseeable future.
So I can't really see why you think I shouldn't have taken this route?

However, I can't predict the future.
None of us can, and as you say, diabetes is not the only disease in the world, I was probably an excellent candidate for a heart attack.
Now, not so likely.

 

[douglas99]

you can't let things like this break your heart, it doesn't change anything it's only you feeling it, i always felt the same about people doing drugs and wasting their lives, but all we can do is live our own, helping those who want the help.
don't you think it's a good thing that Douglas has said this, now any newbie can see it's not as straight forward as improving tolerance in the body but more about not worrying about the future letting the nhs take care of it, from this an informed decision can be made, i am trying to take care of tings and not on meds and will try to stay this way. just take care of you

Again, I can't see now my reduction in meds is a bad thing to the NHS.

 

[douglas99]

Douglas, you know i'm trying to understand not have a fight, you talk about BMI and calories, what about the newish stuff saying BMI will be replaced soon as some very clever people are working on a replacement as they don't believe that is a true measure anymore, and that not all calories are equal, that exercise to balance calories in to balance calories out does not work, i read these things and am trying to make sense of it all, when i found out fat doesn't make you fat it was a big surprise, as this has been pushed since i was very young (low fat i mean).

still it sounds like you are saying live for today and to hell with the future, and you will just rely on Doctors being able to help, please don't get mad just help me understand

I don't read the newish or oldish stuff, and I probably won't read what the clever people write.
I don't need calories to be equal, or better, or worse.
I don't mind if calories in equals calories out or not.
I don't need to know if fat makes me fat or not.
I never needed to know,

All I know is what worked for me, what got me down from XXL to M, what looks ok in the mirror, and reads what I want to on the scales.

As to living for today, I think that was my previous diet, but now I think I have a future back, and it's going to be one I like, and I'm planning for it, and hopefully will be doing a sport I like for many years to come.

 

[douglas99]

...........
The idea of saving the beta cells is a good one.
But I decided I would rather use them now, (and this is a purely personal choice, and mine alone), I can do things now, that maybe I won't be able to do later for other reasons.
Maybe they'll find a cure.
Maybe gene therapy will be the answer.
Maybe I'll completely trash them, and have to inject.
But, for now, I'll dive, and take advantage of my beta cells.
But no matter what, I've made my choice, and hopefully I won't look back and regret it.

At the risk of being even more ego-centric, I'll quote myself, as the post may have been mis-understood.

We were speculating about beta cells recovering, and straining them.
I've been on a reduced diet for 12 months, and I intend to further try the Newcastle diet.
I'm using my beta cells on the presumption they are recovered, not that I'm knocking them down one by one.
Hence 'I would rather use them now', not 'I would rather use them up now'

I also still watch my diet, I monitor my BS, if I start to change in the wrong direction, I'll re-assess my life.

 

[Jill the tt]

I don't read the newish or oldish stuff, and I probably won't read what the clever people write.
I don't need calories to be equal, or better, or worse.
I don't mind if calories in equals calories out or not.
I don't need to know if fat makes me fat or not.
I never needed to know,

All I know is what worked for me, what got me down from XXL to M, what looks ok in the mirror, and reads what I want to on the scales.

As to living for today, I think that was my previous diet, but now I think I have a future back, and it's going to be one I like, and I'm planning for it, and hopefully will be doing a sport I like for many years to come.

thanks for the answers, i understand now that we cannot have an informed discussion as you don't take any new information into consideration, so from what you say you disregard the info and do your own thing, this is confusing for someone newish trying to find their way, you do get misunderstood a lot, it did sound like you didn't care if you trashed the beta cells, don't you think after repairing them they may need a bit more care, you did post a list of food you ate at a bbq, i've never seen anyone eat that much even over all those hrs. A doctor told me once it's more important to be healthy on the inside than the out. have a good day

 

