I really don't know whether to eat cakes galore or to go on hunger strike :(

[briped]

Hi everybody,
I went for my first A1C since late March yesterday, and just an hour ago my DN rang to tell me the great news. The result came back as 5.8%/40. She was jubilant, me not so much. I'd been expecting something in the vicinity of 5.4. She was also very happy about my weight loss of 11 kgs, again, me not so much. My cholesterol had risen to 7(she couldn't give me a breakdown, only tell me that my HDL was 'normal'), so she encouraged me to start eating my atorvastatin again like a good girl. I've been eating LCHF for 7 months now, and I suppose I was hoping to be able to write my tale in the sub forum 'success stories'.
She suspects that the effect of the victoza I inject daily has started to fade. I suspect she's right, as my BGs have risen ever so slowly over the past couple of months for no apparent reason. Instead they're going to suggest ozempic when I see the endo doc in the beginning of november, but from what I can see its probably as damaging as victoza. Oh how I dread that meeting now.
Please don't give me hugs. I'm far too low, hopeless and frustrated for hugs, as you can see from my header.
I'm so sorry for the rant. Maybe my T2 is far too old for me to ever be able to control it without medication.

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi @briped,

I really feel your frustration. I've just had my last blood tests recently and they weren't what I was expecting.

To put things into perspective, though, your results aren't at all bad. An HbA1c of 5.8 is still non-diabetic. I have also noticed that some of us have higher HbA1cs than would be expected from blood sugar readings. So, in my mind if you have stable, low blood sugars with little variability, this might well result in longer-lived red blood cells.

Just curious: Why do they figure that victoza doesn't work any longer -- with blood sugars in the non-diabetic range?

As to cholesterol -- it really is important to have the breakdown. Also, your total might have gone up due to the weight loss. Maybe you could ask to wait for the next test to make a decision on statins. I've also seen that some forum members benefitted by trying to include more olive oil or avocado oil instead of butter and animal fats in the diet.

So, actually the picture is probably not as dire as you believe. Though I can definitely empathize with your disappointment when you were hoping for better.

 

[Brunneria]

Why don't you think those results are good? I do.

You have lost 11kg - that is around 22 pounds, or 1.5 stone. That is a brilliant achievement. Slow and steady, and a darn sight more sustainable than a quick drop by starvation, in my opinion. Anyone with an understanding of insulin resistance in T2s will appreciate how great that is.

As for the HbA1c, the important thing is that you are nicely steady and well below the UK category of pre-D.
My HbA1cs are ALWAYS higher than my predicted averages.
Have a google for HbA1c and glycation rates. Maybe you are just a slow glycator. No biggie. I don't get why the medical profession places such a stong reliance on HbA1cs, except of course it is cheaper than expecting us to take our own daily readings, isn't it?

Can't comment on the drugs, since I am not familiar with eiher that you mention, but I will say that anyone who thinks that tells you to change meds when you have a) got your HbA1c under control, and b) are below Pre-D levels, and c) have lost significant amounts of weight on that regime is... kind of an idiot.

 

[Resurgam]

Just a few hours ago I was talking about Atorvastatin and the problems I had with it to someone who has been taking it having been assured that she has got early Alzheimer's and arthritis and was shutting down her life, and I described my symptoms, and she went pale and called her husband and had me tell him what I had just described to her. I told them that after stopping the statin and the Metformin I came back to normal. I think that her doctor is going to be puzzled about her reversal of another progressive disease. I asked if her parents had had Alzheimer's, and as far as she knew no one in her immediate family had it, so I was even more suspicious of the cause of her forgetfulness.

