A Burden on the NHS - Type 2's

[Anonymous]

Hmm if u research it there are conflicting opinions on that and some articles even say he was only diagnosed type 2 due to his age. I think he probably is a misdiagnosis but because he takes insulin anyway there's no need to look into it further. Just my opinion though.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 23 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

Why are people so negative about someone who appears to have resolved their diabetes? Theanswer, of course, is that they were probably misdiagnosed. I, too, am 'resolved', but all I get from this site is 'you were never diabetic in the first place', or 'you were lucky', or you suffer from "low blood sugars" and do not have the right to use the term "hypo" because that term is reserved for real diabetics. I have just seen a blog from a while back where the reply to a 'resolved' diabetic was "Ahh but your HbA1C is at the higher end of normal"!!! All because I appear to have gone against the 'grain' in terms of diet, and I am so glad that did not allow myself to be swayed or brainwashed by anyone, including the extremely 'wooly' research studies appearing on the internet. I continue to be sensible about my diet.

If people wish to disbelieve success stories and spend their time trying to disprove them, then I think they are in a very sad place and so what is the point in their own efforts? What are they themselves aiming for? If this offends anyone, then so be it.

PS I've just had a biscuit whilst teaching an 88 years-old stroke victim who now has Parkinson's Disease, and my bG of 5.7 has just shot through the roof to 6.0 after just one hour!!! What should I do? Maybe I should have bored the pants off the nurse by saying "I'm sorry, I can't have a biscuit because it may make me diabetic again!"... that's probably not far off the 'stock' advice I would get here.

 

[paul-1976]

I apologise if I have offended in the past

 

[xyzzy]

Why are people so negative about someone who appears to have resolved their diabetes? Theanswer, of course, is that they were probably misdiagnosed. I, too, am 'resolved', but all I get from this site is 'you were never diabetic in the first place', or 'you were lucky', or you suffer from "low blood sugars" and do not have the right to use the term "hypo" because that term is reserved for real diabetics.

I really don't see the problem here. You were diabetic, you took control and now you can presumably eat a reasonable high GI regime and maintain a relatively good hBA1c. Good for you that you are "resolved". It would imply that your diabetes was mostly insulin resistance based and that you have maintained reasonably good beta cell function (or else without medication you would have issues with a relatively high GI regime).

Your are however uniquely individual and sit within a broad spectrum of people with T2. Others, myself included, have lost insulin resistance, have good control but still can't manage anything like a relatively high GI regime (unless we elect for medication or insulin) because for whatever reason we suffered significant beta cell loss as well as insulin resistance.

All T2's will sit somewhere on the line of insulin resistance versus beta cell loss. The important issue is controlling the condition for your future health and in my opinion where you are on that line shouldn't in any way shape or form be used as a measure of how much of a burden on the NHS you are.

People get Type 2 diabetes for a wide range of causes and although weight gain is a cause people gain weight for a wide range of reasons totally outside of "the food in your mouth" dogma pushed by the press and politicians.

If you are "resolved" and are still getting hypoglycaemic episodes you should seek professional advice.

 

[LittleWolf]

Sounds pretty sensible, Bear.

We all forget that everybody's T2 is different and whilst taking in the complexities that come with T1 it is nowhere near as cut and dry.

I think I have beta cell loss now with the numbers I've seen... But try telling that to that DurianRider guy on YouTube who advocates not just eating a few bananas (some people find a super low carb diet counterproductive- fair enough, some sugar 'reminds' your pancreas of its job) but he is advocates 30 BANANAS a day.

30. THIRTY?

****.

He is telling people a fruit only diet WILL reverse their diabetes. Maybe replacing refined sugar treats with fruit here and there, again maybe not super low carbing but it gets frustrating when people think its as simple as that and some of us can't because ONE banana probably murders a bunch of beta cells

That's a mile off someone like Gezza having a biscuit here and there though. People shouldn't be demonised for wanting to eat near to normally, nor made to feel the fact they still have diabetes is their own fault because they don't load themselves with carbohydrates and fructose

All this diet **** for T2s Sometimes I wonder if it's just easier to just go on insulin. I get jealous of my larger who just doses according to whatever **** he's eating, but then I remember just how dangerous his highs and lows can be.

