Low carb didn't work for me.

[Kat100]

How nasty was that whoever they were should be very ashamed of theirselves that is not what you expect from a forum just because you do a different diet to theirs We should all be able to say what we do and be respected for that Hopefully it will now get better on here and we will not be afraid to speak about our diets if they happen to be different to LCHF

Yes everyone had a right to speak up ...without being put down for it of course ....

 

[douglas99]

And to get back onto me

Second job of the day out of the way, running cables in someone's dark, dusty, insulation filled loft. (Putting earths on light fittings).
Just out to do one more, then off to the house for a couple of days, general painting still, and get the skirting boards on.

 

[Kat100]

The distinction between "pre-diabetes" and "T2" is rather arbitrary anyway.
There are also a number of other situations which might be more usefully described that way.

I was pre diabetic then I was not , then I was normal ...on it went for years ....now I am type 2 but that could change ....type 1 in my family ...

 

[Jill the tt]

The short answer is no, I can't explain it.
Maybe the weight loss I had helped enough with my insulin resistance to let the remaining cells cope.
Maybe they rested and recovered
Maybe it was something else.
I got fed up of reading different studies that showed everyone was right, or everyone was wrong.
I got fed up with the arguments.
I had a meter, I ate a calorie restricted diet to lose weight and watched the meter.
I got to my target weight, on food that suited me.
I then needed to find a maintenance diet, I always said I'd probably increase the fats, so I tried higher fats, and kept the carbs purposely low. I was only on 200g of carbs and protein before, so it wasn't hard merely to add fat, and up the protein a bit more.
I found if I did eat any high carb meal, I spiked, even on stuff I was normally good with.
So, for the lifestyle I wanted, low carb didn't work for me.

I added carbs back, and found I became more tolerant in general after that.
It seems to be a common theme though.
If you LCHF, you should always re-introduce some carbs before a GTT test for example.

I'm not evangelical, I've never said any one else should try it, I wouldn't ever advise my diet is the one anyone should be on, everyone should find a diet that suits them.
I'm telling what happened to me, no one has to even read it.
But then, no one should try to stop it being told really either.

thanks for the reply, i've heard that the cells can repair,in 7 months i've now lost 21/2 stone and come down from 13.? to pre diabetic but still very sensitive to so many things fruit especially. you have done well to control things to suit you, can a say with all respect, i would have found the title of this thread very confusing when first here, i wouldn't have asked questions (that would have been my fault) i would have tied myself up in knotes trying to eat and drink as you do, i always question every thing and wouldn't have found answers. i think many newbies will misunderstand and see so many good people getting quite uptight some just using it as a place to *****.

i'm really pleased for you and glad you have a happy life

 

[Kat100]

And to get back onto me

Second job of the day out of the way, running cables in someone's dark, dusty, insulation filled loft. (Putting earths on light fittings).
Just out to do one more, then off to the house for a couple of days, general painting still, and get the skirting boards on.

Now I have a list of house things that need doing ..... dont want you getting bored .....

 

[AndBreathe]

thanks for the reply, i've heard that the cells can repair,in 7 months i've now lost 21/2 stone and come down from 13.? to pre diabetic but still very sensitive to so many things fruit especially. you have done well to control things to suit you, can a say with all respect, i would have found the title of this thread very confusing when first here, i wouldn't have asked questions (that would have been my fault) i would have tied myself up in knotes trying to eat and drink as you do, i always question every thing and wouldn't have found answers. i think many newbies will misunderstand and see so many good people getting quite uptight some just using it as a place to *****.

i'm really pleased for you and glad you have a happy life

Jill - I know you asked Douglas, but I believe it's healthy to exercise both my pancreas and liver. From fairly early on, I was keen to exercise my liver, and once my levels moderated to non-diabetic levels, I have been exercising my pancreas a bit more. Having been a reduced carber, I have always exercised my pancreas, a bit.

