Diabetes cured

[Sid Bonkers]

I read the Professor Tayors link where he said the diet was done for 8 weeks People had lost loads of weight on this diet and some here said their diabetes had been reversed

I think that reversed means that they are no longer getting bg levels in the diabetic range, however that does not mean theyre cured it just means that by losing the weight and along with it the lions share of their insulin resistance some are now getting regular readings under the diabetic range limit.

What it doesnt mean is that they no longer have diabetes and should their eating regime return to their pre diagnosis pattern their diabetes will return which is why a maintenance diet it so important after weight loss.

I have not had an HbA1c higher than 5.6% for the last 5 years but I am still diabetic, just a well controlled diabetic like lots of others.

 

[zand]

I think that reversed means that they are no longer getting bg levels in the diabetic range, however that does not mean theyre cured it just means that by losing the weight and along with it the lions share of their insulin resistance some are now getting regular readings under the diabetic range limit.

What it doesnt mean is that they no longer have diabetes and should their eating regime return to their pre diagnosis pattern their diabetes will return which is why a maintenance diet it so important after weight loss.

I have not had an HbA1c higher than 5.6% for the last 5 years but I am still diabetic, just a well controlled diabetic like lots of others.

For most people this is true. Most people merely reverse their diabetes. However one person on this thread has remained diabetes free despite having consumed probably more carbs than I ever did to start with. To me that is a cure. Rare, but a cure brought about by following the Newcastle diet.

 

[Pipp]

Not getting drawn into this game of semantics.

I fear that anyone new to forum, who particularly needs our consideration will be more confused than I am by all the opinions.

I prefer to base my opinions on evidence, and for me, the evidence is that I followed the Newcastle method, without once deviating from the methodology, and have since had non-diabetic blood glucose for over three years, despite having still to lose weight, and despite being very very foolish recently in the sort of carbs and the quantity of carbs I consumed.

So, I will carry on believing I have had success in 'reversing' my T2 for now. What others want to believe is their prerogative.

Anyone new to forum reading this, or if you are not so new, but do not yet post, please do not allow negative posts to put you off. There are more people here who want to help and encourage than there are people who are narrow minded and egotistical.

 

[MCMLXXIII]

I follow a plant based diet and avoid processed foods.
Med free and good cholesterol for a year now.
So whilst I am a type 2 Diabetic. I would say I regard it as in remission.

 

[AndBreathe]

As @AndBreathe says, there is little point being able to eat carbs, if medication is keeping them in check, hence as I keep saying, I have a phased reduction planned, and should be off the Sitagliptin entirely at the next review, Maybe cutting entirely is seen to be better for some, we decided to cut meds slowly, and review every three months.

'That you find yourself "forced" to eat pot noodle or pasties when, by your own example, out diving is merely a lack of consideration for your own well-being'
I scuba dive, I am thinking of learning to ski, one of my daughters dives with me, the other like skydiving. Lots of things can be a lack of consideration for our own well being.

I don't really see a low GI/GL diet as a carb fest, I see it as I diet that suits me, allows me to reduce my meds, with the aim to be off them entirely, and still keep my blood within a normal range. But also keeps my options open.

@Pipp
As to the newcastle diet, as you yourself said, what is there to lose by it?
I'm not entirely back into the normal range, unless I do watch what I eat.

That doesn't mean I will switch back to a diet that got me into trouble, I like my diet now. My previous eating pattern is gone forever.
I like fresh food, I like cooking, I cook low GI, I eat a controlled amount. I can't see it changing.
Even after my chinese pig out, I made up for it in calories the next day.
But I would to have the option of a pot noodle, and not then swim for an hour under 25m of water, in a dry suit at 9C knowing I have normal BS either way.

I'm sorry Douglas, I'm not following your logic here at all. Had you waited until you had discontinued meds to experiment to the extent you have, I could have understood. I'm no low-carb zealout, and have worked out a way of eating that seems to work for me. But, for now, if I'm completely honest, I'm seeing a bit of diabetes metaphorical willy waving, which doesn't seem attractive to me, and I don't want to be drawn into that activity.

I wish you well, but I don't think I have anything further to add to this thread.

I don't think I need to say anything further on this thread.

 

[douglas99]

Not getting drawn into this game of semantics.

I fear that anyone new to forum, who particularly needs our consideration will be more confused than I am by all the opinions.

I prefer to base my opinions on evidence, and for me, the evidence is that I followed the Newcastle method, without once deviating from the methodology, and have since had non-diabetic blood glucose for over three years, despite having still to lose weight, and despite being very very foolish recently in the sort of carbs and the quantity of carbs I consumed.