 

[Goonergal]

@briped nothing much to add to what others have said. It’s disappointing when you don’t get the results you’re expecting, especially when you’ve worked hard. Those numbers are great though, and the weight loss is brilliant - so much harder to lose when you’ve been through a cycle of losing and regaining. Sounds like you’ve had a lot to deal with aside from the diabetes too, so keeping the diabetes under control is even more of an achievement. Don’t give up!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi everybody,
I went for my first A1C since late March yesterday, and just an hour ago my DN rang to tell me the great news. The result came back as 5.8%/40. She was jubilant, me not so much. I'd been expecting something in the vicinity of 5.4. She was also very happy about my weight loss of 11 kgs, again, me not so much. My cholesterol had risen to 7(she couldn't give me a breakdown, only tell me that my HDL was 'normal'), so she encouraged me to start eating my atorvastatin again like a good girl. I've been eating LCHF for 7 months now, and I suppose I was hoping to be able to write my tale in the sub forum 'success stories'.
She suspects that the effect of the victoza I inject daily has started to fade. I suspect she's right, as my BGs have risen ever so slowly over the past couple of months for no apparent reason. Instead they're going to suggest ozempic when I see the endo doc in the beginning of november, but from what I can see its probably as damaging as victoza. Oh how I dread that meeting now.
Please don't give me hugs. I'm far too low, hopeless and frustrated for hugs, as you can see from my header.
I'm so sorry for the rant. Maybe my T2 is far too old for me to ever be able to control it without medication.

You did well. So maybe the results weren't what you wanted. They were still non-diabetic! And you did lose weight. For some of us it just is slow going. For me, I'm in the middle of a backslide. Infections all over the place are messing with my bloods, and a bad reaction to keto/IF made me have to eat more, (still keto, but 3 meals instead of 1) so the weight's coming back on. Gained 2,5 kilo's in the past 2 weeks. But I'm going to keep going. It IS frustrating when things don't turn out the way you wanted, especially if you worked so hard to get results.

But you did get results.

Not exactly what you wanted....
But they were still pretty d**n good.

Not saying you're not allowed to feel your feelings.... Everyone's entitled. But since you don't want hugs, a pat on the back may be a good substitute.

Hope you wake to a better day today!
Jo

 

[briped]

First and foremost thanks for all your very supportive replies! They were what I needed, but of course they were to be expected from you lovely forum members. I hovered my mouse over the delete button after posting, because I felt like a whining ingrate compared to so many members with probs far graver than mine, but after the DN's call my optimism and motivation had taken a blow. I know from previous experience that it's so easy to slip back into my old habits when I feel the reward for my hard labour doesn't live up to my excpectations. It didn't happen this time. I wasn't even truly tempted, I was just ever so annoyed.
Yesterday the DN also gave me a new glucometer. A 'Glucomen', alas not the k2 which can also measure ketones, but still. Last night I wanted to try it out, but it just wasn't my day. After 3 finger pricks and as many 'err' on the screen I chucked it in the bin and declared it was cr*p. It's my impression that it's trickier to use than my old Freestyle lite, but in future I'll only get free strips for the glucomen as they're cheaper. Anyway, I fished it out of the bin and decided to complain about it, but just goes to show that I do have a bit of a temper
I do have to ask myself if testing 2-3 times a day is really worth it, as it would seem that the difference between that of my meter and the lab result is fairly significant, namely 5.3% vs. 5.8%.

 

[Brunneria]

First and foremost thanks for all your very supportive replies! They were what I needed, but of course they were to be expected from you lovely forum members. I hovered my mouse over the delete button after posting, because I felt like a whining ingrate compared to so many members with probs far graver than mine, but after the DN's call my optimism and motivation had taken a blow. I know from previous experience that it's so easy to slip back into my old habits when I feel the reward for my hard labour doesn't live up to my excpectations. It didn't happen this time. I wasn't even truly tempted, I was just ever so annoyed.
Yesterday the DN also gave me a new glucometer. A 'Glucomen', alas not the k2 which can also measure ketones, but still. Last night I wanted to try it out, but it just wasn't my day. After 3 finger pricks and as many 'err' on the screen I chucked it in the bin and declared it was cr*p. It's my impression that it's trickier to use than my old Freestyle lite, but in future I'll only get free strips for the glucomen as they're cheaper. Anyway, I fished it out of the bin and decided to complain about it, but just goes to show that I do have a bit of a temper
I do have to ask myself if testing 2-3 times a day is really worth it, as it would seem that the difference between that of my meter and the lab result is fairly significant, namely 5.3% vs. 5.8%.

Just to let you know that - like it or not - you are getting a virtual hug.