For me, once I started testing, and understanding the feedback I was getting from it, I knew I was periodically experiencing liver dump. Whilst it didn't always feel that great, if I went a bit low, and felt really hungry, I didn't go for anything particularly carby to deal with it. I would have a cup of tea, with milk (and therefore some carb), just to nudge me up a bit. It felt it had to make sense to encourage my liver to cycle its glycogen stocks and refresh them every now and then. Doing this, over time, I realised that the liver dumps were less extreme. Initially, I was rising 0.8, and these days it's only 0.3-ish.

Moving forward, I've just applied a similar approach with my pancreas. The science suggests some of our ability to deal with carbs is training, as supported by the need to eat c130g carbs a day prior to a GTT. Low carbers allegedly can do do less well in GTTs, simply because they are not so used to eating carb. It's almost like the pancreas is a naturally lazy organ, and reacts to stimulus about a day after eating. I've put that very badly, but if I have a period where I am lower carb than my usual, for whatever reason, the first time I have carbs after that my post-prandials will be slightly higher than if I repeat the exercise next day. So, it's like my pancreas is caught on the hop first time around, but more ready for it on the second occasion. I don't know if you have seen my type "use it or lose it", but this is where I get that from.

Clearly reintroducing carbs is a personal choice, which for me has been partly driven by the need to stop losing weight, and the prospect of more fat didn't appeal. I tested very diligently as I was doing this, to ensure I wasn't really over stepping the line. I think I am very lucky to be able to eat as I do. I appreciate not everyone can. I'm not as bold are Andrew or Douglas, but I am bolder than many, and during the most recent period of increasing both the quantity and variety of carbs my HbA1c has gone from 34 to 32. Perhaps counter-intuitive, but I'll roll with that particular punch! I must admit I was a little bit nervy this time around, just in case I'd been having significant highs I wasn't recording.

I don't know if that helps you at all, but if you would like to know anything else, just ask.

 

[Brunneria]

thanks for the reply, i've heard that the cells can repair,in 7 months i've now lost 21/2 stone and come down from 13.? to pre diabetic but still very sensitive to so many things fruit especially. you have done well to control things to suit you, can a say with all respect, i would have found the title of this thread very confusing when first here, i wouldn't have asked questions (that would have been my fault) i would have tied myself up in knotes trying to eat and drink as you do, i always question every thing and wouldn't have found answers. i think many newbies will misunderstand and see so many good people getting quite uptight some just using it as a place to *****.

i'm really pleased for you and glad you have a happy life

Hi,

I googled 'beta cell regeneration' a while back, and found some very interesting info.

It is one of the reasons I aim keep to under 50g carbs a day. I figure that my beta cells have been put through enough, and are due some R & R.

 

[Jill the tt]

Jill - I know you asked Douglas, but I believe it's healthy to exercise both my pancreas and liver. From fairly early on, I was keen to exercise my liver, and once my levels moderated to non-diabetic levels, I have been exercising my pancreas a bit more. Having been a reduced carber, I have always exercised my pancreas, a bit.

For me, once I started testing, and understanding the feedback I was getting from it, I knew I was periodically experiencing liver dump. Whilst it didn't always feel that great, if I went a bit low, and felt really hungry, I didn't go for anything particularly carby to deal with it. I would have a cup of tea, with milk (and therefore some carb), just to nudge me up a bit. It felt it had to make sense to encourage my liver to cycle its glycogen stocks and refresh them every now and then. Doing this, over time, I realised that the liver dumps were less extreme. Initially, I was rising 0.8, and these days it's only 0.3-ish.

Moving forward, I've just applied a similar approach with my pancreas. The science suggests some of our ability to deal with carbs is training, as supported by the need to eat c130g carbs a day prior to a GTT. Low carbers allegedly can do do less well in GTTs, simply because they are not so used to eating carb. It's almost like the pancreas is a naturally lazy organ, and reacts to stimulus about a day after eating. I've put that very badly, but if I have a period where I am lower carb than my usual, for whatever reason, the first time I have carbs after that my post-prandials will be slightly higher than if I repeat the exercise next day. So, it's like my pancreas is caught on the hop first time around, but more ready for it on the second occasion. I don't know if you have seen my type "use it or lose it", but this is where I get that from.

