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2 for the price of 1 - not for us

This year we (well I the misses went along with it!) decided that I would grow a lot of our own vegetables.. not enough for every day but probably 2 / 3 days a week veg comes from the garden... I have to say the difference in taste is amazing.. We also keep 3 chickens for a ready supply of eggs and again you can't compare an egg from the supermarket to one freshly laid!

Picking up on low-carb choice in supermarkets. I have to say that for day to day eating I don't have a problem.. my real bug bear is convenience foods.. I do a lot of travelling and it just isn't feasible to take food.. so I often find myself hunting for something that's low carb.. this pretty much means that you are limited to salads, meat and cheese none of which are particularly easy to eat if your on the move!..
 
when I am travelling i now take a small cool-bag and put slices of cheese, some salad and sliced cold meats from the deli counter into it. It keep sme going when we get delays or are between steak houses :D
 
What it boils down to though defren is organic is a lot more expensive due to the crop not being so heavy = less profit for the same amount of work.
Organic meat is not always grain free either. Organic just means it hasn't had processed bulk cattle feed.
Which means grain can still be fed as long as it's organic.
It takes anything from 18 to 24 mths to rear a beef animal from start to finish, lambs take anything from 4 to 6 mths depending on how early in the season they are born. But the big but in all this is where you have livestock you can also have dead stock. IE, there's nothing to stop that produced animal dying a week or a day before it is sent off. The farmer makes very little once he takes his costs out of it. For 18 mths of looking after 1 bullock he will probably end up with something like £170 if he is lucky. If unlucky he is out of pocket.
Yep farmers sure do have a fantastic life not.
 
CarbsRok said:
What it boils down to though defren is organic is a lot more expensive due to the crop not being so heavy = less profit for the same amount of work.
Organic meat is not always grain free either. Organic just means it hasn't had processed bulk cattle feed.
Which means grain can still be fed as long as it's organic.
Click to expand...

Yes, I realise this, but I buy grass fed, I didn't make that clear. It is difficult to find grain fed organic though as part of the regulations on organic beef means they must be reared outdoors. This is not the exact top and bottom of it I know, but the animals can't be housed in feed lots. Like hens, they must roam, so grain fed organic I would suspect would be harder work on the farmer?

I think the reasons why organic anything is more expensive is pretty clear cut, with the extra expenses, careful caring animal husbandry and the extra time it takes to get the animals market ready it does cost more, you're either happy (or able) to pay that extra, or not.

Like Pneu, if I had the knowledge to grow my own I may give it a go, but green fingers sadly, is not one of my accomplishments.
 
CarbsRok said:
It takes anything from 18 to 24 mths to rear a beef animal from start to finish, lambs take anything from 4 to 6 mths depending on how early in the season they are born. But the big but in all this is where you have livestock you can also have dead stock. IE, there's nothing to stop that produced animal dying a week or a day before it is sent off. The farmer makes very little once he takes his costs out of it. For 18 mths of looking after 1 bullock he will probably end up with something like £170 if he is lucky. If unlucky he is out of pocket.
Yep farmers sure do have a fantastic life not.
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£170 for 18 months of hard work. Ridiculous.

I know that food prices have shot through the roof recently - but in real terms, I think that meat is cheaper than it's ever been. I think we'd all be better off for giving a bigger cut to the farmers.

Personally I'd always be prepared to pay more for quality, but I realise that not everyone has that luxury.
 
Defren said:
CarbsRok said:
What it boils down to though defren is organic is a lot more expensive due to the crop not being so heavy = less profit for the same amount of work.
Organic meat is not always grain free either. Organic just means it hasn't had processed bulk cattle feed.
Which means grain can still be fed as long as it's organic.
Click to expand...

Yes, I realise this, but I buy grass fed, I didn't make that clear. It is difficult to find grain fed organic though as part of the regulations on organic beef means they must be reared outdoors. This is not the exact top and bottom of it I know, but the animals can't be housed in feed lots. Like hens, they must roam, so grain fed organic I would suspect would be harder work on the farmer?
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No, cattle can and are fed outdoors using feed troughs It's quite simple to do. A lot less hard work on the farmer as well due to no mucking out of sheds.
Keeping out all the year around would only be possible where either the land is very well drained and sheltered or very small numbers are reared. Once the ground is ruined due to over use or poaching it's fit for nothing.
 
borofergie said:
CarbsRok said:
It takes anything from 18 to 24 mths to rear a beef animal from start to finish, lambs take anything from 4 to 6 mths depending on how early in the season they are born. But the big but in all this is where you have livestock you can also have dead stock. IE, there's nothing to stop that produced animal dying a week or a day before it is sent off. The farmer makes very little once he takes his costs out of it. For 18 mths of looking after 1 bullock he will probably end up with something like £170 if he is lucky. If unlucky he is out of pocket.
Yep farmers sure do have a fantastic life not.
Click to expand...