[douglas99]

thanks for the answers, i understand now that we cannot have an informed discussion as you don't take any new information into consideration, so from what you say you disregard the info and do your own thing, this is confusing for someone newish trying to find their way, you do get misunderstood a lot, it did sound like you didn't care if you trashed the beta cells, don't you think after repairing them they may need a bit more care, you did post a list of food you ate at a bbq, i've never seen anyone eat that much even over all those hrs. A doctor told me once it's more important to be healthy on the inside than the out. have a good day

I generally find informed discussions tend to flounder when everyone has different information.
I don't get involved with those any more, I can only speak from experience of what I've done, and what I'm doing.
If any new information proves it should or shouldn't work, it's not doing to alter what has already happened in my case.
I have a diet, with constant medical support, and self checking, all my results are on here, and my beta cells don't seem to be doing badly.
The other advantage with my own diet is it's flexible, a few low calorie days will balance the excess days.
I prefer being healthy on the inside, and the outside and at the moment I seem to be.
If posting an honest blog can be said to confuse people, equally providing restricted information so they only have one direction to go in would seem to be in-appropriate.

(And to be honest, if you've never seen anyone eat that much, you should have met me before.
My insides matched my outsides as well then.)

 

[Jill the tt]

I generally find informed discussions tend to flounder when everyone has different information.
I don't get involved with those any more, I can only speak from experience of what I've done, and what I'm doing.
If any new information proves it should or shouldn't work, it's not doing to alter what has already happened in my case.
I have a diet, with constant medical support, and self checking, all my results are on here, and my beta cells don't seem to be doing badly.
The other advantage with my own diet is it's flexible, a few low calorie days will balance the excess days.
I prefer being healthy on the inside, and the outside and at the moment I seem to be.
If posting an honest blog can be said to confuse people, equally providing restricted information so they only have one direction to go in would seem to be in-appropriate.

(And to be honest, if you've never seen anyone eat that much, you should have met me before.
My insides matched my outsides as well then.)

when you write like this Douglas, you give the full info on what you're doing, you have posted a little cavalier so been difficult to understand, this is a forum open to disscusion, not a true blog which is a bit different. If you never read any new info how can you make informed choices, surely being able to talk and see all kinds of points of view is healthy .

 

[douglas99]

Long day.

All the painting is finished at last.
Next to do is the carpet laying.
I was out today pricing carpet, £6 a square meter, and about 60 square metres. Plus threshold strips, glue, etc.
Should take me a couple of days to put it all down. Never done stairs before, so that should be fun.
It's amazing how long it takes to buy anything.
I must have spent hours today getting smoke alarms, fence panels, skirting boards, choosing carpets, and not actually done much 'real' work.

Back on track on the diet.
Two sausage, rasher of bacon, mushrooms, and a couple of tomatoes. Dry fried, and drained. That was brunch.
A bowl of mince, onion, french beans, cannelloni beans and chickpea, in a sauce with a bit of added chipotle for dinner/supper.
Feeling too tired to do anything else, probably due to getting the carpets I already have up into the loft room.

So tomorrow getting the skirting boards back on, even more emptying and tidying, and several runs to the tip.

I also have to find a plumber to sign off the boiler, and an electrician to sign off the wiring.

But on target for making it liveable in four weeks.

 

[mpe]

Bmi is ok as a guide it's purely weight as a factor of height

BMI was developed for population demographics. It was never intended to be applied to individuals.

 

[douglas99]

BMI was developed for population demographics. It was never intended to be applied to individuals.

My mirror agreed with my BMI. Neither were good.
I'm not saying my BMI is perfect now, but I have rehung the mirror in 'portrait' rather than 'landscape' style.

 

[Brightside]

MPE thanks for this. I was not aware.... Puts it into perspective!

It's one of those measures every is always on about but anyone can shoot holes into it!