All things considered though, if someone is only diabetic because they are hugely overweight and insulin resistant, and there is a good chance losing the weight will resolve it but they just aren't interested in doing anything about it then that sounds kind of like a burden and perhaps in the literal sense too. Again I acknowledge my eating habits (relying on fruit/sugarsugarsugar) during anorexia probably caused this and it's my fault so my skinny ass is just as much of a burden.


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[paul-1976]

Off topic I know but Xyzzys avatar isn't actually a polar bear but a rather cool,giant breed mountain dog! I know what you mean though-I had to look twice when I first joined here!

 

[Anonymous]

Why are people so negative about someone who appears to have resolved their diabetes? Theanswer, of course, is that they were probably misdiagnosed. I, too, am 'resolved', but all I get from this site is 'you were never diabetic in the first place', or 'you were lucky', or you suffer from "low blood sugars" and do not have the right to use the term "hypo" because that term is reserved for real diabetics.

I really don't see the problem here. You were diabetic, you took control and now you can presumably eat a reasonable high GI regime and maintain a relatively good hBA1c. Good for you that you are "resolved". It would imply that your diabetes was mostly insulin resistance based and that you have maintained reasonably good beta cell function (or else without medication you would have issues with a relatively high GI regime).

Your are however uniquely individual and sit within a broad spectrum of people with T2. Others, myself included, have lost insulin resistance, have good control but still can't manage anything like a relatively high GI regime (unless we elect for medication or insulin) because for whatever reason we suffered significant beta cell loss as well as insulin resistance.

All T2's will sit somewhere on the line of insulin resistance versus beta cell loss. The important issue is controlling the condition for your future health and in my opinion where you are on that line shouldn't in any way shape or form be used as a measure of how much of a burden on the NHS you are.

People get Type 2 diabetes for a wide range of causes and although weight gain is a cause people gain weight for a wide range of reasons totally outside of "the food in your mouth" dogma pushed by the press and politicians.

If you are "resolved" and are still getting hypoglycaemic episodes you should seek professional advice.

The 'problem' was that I was following up on a recent blog rather than the original one. I have this bad habit of continuing the thread rather than going back to square one which is often a long way. My blog was in response to an illustration of some people's reaction to what appears to be good news. e.g 'probably a mis-diagnosis' etc. As you well know, I have been at the receiving end of these types of comments. Maybe, probably, the person just got it plain right and might be insulted by insinuations otherwise.

Regarding the original subject matter, I remain a burden on the NHS to the extent that I still have to have annual follow-ups, albeit at less expense. I've hardly used test strips in the last three years or so and only started again temporarily (at both the expense of the NHS and myself) for the purposes of discussing the subject on this site. So I have always been relatively 'cheap to run' as a diabetic. I have demonstrated to my GP/DN that I can be trusted to be sensible with my lifestyle and meter and not 'get into a flap' and ring on the doorbell whenever I have a bad bG day.

The "low blood sugar" emias have, as I have written many times, have been happening for as long as I can remember, and at least 40 years.

 

[xyzzy]

The "low blood sugar" emias have, as I have written many times, have been happening for as long as I can remember, and at least 40 years.

As I said in the other thread I fully accept your episodes are real and unpleasant but still do draw a distinction between them and a hypo caused by an effective insulin overdose. Hope you can get them resolved by some means or other.

 

[xyzzy]

Sounds pretty sensible, Bear.

That's a new one!

We all forget that everybody's T2 is different and whilst taking in the complexities that come with T1 it is nowhere near as cut and dry.

I think I have beta cell loss now with the numbers I've seen... But try telling that to that DurianRider guy on YouTube who advocates not just eating a few bananas (some people find a super low carb diet counterproductive- fair enough, some sugar 'reminds' your pancreas of its job) but he is advocates 30 BANANAS a day.