 

[briped]

Hi @briped,

I really feel your frustration. I've just had my last blood tests recently and they weren't what I was expecting.

I'm sorry to hear that. I know you're fighting too. At least if we'd been binging on high carb foods we'd know why, but I know I haven't and I more than suspect you haven't either.

Hi To put things into perspective, though, your results aren't at all bad. An HbA1c of 5.8 is still non-diabetic. I have also noticed that some of us have higher HbA1cs than would be expected from blood sugar readings. So, in my mind if you have stable, low blood sugars with little variability, this might well result in longer-lived red blood cells.

True, only just. I hadn't even realised that till you mentioned it. I was just so focused on the higher than expected result. I test 2-3 times a day, and it's not my impression that I get spikes.
[LIST]
[*][B]Normal:[/B] Below 42 mmol/mol (6.0%)
[*][B]Prediabetes:[/B] 42 to 47 mmol/mol (6.0 to 6.4%)
[*][B]Diabetes:[/B] 48 mmol/mol (6.5% or over)
[/LIST]

[QUOTE="ziggy_w, post: 1892933, member: 323454"]Hi [USER=472718]Just curious: Why do they figure that victoza doesn't work any longer -- with blood sugars in the non-diabetic range?[/QUOTE]

Probably because I mentioned that my A1C seems to have been creeping slowly upwards over the last 3 months for no obvious reason. At one point I believed I'd ruined 5 newly bought pens by not bringing them straight home to the fridge in extremely hot weather, but later on I ruled that out too. Also I mentioned that I didn't feel the appetite supressing effect anymore. I've been on Victoza for 3½ years, and according to the DN it's not unusual for this to happen. Also I think she genuinely wanted to help me lose more weight, and believed that ozempic could help me along those lines, but I know that its a close relative to Victoza with the same appetite suppresant effects, and I really don't need to eat less than I do. Incidentally, she's a lovely woman. A good listener and very empathic. No complaints about my LC diet at all.

[QUOTE="ziggy_w, post: 1892933, member: 323454"]As to cholesterol -- it really is important to have the breakdown. Also, your total might have gone up due to the weight loss. Maybe you could ask to wait for the next test to make a decision on statins. I've also seen that some forum members benefitted by trying to include more olive oil or avocado oil instead of butter and animal fats in the diet.

So, actually the picture is probably not as dire as you believe. Though I can definitely empathize with your disappointment when you were hoping for better.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Cholesterol gone up due to weight loss? My next test is due on Oct 29th. This is of course unusual, but the DN suggested that I up my dosage of metformin and decrease my Vicoza, and she'd like to see the result of that before my appointment with the endo doc come beginning of November. I know it's probably a very good idea to increase my intake of healthy oils. I'm just not good at them at all. Nor am I good at animal fats, for that matter. I still cut away the fatty bits, simply because I don't really like them.
Thanks for your reply. It was very helpful. :)[/user]

 

[briped]

Just to let you know that - like it or not - you are getting a virtual hug.

Ah well, I do like it *blush*

 

[briped]

Why don't you think those results are good? I do.

You have lost 11kg - that is around 22 pounds, or 1.5 stone. That is a brilliant achievement. Slow and steady, and a darn sight more sustainable than a quick drop by starvation, in my opinion. Anyone with an understanding of insulin resistance in T2s will appreciate how great that is.

Well, basically because I'm probably a spoiled brat who expects to get what she wishes for As for the 11 kgs in 7 months ... 3 years ago I lost 20 kgs in the same space of time, and I have a hard time understanding that I don't seem to be able to do an encore. Someone else in this thread mentioned that it gets harder to lose weight for every time you've actually lost. I've lost and gained a significant amount of weight several times in my life, so that could be why. I thought it had to do with age.

As for the HbA1c, the important thing is that you are nicely steady and well below the UK category of pre-D.
My HbA1cs are ALWAYS higher than my predicted averages.

And I am, nicely steady - or my BG-levels seem to be Another member whose lab results are higher than expected, well, the good news is that I will expect higher numbers next time, and not be quite as frustrated..