 

[douglas99]

Here's an interesting item

http://www.snack-girl.com/snack/why-added-sugar-matters/

I've always followed this website, it's a good balance of low fat, low GI, healthy substitutes for the high fat, high carb diet I used to live on.
(Oven baked kale was a particularly good one, http://www.snack-girl.com/snack/kale-chips-recipe/)

And I think that's hit the nail on the head - added sugar.
I avoid sugar now, but don't always avoid some carbs, so it would be good to see how much is actually the product, and how much is added as an extra.
'For the average American, 16 percent of their total daily calories come from added sugars' that's quite scary, and mine must have been around the same once.

 

[douglas99]

The exercise must have done some good today.
Tested after an hour and a half.

6.6

 

[douglas99]

Up with a reading of 5.7, had the usual ryvita.
Lunch was a re heat of dinner left over from last night.

I'm using paint by the bucketful (literally) so I went to buy yet more yesterday. I'm nearly finished, so don't need a vast amount.
I looked at the emulsion, £24.99 for 15L, the 10L was 30p cheaper.

Fence panels, I need some 3ft high, they were about £18, a 6ft panel for £21 and a few pieces of timber from my stock, and the circular saw, and I 'm wondering how they can justify the extra £15?

So onto today, I've hung the blinds, (one Venetian blind was 3cm too long, about 3/4 hour with the scissors and a hack saw)
Put the fence panels up, nearly completed the skirting board.

Then had a 'Homes under the Hammer' moment.
Two of the neighbours have put their similar style houses up for sale. (I'm sure it's only a coincidence it's after we bought this house).
£110,000, and £120,000.
The hammer fell on this at £70,000, so I'm having a coffee and a couple of ryvita to celebrate!

 

[xyzzy]

So, a diet of Pot Noodle, Instant porridge, cup a soup, toast, maybe fruit, or fish or burger, and chips, if the van by the quayside was open wouldn’t work if my pancreas was permanently asleep until a week next Tuesday.

So, back onto a diet that provided some exercise for my pancreas as well taking care of the rest of me, and one that didn’t induce panic at the thought of white flour by the thimbleful.

Hey Douglas haven't got the time to read all the posts in the thread as like you am doing up my house so some of this maybe out of date. If so apologies.

I get the bit about exercising your pancreas and agree if you low carb and then eat some carbs your bloods will react badly because your pancreas first phase response will dump out insulin based on what you've recently been eating and not based on the meal you've just eaten. If you're at the point where you've lost all the weight and got everything under control then gradually upping your carbs and testing to see what happens is the way to go.

I also agree if you lose loads of insulin resistance by losing excess weight you'll put yourself in a position to likely be able to up your carbs because your insulin resistance is no longer the problem it was.

Some thoughts though

In your case you're already giving your pancreas a workout by taking Stiglapitin as it works indirectly to stimulate your pancreas to produce insulin. In your position I'd look to try and give that up if you're upping carbs as both carbs and Stig maybe working your pancreas harder than you think. Working your pancreas too hard was a major cause of getting T2 in the first place and would appear to be a major cause of why people progress to insulin imo. I'd say keep with the Metformin as that isn't insulin inducing.

Depending on how long and how bad your levels were prior to diagnosis will determine how much beta cell damage you carry. As far as I know no amount of weight loss will repair your beta cells so even if you recover a good amount of function by reducing insulin resistance you may still find you have a maximum amount of carbs you can eat that is significantly less than you could prior to diagnosis. For example I low carbed around the 40 to 75g level for about 18 months after diagnosis then when I'd shifted the insulin resistance I gradually upped my carbs. My maximum is now around 150g a day. If I try to gradually increase above that my BG's rapidily go downhill.

It's probably not good to assume that just because you've shifted a load of insulin resistance and can now eat a goodly amount of carbs that all people are in the same position. Just like all people have different tolerances to carbs at diagnosis those difference continue even many years down the line.

Pot Noodle, Burger, Chips, careful my friend don't throw all the hard work away! Wasn't it those kind of foods that gave you T2 in the first place. The slippery slope awaits ...