So, I will carry on believing I have had success in 'reversing' my T2 for now. What others want to believe is their prerogative.

Anyone new to forum reading this, or if you are not so new, but do not yet post, please do not allow negative posts to put you off. There are more people here who want to help and encourage than there are people who are narrow minded and egotistical.

That, or rather you, is the reason I want to try it.
I didn't follow the methodology, and I haven't quite got there.
So I want to give a shot, simply because it's something I've not tried.
No other reason really.

 

[Pipp]

That, or rather you, is the reason I want to try it.
I didn't follow the methodology, and I haven't quite got there.
So I want to give a shot, simply because it's something I've not tried.
No other reason really.

Ok douglas99. What I don't understand is why you are waiting? Newcastle diet requisites are just as easy, if not easier to take on your diving trips as pot noodles and such. So, what is stopping you?

 

[douglas99]

I'm sorry Douglas, I'm not following your logic here at all. Had you waited until you had discontinued meds to experiment to the extent you have, I could have understood. I'm no low-carb zealout, and have worked out a way of eating that seems to work for me. But, for now, if I'm completely honest, I'm seeing a bit of diabetes metaphorical willy waving, which doesn't seem attractive to me, and I don't want to be drawn into that activity.

I wish you well, but I don't think I have anything further to add to this thread.

I don't think I need to say anything further on this thread.

Depends really on whether you want to know on an 'all on nothing', or whether you want to know if there is a point where the meds are needs, or the carbs should be lowered. I'm happy to reduce meds every three months, and raise the carbs each time I reduce. Although to be fair, I'm more than happy wiith the amount I eat know, so I won't be eating more.
Maybe you would have preferred to drop all the meds, and then increase carbs until you started to raise BS again, we decided to balance one against the other. I must admit I can't really see the difference.

 

[Pipp]

I'm sorry Douglas, I'm not following your logic here at all. Had you waited until you had discontinued meds to experiment to the extent you have, I could have understood. I'm no low-carb zealout, and have worked out a way of eating that seems to work for me. But, for now, if I'm completely honest, I'm seeing a bit of diabetes metaphorical willy waving, which doesn't seem attractive to me, and I don't want to be drawn into that activity.

I wish you well, but I don't think I have anything further to add to this thread.

I don't think I need to say anything further on this thread.

I agree, and a bit disadvantaged in the willy waving contest, being female I do not have the necessary appendage to join in. So will sit back and observe until something sensible is said.

 

[douglas99]

Ok douglas99. What I don't understand is why you are waiting? Newcastle diet requisites are just as easy, if not easier to take on your diving trips as pot noodles and such. So, what is stopping you?

Just the time.
I'm currently away from home, renovating a house which has to be finished by Thursday.
I've been doing it, and working over summer.
I don't know really how the Newcastle diet will affect my energy levels, some days have been 8 to 8 of fairly hard labour, 7 days a week.
I then have two days diving booked for mid october, same applies, it'll be a fairly energy intensive couple of days, estimate is around 4000 calories burnt per day.
Diving takes a lot energy, and being tired and inattentive on the second or third dive of the day is possibly fatal.
So I just didn't think I could commit to it yet.
But after that, I have the run up to christmas when I can be fairly relaxed, and plan around whatever the results are.
Also I'm back home, so I can see the doctor if I need to, for any blood tests.

 

[cold ethyl]

Unless I am being really stupid, call it what you will, reversal, cure or whatever, if you have been diagnosed as a diabetic , there has been substantial loss of pancreatic function which cannot be regained. So weight loss may reduce insulin resistance and allow one to eat higher levels of carbs , but I'd assume that as time passes BS will rise again as remaining pancreatic function declines with age. I am not comfortable myself with calling the Newcastle diet a cure as cure implies not having an illness any more ... Even when maintaining non-diabetic blood ranges, we are well controlled diabetics not non- diabetics. Sadly to be diagnosed we crossed a line that I don't think we can ever uncross. That's not to say that I don't think that a rapid weight loss can't reverse our insulin resistance for now and give us those non- diabetic BS levels as long as we keep the weight off and don't push the carb envelope to extremes.

 

[jack412]

It's like a T1 taking insulin, then saying he's cured because he can eat a batch of carbs

 

[douglas99]

It's like a T1 taking insulin, then saying he's cured because he can eat a batch of carbs

Can't argue with that.
If you decrease your insulin resistance enough, and still produce enough insulin, is would indeed seem similar. Without actually taking the insulin for T2 of course.