Have a google for HbA1c and glycation rates. Maybe you are just a slow glycator. No biggie. I don't get why the medical profession places such a stong reliance on HbA1cs, except of course it is cheaper than expecting us to take our own daily readings, isn't it?

Can't comment on the drugs, since I am not familiar with eiher that you mention, but I will say that anyone who thinks that tells you to change meds when you have a) got your HbA1c under control, and b) are below Pre-D levels, and c) have lost significant amounts of weight on that regime is... kind of an idiot.

Thanks, I'll have a good google. I'll also revise info on statins and the why and why nots. and get my arguments up to date. Even take notes and bring them along. I'll rush to my DN's defense re the suggestion of altering my medication, but I think that I covered that in my reply to @ziggy_w somewhere else in this thread. Thanks for another useful reply

 

[briped]

Just a few hours ago I was talking about Atorvastatin and the problems I had with it to someone who has been taking it having been assured that she has got early Alzheimer's and arthritis and was shutting down her life, and I described my symptoms, and she went pale and called her husband and had me tell him what I had just described to her. I told them that after stopping the statin and the Metformin I came back to normal. I think that her doctor is going to be puzzled about her reversal of another progressive disease. I asked if her parents had had Alzheimer's, and as far as she knew no one in her immediate family had it, so I was even more suspicious of the cause of her forgetfulness.

I think I'll do a search for your posts on statins. I stopped taking them 2-3 months ago, and gradually I can feel the effects on my brains. They actually seem to be working again. Mind you, I never said how well, but better than before!! My mum died from vascular dementia 2½ years ago, and it was so hard to witness the downwards spiral she went through. Almost more than anything else I fear that it could happen to me one day, and we do hear that T2s are more likely to get dementia at some point. At least my mum had family to stand up for her, whereas I'll be without any next-of-kin. I'm digressing ... Amazing story. Thanks

 

[smw99]

Given all that has happened to you, you sound as though you are doing amazingly well. We are always so hard on ourselves!
Your HbA1c is non diabetic which is a great achievement. I too have been frustrated that mine hasn't come down as much as I have expected given how few carbs I eat. My latest result, that I expected to be up rather than down just came back as 34 which is the lowest I have ever had in more than 2 years so you may well go lower over time. You are losing weight and sound as though you will continue to do so. That will definitely impact on your cholesterol levels so don't worry about those levels until you reach a stable weight. Sending you a hug as you deserve it!

 

[Lisa haffy]

Hi everybody,
I went for my first A1C since late March yesterday, and just an hour ago my DN rang to tell me the great news. The result came back as 5.8%/40. She was jubilant, me not so much. I'd been expecting something in the vicinity of 5.4. She was also very happy about my weight loss of 11 kgs, again, me not so much. My cholesterol had risen to 7(she couldn't give me a breakdown, only tell me that my HDL was 'normal'), so she encouraged me to start eating my atorvastatin again like a good girl. I've been eating LCHF for 7 months now, and I suppose I was hoping to be able to write my tale in the sub forum 'success stories'.
She suspects that the effect of the victoza I inject daily has started to fade. I suspect she's right, as my BGs have risen ever so slowly over the past couple of months for no apparent reason. Instead they're going to suggest ozempic when I see the endo doc in the beginning of november, but from what I can see its probably as damaging as victoza. Oh how I dread that meeting now.
Please don't give me hugs. I'm far too low, hopeless and frustrated for hugs, as you can see from my header.
I'm so sorry for the rant. Maybe my T2 is far too old for me to ever be able to control it without medication.

I’m new here, that’s an incredible achievement on your behalf. I’m possibly diabetic because I’m obese and I’m terrified about how I’m gonna lose this weight. You have inspired me, thank you.

 

[briped]

I’m new here, that’s an incredible achievement on your behalf. I’m possibly diabetic because I’m obese and I’m terrified about how I’m gonna lose this weight. You have inspired me, thank you.

Hi Lisa, and welcome. Oh do take a good look at some of the sub forums here. So many stories about how people have reversed their condition, and lots of help to find. Lots of people in here would argue that you're obese because you're diabetic ... I'll tag @daisy1 who has good advice for all newcomers. Also please consider posting a little something about yourself in the beginners' subforum, especially if you're looking for help and support.