Clearly reintroducing carbs is a personal choice, which for me has been partly driven by the need to stop losing weight, and the prospect of more fat didn't appeal. I tested very diligently as I was doing this, to ensure I wasn't really over stepping the line. I think I am very lucky to be able to eat as I do. I appreciate not everyone can. I'm not as bold are Andrew or Douglas, but I am bolder than many, and during the most recent period of increasing both the quantity and variety of carbs my HbA1c has gone from 34 to 32. Perhaps counter-intuitive, but I'll roll with that particular punch! I must admit I was a little bit nervy this time around, just in case I'd been having significant highs I wasn't recording.

I don't know if that helps you at all, but if you would like to know anything else, just ask.

hi thanks for explaining, i look at all info and make the best call for me that i can. i don't know what a GTT is, i've been trying to keep under 60 g carbs a day, when i ate porridge my numbers just kept climbing even worse with fruit (4 strawberries) so i worried about losing cells and thought better to let them have time to hopefully heal, also stay of meds. at least now i understand what you're doing and will keep it in mind

 

[AndBreathe]

hi thanks for explaining, i look at all info and make the best call for me that i can. i don't know what a GTT is, i've been trying to keep under 60 g carbs a day, when i ate porridge my numbers just kept climbing even worse with fruit (4 strawberries) so i worried about losing cells and thought better to let them have time to hopefully heal, also stay of meds. at least now i understand what you're doing and will keep it in mind

GTT = Glucose Tolerance Test. That's the test whereby from a fasting start, the subject drinks a glucose drink, then remains sedentary for a couple of hours, during which time blood scores are recorded periodically. It aids understanding into the subject's ability to handle glucose, both almost immediately and over a couple of hours, or longer.

Jill - I think you're right to give your pancreas a decent rest before experimenting too much, but if you decide to try expanding your diet a little, please do remember what I said about the first exposure not necessarily being truly representative, in terms of your body's ability to synthesis the carb.

I'm not trying to encourage you to modify your diet, but most people become a bit curious, sooner or later, from what I have observed.

 

[Jill the tt]

Hi,

I googled 'beta cell regeneration' a while back, and found some very interesting info.

It is one of the reasons I aim keep to under 50g carbs a day. I figure that my beta cells have been put through enough, and are due some R & R.

hi thanks, to be honest that's what i thought i was doing, trying to take a load off , i can understand the thinking behind increase of carbs, it's a matter of if the body can cope, i don't want to slip back to higher numbers and maybe do harm to myself and not be able to recover again, so far eating out has been no problem, so i have to do whats best for me, it gets confusing when reading different things it's quite scary when i get afraid i say stupid things, which makes me nervous to post, as i may just blurt and be misunderstood, i don't want to challenge i just want to understand and make an informed decision

 

[Jill the tt]

GTT = Glucose Tolerance Test. That's the test whereby from a fasting start, the subject drinks a glucose drink, then remains sedentary for a couple of hours, during which time blood scores are recorded periodically. It aids understanding into the subject's ability to handle glucose, both almost immediately and over a couple of hours, or longer.

Jill - I think you're right to give your pancreas a decent rest before experimenting too much, but if you decide to try expanding your diet a little, please do remember what I said about the first exposure not necessarily being truly representative, in terms of your body's ability to synthesis the carb.

I'm not trying to encourage you to modify your diet, but most people become a bit curious, sooner or later, from what I have observed.

ok thanks this has been very helpful, i had a GTT some years ago and was ok then, would i ever be given one again? if so why? i don't think it wise to try out new things yet, i want to lose a couple more stone and don't want to risk anything going wrong, it's been nice to have it explained and have the chance to understand, i know you're not telling me to do it just giving the information for me to use as i feel fit thank you very much

 

[Brunneria]

hi thanks, to be honest that's what i thought i was doing, trying to take a load off , i can understand the thinking behind increase of carbs, it's a matter of if the body can cope, i don't want to slip back to higher numbers and maybe do harm to myself and not be able to recover again, so far eating out has been no problem, so i have to do whats best for me, it gets confusing when reading different things it's quite scary when i get afraid i say stupid things, which makes me nervous to post, as i may just blurt and be misunderstood, i don't want to challenge i just want to understand and make an informed decision

I agree with going for what the body can cope with - and I'm trying to play a long game.