£170 for 18 months of hard work. Ridiculous.

I know that food prices have shot through the roof recently - but in real terms, I think that meat is cheaper than it's ever been. I think we'd all be better off for giving a bigger cut to the farmers.

Personally I'd always be prepared to pay more for quality, but I realise that not everyone has that luxury.
Click to expand...

Are you saying it's ridiculous the low return the farmers get or my figures are wrong?

Take the dairy farmers for instance, they were until they kicked up a stink about it being paid 4 pence a litre less than production costs.
 
There are two reasons I hardly ever buy BOGOF food offers:-

1) they are not appropriate for single people (why buy something to have it go off?) and

2) the big supermarkets never take the loss themselves - they simply inform the producers that they will only be paying half-price for the strawberries (for example) that week. That is the nature of the way our producers are contracted in to the supermarkets at the moment - the buyer calls all the tunes.

How would those of you who are still working feel if your boss turned round and said he was only paying you half your wages this week?

As far as farm livings go - the bigger arable farmers in general make a decent living; livestock farming is a different matter, and upland farming (all livestock, you can't grow crops up here!) is a very different thing. The average income of an upland sheep farm is less than £8000 per annum, and it's d**n hard work! I live in what is known, agriculturally, as a "less favoured area" - which means that our farmers get smaller payments for (eg) environmental protection schemes - about half what lowland farmers, already on higher incomes, get!

I for one want to eat food produced in Britain, preferably organic, and I want the meat I eat to have been produced to British welfare standards - which are better than the EU regulations. I spend a high percentage of my income on good, locally produced food. Yes, I do buy the occasional low-carb ready meal 'cos they're very convenient, and I buy almost all my other household products on my monthly Tesco trip, but I do try to buy British and local as far as possible.

I still have my milk delivered to my doorstep, 2 mornings a week, from a local farm. I don't mind paying for that - how else are they going to work out that I've died in the night, if there isn't a pint of milk still on the doorstep? :lol:

Viv 8)
 
CarbsRok said:
Are you saying it's ridiculous the low return the farmers get or my figures are wrong?

Take the dairy farmers for instance, they were until they kicked up a stink about it being paid 4 pence a litre less than production costs.
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I trust your figures. I'm saying that it's criminal that they get so little...
 
Paul1976 said:
+1 All that hard graft for such a low return IS criminal!
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I agree Paul, My hubby gave up dairy in 1996 because of finances. They also have to keep to a milk quota and if they dont produce the exact amount that has been worked out they get heavy fines. :(

All farming is hard work but the dairy farmers work so much harder and for so little! They have the threat of Foot and mouth, TB and god forbid if they want a holiday. They have to pay a relief milker to come in (probably costs more than the holiday itself.) and usually when they get home there is a problem with a heiffer having mastitis or something ( more vets bills. )

The problem is that with the economy as it is, people are going to pay as little as they have to, just to get by and feed their families.

Lucy.xxx
 
My nephew went to Brymore school, it's state funded but you still have to pay fee's!

As to farming, I've lived in the farming community all my life, so friends and family are or were farmers or farm hands!

Farming is just like another other business, and with any business a loss isn't always a loss! Most business will mark up a loss or profit, based on whether there business achieved the projected profit for that year!

And just like any other business they have to factor into their business or the various elements that could impact on that business, and ensuring that wise investment decisions are made... So they ensure that cash flow isn't a major problem!

And sorry a farmer is just like any other businessman or self-employed person fail, you are likely to lose your home, and they have the same entitlements to state benefits as other businessmen and self-employed, Benefit wise, between this group and the 'employee' the difference is within SSP and unemployed entitlements, they don't get SSP and won't get an higher rate of JSA, but that because they pay a Stamp, rather than a percentage of income as in the PAYE scheme!

As to Social Housing, there is no difference what's so ever to the next individual, if they lose their home then it's just like anybody else losing their home, the local authority will calculate their point/banding and needs, purely based on their circumstances, so if you've lost you house because you defaulted on your mortgage due to being made redundant or lost your farm.. you will the same as the next applicant...