30. THIRTY?

****.

He is telling people a fruit only diet WILL reverse their diabetes. Maybe replacing refined sugar treats with fruit here and there, again maybe not super low carbing but it gets frustrating when people think its as simple as that and some of us can't because ONE banana probably murders a bunch of beta cells

That's a mile off someone like Gezza having a biscuit here and there though. People shouldn't be demonised for wanting to eat near to normally, nor made to feel the fact they still have diabetes is their own fault because they don't load themselves with carbohydrates and fructose

Anyone who advocates a single view of how to control T2 is plain wrong. My advice is to read everything and find the solution that works best for you but DO find a solution.

All this diet **** for T2s Sometimes I wonder if it's just easier to just go on insulin.

Actually that's my attitude. I've told the GP if I stop enjoying the LC lifestyle I'll want to go straight to insulin and avoid the drugs elevator.

I get jealous of my larger who just doses according to whatever **** he's eating, but then I remember just how dangerous his highs and lows can be.

If they can get away with that attitude fine but many insulin using diabetic find the advice to just cover carbs with larger doses doesn't necessarily work out well for them.

All things considered though, if someone is only diabetic because they are hugely overweight and insulin resistant, and there is a good chance losing the weight will resolve it

Yeah but only if they get diagnosed quick enough. If you run uncontrolled for a prolonged period prior to diagnosis then the beta cell damage can and does occur so even after losing insulin resistance you still can't process normal amounts of carbs.

 

[LittleWolf]

Oh whoops! Is your avatar a Great Pyrenees or something? Sorry for the species mix-up ^^;

I don't really think its a good idea to eat vast amounts of junk and cover it with insulin as much as I don't think it's a good idea for a non diabetic. He's been T1 since he was 13 and is absolutely convinced he knows what he's doing. A few recent DKA/hypo 'accidents' makes me worry though :/

since you alerted me to how bad my phase 1 is right now I'm wondering how long I'm going to be a sitting duck. People already tell me I'm too skinny, I'm 20, I do plenty of exercise, I eat alright. 6 months ago my readings were in the 3-10.5 in a day which concerned me enough. Now they are typically 6-16.5 in a day. The surgery still thinks I'm out of my mind. Um... Wondering if small amounts of insulin with meals would give my pancreas a break and slow things down.

Then I start thinking about the cost of insulin and syringes and alcohol wipes etc etc to the NHS@_@

GuiltGuiltGuilt.

You're right about the time one is diagnosed affecting whether or not a bit of weight loss will 'fix it' but it seems to at least help most.. To the point I almost wish I was fat so the GP would take me seriously from early on and then I could lose it all and go yay, there's my bit done I helped... Or levels being near-normal. Just kind of drifting here... Think I will book an appointment next week and my angle will be 'lets look at this now before I cost you guys ALOT of money later on, see...' Like a gangster.

Or something. :/




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[xyzzy]

I'm 20, I do plenty of exercise, I eat alright. 6 months ago my readings were in the 3-10.5 in a day which concerned me enough. Now they are typically 6-16.5 in a day. The surgery still thinks I'm out of my mind. Um... Wondering if small amounts of insulin with meals would give my pancreas a break and slow things down.

Then I start thinking about the cost of insulin and syringes and alcohol wipes etc etc to the NHS@_@

GuiltGuiltGuilt.

Yeah he's a Spanish Pyranean weighs in at just over 90kg and is taller than most Great Danes.

I'd go back and ask for a c-peptide and GAD test to make sure you're not progressing towards LADA (T1.5) You're 20, skinny, exercise and eat well and that doesn't sound very T2 to me. It is very difficult to convince some GP's that T1.5 is a possibility as some haven't even heard of it. The bottom line is as a healthy 20 year old you should not be seeing BG readings in the teens. If you can take someone with you to the docs to back you up then go for that as well. Unfortunately you are not that unusual there have been several people who post here that started off with a similar story to yours.

Insulin is actually one of the cheaper treatments so don't feel guilty!