There is so much type 2 in my family, and I am the youngest so far (I have a few other contributing factors). I figure if I, at 45 became diabetic, when my father, grandfather and uncle made it to 80s, 70s and 60s respectively, then I need to be gentle with myself. Pace myself. Coddle those beta cells. Room service. Woolly socks. Holidays...

As I say, playing a long game.

 

[Jill the tt]

I agree with going for what the body can cope with - and I'm trying to play a long game.

There is so much type 2 in my family, and I am the youngest so far (I have a few other contributing factors). I figure if I, at 45 became diabetic, when my father, grandfather and uncle made it to 80s, 70s and 60s respectively, then I need to be gentle with myself. Pace myself. Coddle those beta cells. Room service. Woolly socks. Holidays...

As I say, playing a long game.

it's a good plan, thanks and all the best

 

[douglas99]

I agree with everything said.
I was diagnosed three years ago, and it took until easter 2013 to find a way forward from being diagnosed. That was about 18 months, so a lot of floundering about. It took a year on a calorie restricted diet to get my weight down to where I wanted it, and then 3 months of trial and error to get to my posts today.
So for that year I concentrated on my weight, and my BS, and I'm now at the stage where I can experiment again.
I'm not in a rush to get anywhere, I'm just bimbling on in my own direction, but also letting others know it's there as well, if maybe you want to plan ahead.

The idea of saving the beta cells is a good one.
But I decided I would rather use them now, (and this is a purely personal choice, and mine alone), I can do things now, that maybe I won't be able to do later for other reasons.
Maybe they'll find a cure.
Maybe gene therapy will be the answer.
Maybe I'll completely trash them, and have to inject.
But, for now, I'll dive, and take advantage of my beta cells.
But no matter what, I've made my choice, and hopefully I won't look back and regret it.

 

[donnellysdogs]

To me that attitude is going to screw the nhs longterm just like saying "hey, if I need meds, the nhs will pay for them- no worries."

Our nhs is broke... I don't work directly for NHS or any medical company however, I do value them being there and me personally I will do as much as I possibly can to save them money by looking after myself now and in the future. Not just now.

There been so much debate on this particular posting, so I'm not wishing to fuel it further.

We are all individuals. If you (or anybody else) can get sustained ongoing great levels.. Well all brilliant and well done. However, saying there is medication, possibilty of a cure etc.. To me is difficult to comprehend.

I am a type 1 and done all I can to look after my body for 30+ yrs with the disease. It breaks my heart and soul to hear that people can have such a cavalier attitude to their life and medicines. Especially as diabetes is not the only disease in the world. 4/5 of my step bro's n sisters have all had cancer-all due to bad genetics.. None smoked....It truly breaks my heart to hear that people can treat their bodies as whatever may happen, may happen but there's medicines (and cures?) possible..

The NHS is broke...

 

[Brightside]

@ Satin doll
if your dr is telling you to put off your hip surgery at 65 he is an ****....what does he want you to be 75 with all kinds of other issues that will Prevent surgery?
A distinguished ortho pod told the story at a congress I attended 10 yrs ago....a 9 yr old with bilateral hip displasia (******** hips to the layman) in a wheel chair said to him....doc I want you to give me new hips.....

His response was....my girl you don't understand....you are too young! If I give you new hips they will last 10-15 yrs....then you will be 25 and you will need your first hip revision....revisions last say 10 yrs....then you will be 35....we may be able to do a second revision....which may take you to 45.... But then, what then?....you will be in a wheel chair....

She replied....but doctor, I'm already in a wheel chair!

Powerfull stuff but what he was trying to say, is it's about quality of life today....medicine is moving so fast and who knows what technology will be available in 10 yrs....hip surgery has come on in leaps and bounds and with modern un cemented hips 15 yrs is becoming common

Who knows with new hips you may even get the exercise your body needs to beat the disease! Don't be fobbed off! People are getting hips at 40 these days!

 

[Brightside]

@ Douglas well done bud and soo happy to see you have a new passion ie diving!

I too have had a similar experience....thirst in January and diagnosed in April bg 19!