 

[Pipp]

Unless I am being really stupid, call it what you will, reversal, cure or whatever, if you have been diagnosed as a diabetic , there has been substantial loss of pancreatic function which cannot be regained. So weight loss may reduce insulin resistance and allow one to eat higher levels of carbs , but I'd assume that as time passes BS will rise again as remaining pancreatic function declines with age. I am not comfortable myself with calling the Newcastle diet a cure as cure implies not having an illness any more ... Even when maintaining non-diabetic blood ranges, we are well controlled diabetics not non- diabetics. Sadly to be diagnosed we crossed a line that I don't think we can ever uncross. That's not to say that I don't think that a rapid weight loss can't reverse our insulin resistance for now and give us those non- diabetic BS levels as long as we keep the weight off and don't push the carb envelope to extremes.

But how do we know that pancreatic function cannot be regained?

 

[Pipp]

Just the time.
I'm currently away from home, renovating a house which has to be finished by Thursday.
I've been doing it, and working over summer.
I don't know really how the Newcastle diet will affect my energy levels, some days have been 8 to 8 of fairly hard labour, 7 days a week.
I then have two days diving booked for mid october, same applies, it'll be a fairly energy intensive couple of days, estimate is around 4000 calories burnt per day.
Diving takes a lot energy, and being tired and inattentive on the second or third dive of the day is possibly fatal.
So I just didn't think I could commit to it yet.
But after that, I have the run up to christmas when I can be fairly relaxed, and plan around whatever the results are.
Also I'm back home, so I can see the doctor if I need to, for any blood tests.

I found my energy levels increased when on Newcastle diet.

 

[andcol]

Just read this thread and umm not another reversal/cured discussion... Did think about just ignoring it, but I'm a sucker so here goes...

@douglas99 If you are going to do it just do it... I didnt find I was short of energy and I was off all meds within the month and doing a lot of exercise every day. You have enough reserves and that is what you need to burn. I am with the others - whilst you are soaking up the meds and pushing the carbs you aren't proving anything to yourself except that you can live fairly normally for now (hope it continues for you for a long time to come) and that may be all that you need for now and good for you and there is nothing wrong with low GI

@cold ethyl and @Sid Bonkers following your logics I would say that you aren't cured of a cold just controlling the virus... is that an appropriate statement. For your information I eat what I did before now and have done so for some time and my last HbA1c is lower than the previous ones! So what does that mean? I am not low carbing or low GI'ing, not on medication (in fact that only lasted for a month from diagnosis) any more, not on a special diet. I eat turkish delight, licorice, sweets and I don't get raised numbers unless I really over do it when I reach 9's for a little period and then back down again.

My GP actually said that if I remain the same for the next 2 years I will be taken off the register as that is what they do for gastric band patients. Monitor for 3 years from the operation.

Whether you wish to call it reversed/cured/in remission I don't care; but well controlled, nah, as that would imply doing something special.

So please no more nay saying some of us are lucky enough to have caught it at the right time and turned around our condition to such an extent that we do not suffer from the symptoms of diabetes in any of its forms. We are the lucky ones and I know it rankles some feathers (sorry for that) but we should be shouting from the tree tops for people to try it on diagnosis as it is 2 months for the rest of their life’s and what have they got to lose.

 

[zand]

@douglas99 @jack412 @cold ethyl Well one of you had better tell Professor Taylor this then. The Newcastle diet is not a cure - just doing the same job as metformin. It will save him wasting any more time. Still not quite sure how Pipp managed to have an extended carb fest whilst still being 5+ stones overweight yet kept non-diabetic BG's though. My own diabetes has not been reversed/cured but I'm willing to believe someone else's has, yet I would usually call myself a cynic.

 

[andcol]

But how do we know that pancreatic function cannot be regained?

In fact there is recent evidence that it can

 

[catherinecherub]

You might like to read this article.

http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/Blog/David-Spero/can-beta-cells-be-healed/

 

[AndBreathe]

But how do we know that pancreatic function cannot be regained?

Awwww, Pipp. I was doing so well, being out of it for a full how many moments?

To be honest, I'm not sure I've lost much pancreatic function, if any, but then I also know I'm too chicken to actually test it out in the big, bad world. I have considered a C-Peptide test, privately funded, I expect.

As I trimmed up, my levels moderated pretty smartish, making me wonder if I actually just had quite extreme insulin resistance, as I never cariied a huge about of excess. Since trimming up, my levels are pretty low, and well within the non-diabetic ranges. I reckon I have a fair bit of leeway before I'd see diabetic numbers, but for now, I'm not driven enough to see where my personal envelope bursts.

Of course, one day I might just snap and really go for it.