 

[janeecee]

LW, I take it your fasting and Hba1c came back as "normal"? Did you suggest a referral for OGTT? If so, what was the reaction? It seems that in my area the OGTT is now only for pregnant women with a high FBG result, and they rely on the Hba1c as the 'back up' to the fasting test.


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[LittleWolf]

My HbA1c came back 'normal' but FBG was 7 the first time and somewhere in the 12s the second

It was usually high for me. It was usually upper 6s but I've been swinging everywhere daily with the weather and stuff. I got postprandial teens even after my lovely 10 mile forest walk.

Hmmph...


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[Thundercat]

I'm not T2 or overweight so maybe my opinion won't be considered but it really gets on my nerves when people's weight is used as a stick to beat them with. It's extremely unlikely that overweight diabetics are lolling around on the sofa stuffing their faces thinking "sod it, I don't care about diabetes". Obesity is a serious issue that can lead to a multitude of health problems and it is not as easy to lose weight as just deciding to go on a diet. There are a variety of things that lead to obesity (low self-esteem, depression and it's associated self - destructive tendencies, a lifetime of poor nutritional example or education etc etc) Anyone suffering from any illness should be treated equally. No one is in a position to judge those who are overweight and dealing with insulin resistance. It's discrimination pure and simple. We do not know what drives or impedes other people. Diabetes is enough to deal with without the additional burden of being judged for your body weight. I can only imagine that it is worse when it comes from fellow diabetics.

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[catherinecherub]

Well said Thundercat, it is what I call fatism. I am not overweight but feel for my fellow diabetics who are and who have to run the gauntlet of other people's prejudice. It has no place on this forum IMHO.


http://www.wellcomecollection.org/explo ... atism.aspx

http://www.positivelypositive.com/2013/ ... -you-love/

 

[PuRe]

When I was diagnosed 7 weeks ago the nurse asked me why I thought I had diabetes. I said "there is a lot in my family" (I now know 5 Aunts/Uncles and 4 cousins all on dads side). The nurse look at me and said No its because your fat! She then told me to go away and stop eating biscuits and processed food. I told her I don't eat biscuits and I cook all my food from scratch. She looked at me as if I was lying. Told me to come back in a month. 4 weeks later she decided even with the best will in the world my BC was not going to come down on its own and I'm not on metformin. To say she made me fell like **** is an understatement.

 

[LittleWolf]

I'm speaking as someone who has suffered with depression and low self esteem and when I started rapidly putting on weight at puberty (now thought to be because that was the onset of PCOS/insulin resistance) I freaked out and went off the deep end becoming anorexic. But the point is I know depression and self loathing well. I cut all carbs and lost a lot of weight.

Now combined with PuRe's reply it sounds like for SOME of us it was the IR/D causing the diabetes not the other way around. The large amounts of insulin caused me to DOUBLE in weight in just a couple of months. Now I am normal weight/underweight and BG is creeping up so don't think I don't understand the 'it's not just fat people' thing. I have been both ends of the spectrum.

But there HAVE been people who straight up say they don't want to change or even try to lose weight, but of course that attitude doesn't apply to everyone. I think my thin period staved off high blood sugars because I also had no more PCOS symptoms and low blood sugar during that time. It kind of does help to lose the weight in most cases or if you catch it early. You can't really argue with that.

But not every overweight person or even overweight diabetic is a lazy slob. But I can hardly blame anyone who wants to point the finger. Even I will accept that most of it is my fault, genetic factors aside.

I hope I didn't offend or upset anyone...


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[paul-1976]

LW..It's just a hunch but I'd bet money that you're in the T1/LADA bracket..The fasting BG's and HbA1c were still not too bad for me in the early days whilst my 2nd phase insulin was not too bad but those very high spikes aren't normal for you at your age..are you in the UK or did I read you're in the Caribbean currently..can't remember.. :wink:

 

[LittleWolf]

I'm in the UK at the moment. The doctor told me T1 was highly unlikely otherwise 'they'd know about it'

My ethnic background and PCOS (characteristic of insulin resistance) are more associated with T2 though. I got big at puberty. All my family are type 2. GP thinks I'm presenting him with conflicting information (highs and lows) enough as it is.