 

[briped]

@briped nothing much to add to what others have said. It’s disappointing when you don’t get the results you’re expecting, especially when you’ve worked hard. Those numbers are great though, and the weight loss is brilliant - so much harder to lose when you’ve been through a cycle of losing and regaining. Sounds like you’ve had a lot to deal with aside from the diabetes too, so keeping the diabetes under control is even more of an achievement. Don’t give up!

Thanks Goonergal. Of course I won't give up. My header was just an expression of sheer frustration, but I know full well the consequences of giving up. "so much harder to lose when you’ve been through a cycle of losing and regaining", I've been through several of those, but didn't know it would have significance on future weight losses. That shouldn't even have to be in the plural, should it? I suspect that my age (57) doesn't help much either ... Thanks for being so encouraging, and for showing the way.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Hi briped,
I too am wondering why you are being so hard on yourself. At diagnosis I had an HbA1c of 104. I was told that Type 2 diabetes was progressive and all that I could hope to do was delay the onset of complications. Max dose of Metformin, complete terror of carbs, lost 40lbs, HbA1c normal after 6 months. I then put on 10lbs but, importantly, my weight stabilised. My HbA1c has been in the normal range for over 4 years but during this time my total cholesterol has increased to a steady 7.3mmol/L. At first I was very concerned but 3 months without any saturated fat did not make any difference. My ratio of trig/HDL is excellent. I have reduced my dosage of Metformin to 500mg day, continue to eat a low-carb diet and will avoid statins. I have stopped beating myself up, enjoy life, exercise regularly and am fitter and healthier than I was 20 years ago. I have accepted that my metabolism is problematic and that I have choices about how I deal with this but stressing about numbers is not going to help. I won't go on about error ranges, natural variation, over-adherence to rather arbitrarily set boundaries for diagnosis etc.
You need to be pleased with yourself!!

 

[briped]

You did well. So maybe the results weren't what you wanted. They were still non-diabetic! And you did lose weight. For some of us it just is slow going. For me, I'm in the middle of a backslide. Infections all over the place are messing with my bloods, and a bad reaction to keto/IF made me have to eat more, (still keto, but 3 meals instead of 1) so the weight's coming back on. Gained 2,5 kilo's in the past 2 weeks. But I'm going to keep going. It IS frustrating when things don't turn out the way you wanted, especially if you worked so hard to get results.

But you did get results.

Not exactly what you wanted....
But they were still pretty d**n good.

Not saying you're not allowed to feel your feelings.... Everyone's entitled. But since you don't want hugs, a pat on the back may be a good substitute.

Hope you wake to a better day today!
Jo

Oh I knooow (what'sher name from Faulty Towers), and yes, I certainly did wake up to a better day, thanks to you and other encouraging people in here. Slow going? You're right about that. Did you also lose and gain weight previously? You got me curious re the bad reaction to keto/IF, and of course feel free to not reply, but what happened? I hope you find the right balance again.
My DN had a hard time making me explain how many meals I eat per day, because it depends on which day. Sometimes I'm hungry, and will do something to ease the hunger, but often not enough to define that something as a 'meal'. Sometimes I'm not hungry, so will skip tea, which for most people is the main meal. DN "but nobody can live on just one meal per day!! ". Me, "lots of people do that". When I added that I wished I didn't have to eat at all she looked decidedly shocked. Well, that's how I feel. Would be so much easier, wouldn't it?
A Question of Balance is an ancient and lovely album by The Moody Blues, and it is. I lose weight and my BG levels go down, but my cholesterol levels up. Isn't it as if our bodies have a hard time finding that balance again? We lose weight, but for some of us it doesn't mean that we lose metformin and other kinds of medications. Our bodies are so complicated that it's hard to fathom.
Thanks for the pat on my back. It was a little bit to one side, so can I have another one to balance it out, please?

 

[daisy1]

@briped

Hello Briped and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[david1968]

@briped - I've just read through this and I'm sorry, but you're being far too hard on yourself. Just put this one dow to exerience and keep doing what you've been doing.