Lost about 20 kg 3 stone....off the meds and fasting bg under 7!

Have taken up cycling which I. Believe makes a big difference ie the combination of....

No more whiskey and ginger ale, energy drinks etc
Losing weight simply by calorie counting
Return to fitness


Need to lose another 10 Kgs to reach my target so am joining team bg on a 1000 mile ride through the alps in two weeks http://www.mhealthgrandtour.com


The problem is we eat and drink too much and move too little (as a society I mean)

 

[Jill the tt]

I agree with everything said.
I was diagnosed three years ago, and it took until easter 2013 to find a way forward from being diagnosed. That was about 18 months, so a lot of floundering about. It took a year on a calorie restricted diet to get my weight down to where I wanted it, and then 3 months of trial and error to get to my posts today.
So for that year I concentrated on my weight, and my BS, and I'm now at the stage where I can experiment again.
I'm not in a rush to get anywhere, I'm just bimbling on in my own direction, but also letting others know it's there as well, if maybe you want to plan ahead.

The idea of saving the beta cells is a good one.
But I decided I would rather use them now, (and this is a purely personal choice, and mine alone), I can do things now, that maybe I won't be able to do later for other reasons.
Maybe they'll find a cure.
Maybe gene therapy will be the answer.
Maybe I'll completely trash them, and have to inject.
But, for now, I'll dive, and take advantage of my beta cells.
But no matter what, I've made my choice, and hopefully I won't look back and regret it.

Douglas, you know i'm trying to understand not have a fight, you talk about BMI and calories, what about the newish stuff saying BMI will be replaced soon as some very clever people are working on a replacement as they don't believe that is a true measure anymore, and that not all calories are equal, that exercise to balance calories in to balance calories out does not work, i read these things and am trying to make sense of it all, when i found out fat doesn't make you fat it was a big surprise, as this has been pushed since i was very young (low fat i mean).

still it sounds like you are saying live for today and to hell with the future, and you will just rely on Doctors being able to help, please don't get mad just help me understand

 

[Jill the tt]

To me that attitude is going to screw the nhs longterm just like saying "hey, if I need meds, the nhs will pay for them- no worries."

Our nhs is broke... I don't work directly for NHS or any medical company however, I do value them being there and me personally I will do as much as I possibly can to save them money by looking after myself now and in the future. Not just now.

There been so much debate on this particular posting, so I'm not wishing to fuel it further.

We are all individuals. If you (or anybody else) can get sustained ongoing great levels.. Well all brilliant and well done. However, saying there is medication, possibilty of a cure etc.. To me is difficult to comprehend.

I am a type 1 and done all I can to look after my body for 30+ yrs with the disease. It breaks my heart and soul to hear that people can have such a cavalier attitude to their life and medicines. Especially as diabetes is not the only disease in the world. 4/5 of my step bro's n sisters have all had cancer-all due to bad genetics.. None smoked....It truly breaks my heart to hear that people can treat their bodies as whatever may happen, may happen but there's medicines (and cures?) possible..

The NHS is broke...

you can't let things like this break your heart, it doesn't change anything it's only you feeling it, i always felt the same about people doing drugs and wasting their lives, but all we can do is live our own, helping those who want the help.
don't you think it's a good thing that Douglas has said this, now any newbie can see it's not as straight forward as improving tolerance in the body but more about not worrying about the future letting the nhs take care of it, from this an informed decision can be made, i am trying to take care of tings and not on meds and will try to stay this way. just take care of you

 

[Brightside]

Bmi is ok as a guide it's purely weight as a factor of height

It falls down when people are heavy due to muscle or bones.

I remember a few years ago when the nhs (some trusts) in their infinite wisdom were not allowing patients with a BMi of over 30 or wAs it 35 to have hip replacements.

A reporter went and weighed a local rugby team! They were all fit and healthy no fat all muscle and half the team would have been disallowed hip surgery.

So BMi needs to be taken with a pinch of salt!

Of course if your a normal fat ******* like me then a BMi of 31 is not good, but will I strive for 85kg (what BMi says I should be) no way.... I haven't been that since the age of 17 when I was like a spider ..... All legs and arms and no body.