God I really feel like I don't know anything anymore.


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[janeecee]

LW, you've got to keep trying to get your GP to see sense. I know it's an uphill struggle I have to do the same with some other health issues that need investigating and they are so reluctant to do anything. I am met with the same disbelief ie "you're slim, you've got low BP, low cholesterol, the high postprandial numbers are normal", etc etc. I didn't eat my way to (pre)diabetes, that's for sure. I've never been overweight or anything close to overweight in my life. My sister's husband is T2 with complications. He was diagnosed around the age of 40 and was probably diabetic for at least 10 years before diagnosis. In his case it was in the family, his aunt was diabetic, and then his mother became diabetic later in life, and she was a very dainty woman, certainly not "fat".


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[Unbeliever]

I was diagnosed !{purely by chance} 6 years ago now. I have never been overweight but there is a genetic link in the family.
I din't experience any strong synmptoms but once or twice in the previous en years I suspected I muight have diabetes.
The Drs all dismissed he idea.
When I collapsed with a food allergy my bgs were 32 I was told by my GP that I had probably been diabetic all my adult life and not to lose any more weight.
At my forst review he Nurse asked if I had been eating "whole packets of biscuits" just because the metformin had made absolutely no difference to my Hba1C.
I wonder why these people thik they have a right to paronise others in this way? Just like the poster above who was old it was b"because you are fat"..These people are not experts. Another nurse told me I was probably only slim because I had excreted alll the sugar in my urine! I was almost 60 and had always been slim.
Some time later when I was on large amounts of glimepiride which had no effect except to make me feel ravenously hunngry I told the doctor thatI kept finding myself eating without realising it. One day I even found myself eating a large piece of dry bread..
I found that quite disturbing but he seemed o find it hilarious!
A change of Practice and hings deteriorated further . I had developed retinopahy and they were rying to make me go onto insulin .
I just felt that it was wrong . I also developed macular oedema and he last straw was when a Nurse assure me that a particular drug would be safe for me despite this being explicitly against the NHS advice. It could have blinded me.
This was a very diffficult period for me as I had noone I coluld rust o help me control my diabees.
Fortunately my wonderful eye consultant {from the carrribean} helped me to see a Diabetologist and with his advice and my own discovery of low carbing I managed to take control of my own condition.

Well hen , Of course the Nurses and Drs completely changed their attitude. Any complaintts i had about anyone were listened to and coorrected. Any requests were granted. I can have as many strips as I want on prescription. I don't actually do this. I get the minimum amount from them just to keep it on my record that I am still tesing and buy the rest myself.
I was totally disgusted by my treatment and am very sorry to hear that he same sort of hing is sill going on.
I know here have been improvements in many places but what sort of professional reats people i n this way?

If you are from he Carribean LW then the HCPs should be aware that you have a much greater risk of developing diabees than other ethnic grops.
Not only is my specialist from the Carribean but I recently met another from this country who had worked in Trinidad for some years in ophalmology and said that almost all he eye disease there was dibetes related.

I just ink that some HCPs are just not interested in doing any more than he minimum and that it suits them to believe that T2s are to blame for theoir condition.

The term T" probably covers a multitude anyhow. One day i will be evident that this attitude was just lazy and ignorant but _ what to do in the meanime?

I remeber that I was advised o make complaints but its the last thing you want to do while you are sill ring to come to terms with - or obtain a correct dianosis. I think all that you can do is to keeep a record and when you do evenually find someone in your practice to ake you seriously then presen hem with your record.

I did this and the Dr I spoke to was shocked and morified . She took the information to her colleaues and my treatment changed enirely.

I am very sorry for anyone in this posiion - I hope there are much fewer than there used o be but yes- don't give up . kee on trying your GP if you can't talk to one try another and keep a record of all you have done to sort out the problem for yourself.

If things are really bad I suppose you cn approach he Pracice Manager but I would prefer o speak o a Dr - hats just me though.