Good luck with the house

 

[douglas99]

I was reading another post about averages on my meter, something I never normally look at, so as I just took my BS again, 5.9 as the moment, the 14 day, 21 day, and 28 day are all 6.6, the 60 day is 6.8.
Remarkably consistent.
So despite the high readings recently, I've also had lower readings since, which has brought the average back down. (I wonder if there is any link, it would seem so)
This figure seems about right, as my HbA1c of 35 equates to an average of 6, and bearing in mind, I normally only test post meal, and when I think I could actually be high due to a bad food, or check my fasting level, I would expect my average to be loaded slightly.

 

[douglas99]

Hey Douglas haven't got the time to read all the posts in the thread as like you am doing up my house so some of this maybe out of date. If so apologies.

I get the bit about exercising your pancreas and agree if you low carb and then eat some carbs your bloods will react badly because your pancreas first phase response will dump out insulin based on what you've recently been eating and not based on the meal you've just eaten. If you're at the point where you've lost all the weight and got everything under control then gradually upping your carbs and testing to see what happens is the way to go.

I also agree if you lose loads of insulin resistance by losing excess weight you'll put yourself in a position to likely be able to up your carbs because your insulin resistance is no longer the problem it was.

Some thoughts though

In your case you're already giving your pancreas a workout by taking Stiglapitin as it works indirectly to stimulate your pancreas to produce insulin. In your position I'd look to try and give that up if you're upping carbs as both carbs and Stig maybe working your pancreas harder than you think. Working your pancreas too hard was a major cause of getting T2 in the first place and would appear to be a major cause of why people progress to insulin imo. I'd say keep with the Metformin as that isn't insulin inducing.

Depending on how long and how bad your levels were prior to diagnosis will determine how much beta cell damage you carry. As far as I know no amount of weight loss will repair your beta cells so even if you recover a good amount of function by reducing insulin resistance you may still find you have a maximum amount of carbs you can eat that is significantly less than you could prior to diagnosis. For example I low carbed around the 40 to 75g level for about 18 months after diagnosis then when I'd shifted the insulin resistance I gradually upped my carbs. My maximum is now around 150g a day. If I try to gradually increase above that my BG's rapidily go downhill.

It's probably not good to assume that just because you've shifted a load of insulin resistance and can now eat a goodly amount of carbs that all people are in the same position. Just like all people have different tolerances to carbs at diagnosis those difference continue even many years down the line.

Pot Noodle, Burger, Chips, careful my friend don't throw all the hard work away! Wasn't it those kind of foods that gave you T2 in the first place. The slippery slope awaits ...

Good luck with the house

Thanks for the comments.

I cut the dose of Sitagliptin to a half dose quite a while ago, and my Metformin has just been cut to 500mg. I'm going to give it 3 months then if my HbA1c is still ok, stop the Sitagliptin,

I still calorie count, I still get on the scales every day, and above all, I'll still eat fresh food, salads, veg, home made low GI meals where ever possible.
But, there are times when it's simply not possible, so for one meal, a Pot Noodle, or a burger, or chips don't seem to spike me, if I eat the low GI diet, and keep a reasonable amount of carbs going in normally. I don't count carbs, but I still limit my food intake for the day.
Diving is quite a high energy sport, so I can normally get away with a few extra calories, but I do tend to re-dress the balance later anyway, with a few salads.
I find I need the balance between diet and lifestyle, and losing the ability to react to carbs wouldn't give me that balance.
Oddly enough I don't particularly like junk food anymore, so it is maintenance food to keep me alive when I need it.
I don't get 'carb munchies' so it's quite easy to only eat the calories I need, and put the rest down again.
Probably result of 18 months calorie control.
If I can eat my usual food, I will.But I do't worry too much if I need to eat differently. Obviously, healthy 'normal' food is preferable to junk food, and low GI is preferable to that.
As my opening post though, my last HbA1c was after a particularly 'bad' period of diet, and was still a respectable result.
My Feb HbA1c will be interesting, after the decrease in meds, with (a low GI) christmas in the mix.