So when I live surrounded by farmers, who have a fair amount of spending power, either they are living above their means or they aren't as skint as they proclaim they are!

And knowing a couple, I do where my opinion stands!
 
jopar said:
So when I live surrounded by farmers, who have a fair amount of spending power, either they are living above their means or they aren't as skint as they proclaim they are!

And knowing a couple, I do where my opinion stands!
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Even though I have lived and worked on farms for over 40 years, Jopar I bow to your superior knowledge.
respect.gif
 
jopar said:
My nephew went to Brymore school, it's state funded but you still have to pay fee's!
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You only have to pay fees if you are a boarder (unsuprisingly): £8100 pa for food and accommodation.
Education is free, day-pupils pay nothing.
http://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/schoo ... ore-school

As usual, this is besides the point, £8100 a year is a good investment in the future of your business.
 
shop said:
Paul1976 said:
+1 All that hard graft for such a low return IS criminal!
Click to expand...

I agree Paul, My hubby gave up dairy in 1996 because of finances. They also have to keep to a milk quota and if they dont produce the exact amount that has been worked out they get heavy fines. :(

All farming is hard work but the dairy farmers work so much harder and for so little! They have the threat of Foot and mouth, TB and god forbid if they want a holiday. They have to pay a relief milker to come in (probably costs more than the holiday itself.) and usually when they get home there is a problem with a heiffer having mastitis or something ( more vets bills. )

The problem is that with the economy as it is, people are going to pay as little as they have to, just to get by and feed their families.

Lucy.xxx
Click to expand...

I have always wanted to work on a farm, even in my teens, probably because of the animals ( yes it is the animals, and being outside) :wink: . I still haven't, I live in a town and don't drive! but hats off to those bl**dy hard working farmers and their families who work day in and day out, in all weathers, unsoiciable flipping hours and must think ' why the hell do I do this' because its in their blood and often handed down from great-, grandfathers generation and it's in their way of life :thumbup: Farmers and their families and workers ROCK in my books :thumbup: RRB
 
Robinredbreast said:
shop said:
Paul1976 said:
+1 All that hard graft for such a low return IS criminal!
Click to expand...

I agree Paul, My hubby gave up dairy in 1996 because of finances. They also have to keep to a milk quota and if they dont produce the exact amount that has been worked out they get heavy fines. :(

All farming is hard work but the dairy farmers work so much harder and for so little! They have the threat of Foot and mouth, TB and god forbid if they want a holiday. They have to pay a relief milker to come in (probably costs more than the holiday itself.) and usually when they get home there is a problem with a heiffer having mastitis or something ( more vets bills. )

The problem is that with the economy as it is, people are going to pay as little as they have to, just to get by and feed their families.

Lucy.xxx
Click to expand...

I have always wanted to work on a farm, even in my teens, probably because of the animals ( yes it is the animals, and being outside) :wink: . I still haven't, I live in a town and don't drive! but hats off to those bl**dy hard working farmers and their families who work day in and day out, in all weathers, unsoiciable flipping hours and must think ' why the hell do I do this' because its in their blood and often handed down from great-, grandfathers generation and it's in their way of life :thumbup: Farmers and their families and workers ROCK in my books :thumbup: RRB
Click to expand...

RRB I so agree, you seem to have so much more of a rounded view of farming :thumbup: I wasn't brought up with farming but lived in the countryside. I now have so much more respect and understanding for the way of life that is in the blood of my Hubby, his Dad and those before him. Not everything is as it seems to someone looking in from the outside.

It is so refreshing to hear someone recognise the sheer hard work and dedication needed to live this life, because as you say it is 24/7 ( I am not talking about myself. ) You have hit the nail on the head and have my :thumbup: My father in law has known work, worry, hard times, and sheer determination that I will be lucky to see again in my lifetime :) :thumbup:

Hope you are OK RRB, Best wishes

Lucy xxx
 
Even though I have lived and worked on farms for over 40 years, Jopar I bow to your superior knowledge. Image

CarbsRok :D

I too put aside my knowledge of my families 120 years of farming, and also take a bow to Jopar.
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lucylocket61 said:
Even though I have lived and worked on farms for over 40 years, Jopar I bow to your superior knowledge. Image

CarbsRok :D

I too put aside my knowledge of my families 120 years of farming, and also take a bow to Jopar.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

:thumbup: xxx
 
That won't happen luckily Stephen,Remember, 'Farmer Jo' says that they're all rolling in it and counting their big wedge of cash! :thumbup:
 
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