Amount of carbohydrates to eat

[grammar11]

I was diagnosed with type II eight years ago and have been able to control by diet so far. I dont count carbohydrates as such, just try to limit as much as I can. I was wondering if anyone on here keeps to a certain amount per meal or per day ?

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi and welcome
I aim to be in ketosis all the time so aim for fewer than 20g of carbs per day to "guarantee" that.
Some people here have more than that up to maybe 100g per day (officially low carb is fewer than 130g per day).

 

[Daphne917]

Hi @grammar11 welcome to the forum. I probably average about 100g carbs per day and have managed to maintain an Hba1c between 34 and 37 for the last 4 years. I don’t count carbs per se but know what I can/cannot eat however I do look at the nutritional info if I have spotted something new that I would like to try and, if I decide to try it, usually test for a couple of times until I’m sure of it’s effect on my BS.

 

[Rachox]

Hi grammar and welcome.
Although you’re not new to diabetes but are new to the forum I’ll tag in @daisy1 for her welcome info post which has a section on carbohydrates which you may find useful. Personally I keep to under 50g carbs per day and I count everything and being a bit of a number geek, I record my daily intakes on spreadsheets.

 

[shelley262]

Hi and welcome
I work with a maximum of 30 g of carb a day and often less. I’ve averaged less than 20g of carb for last year and only recently gone up a little bit by eating more veg which I enjoy. I’ve been eating this low carb for almost a year now and it works well for me.
I did spent first 2 months working my way down the carbs in each meal - I was a high carb and low fat eater at the start so needed to take time working out best way to deal with lowering the the carbs @nd raising the fats as all my menus, meals and recipes were high carb and low-fat. Lowcarb highfat works though and now can’t imagine eating any more than 30g of carb a day. I feel so well and love my way of eating.
Hope this helps

 

[AloeSvea]

My understanding is that keto or low carbing folks with type two are very aware of how many carbs they are eating every day.

Once you are an old hand, as I see myself as, you know exactly how many carbs re in your favourite almond flour bun, in six blueberries, a teaspoon or dessertspoon of greek yoghurt etc etc. I am not a numbers person but I don't have any trouble keeping an eye on my carb load for the day, and keeping it in range.

The only way we know what level of carbs is right for us and our better blood glucose functioning is by watching health markers, most particularly blood glucose readings, and also insulin production (cheaply via c-peptide readings). This is of course done through blood testing, and on a daily/maintenance basis with home blood glucose meters.

This may or may not be associated with body fat or belly fat levels (ie liver fat deposits). Those for who it is (and there is an argument that it is true for all T2D to some degree) weight and waist size is one of the health markers to be considered re appropriate carb load.

How low to go, or how vigilant carb awareness, or carb counting is, or needs to be, at least at the beginning of treating with low-carbing, is also related to how severe one's kind of type two diabetes is. Those with moderate obesity or age related type two can, in my observation, get their blood glucose levels (and therefore insulin and FFA levels) down to normal without too much ado, going lower or low carb, which is wonderful news.

 

[daisy1]

@grammar11

Hello and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask questions when you need to and someone will help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[Deleted member 371625]

I have averaged around 170g of carbs per day for over a year now with no meds and my last HbA1c results were 32 and 31. FBG is consistent at 4.0 to 4.2. 2 hours pp is almost always under 5, only a little higher after a very carb rich meal.

 

[Geoffno6]

My understanding is that keto or low carbing folks with type two are very aware of how many carbs they are eating every day.

Once you are an old hand, as I see myself as, you know exactly how many carbs re in your favourite almond flour bun, in six blueberries, a teaspoon or dessertspoon of greek yoghurt etc etc. I am not a numbers person but I don't have any trouble keeping an eye on my carb load for the day, and keeping it in range.

The only way we know what level of carbs is right for us and our better blood glucose functioning is by watching health markers, most particularly blood glucose readings, and also insulin production (cheaply via c-peptide readings). This is of course done through blood testing, and on a daily/maintenance basis with home blood glucose meters.

This may or may not be associated with body fat or belly fat levels (ie liver fat deposits). Those for who it is (and there is an argument that it is true for all T2D to some degree) weight and waist size is one of the health markers to be considered re appropriate carb load.

How low to go, or how vigilant carb awareness, or carb counting is, or needs to be, at least at the beginning of treating with low-carbing, is also related to how severe one's kind of type two diabetes is. Those with moderate obesity or age related type two can, in my observation, get their blood glucose levels (and therefore insulin and FFA levels) down to normal without too much ado, going lower or low carb, which is wonderful news.

Hi @AloeSvea You mentioned low cost C peptide tests , how much is low cost and where would you get a low cost one? I got mine done by a private clinic (the NHS still don’t know whether I’m T1 or T2) and it was about £150 which seems quite high cost.

 

[grammar11]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the information.

 

[AloeSvea]

Hi @AloeSvea You mentioned low cost C peptide tests , how much is low cost and where would you get a low cost one? I got mine done by a private clinic (the NHS still don’t know whether I’m T1 or T2) and it was about £150 which seems quite high cost.

Ah. We don't live in the same country, let alone the same hemisphere - I am in Aotearoa/New Zealand. But as far as I understand - c-peptide tests are the cheaper option everywhere! As opposed to a fasting insulin test. (Goodness - 150 pounds! No wonder my doctors pause when I ask for this test.) (I asked for a second test this year recently, in order to know what my starting insulin level was before a big experiment.)

I know in my own socialised medicine regime, and also in Sweden where I have lived also, fasting insulin tests are not offered to T2 diabetics in any case. But I have been able to request c-peptides, as in being fully subsidised, in both my socialised medicine countries. I have a very stubborn T2, and I do a LOT of experimentation, and my doctors have been very supportive of the indirect insulin level testing via the c-peptide. (I would be surprised if they weren't, as I am medications-free, and brought my HBA1c down from the red zone to the pale orange and lemon zone with very little cost to my countries, outside of test strips. My kind of T2 can cost countries huge amounts if it gets to kidney damage territory, which is also amputation and wheelchair territory, at least here in NZ, as doctors are aware, but I think that too is the same everywhere - surgery, and kidney dialysis is high cost treatment.) (I hate to talk about the monetary costs of treatments, as it seems so ruthless, but we do all know that it is behind the decision as to what we can get subsidised or not within our socialised medicine systems, ditto with medical insurance companies if in the US? Cost/benefit analysis and all that. Horrible stuff.)

I don't understand why your system is not supporting you and your medical team to get your insulin levels really known! Wouldn't that be a crucial part of them being able to diagnose you properly? As T1 or T2? (as in - is your pancreas producing insulin.) It should not be costing you so much to know such a basic thing!

But saying that, it was some years of reading and researching that I learnt about the c-peptide myself, and got to ask for it, and then track it. This is a crying shame really - that it was not done automatically and then, you know, explained to me, rather than me having to find out myself and track it myself. But even though my doctors are really great, I still get the 'medications is inevitable' line from them, as terrific as they are. And I do not agree with them! . But only time will really tell.

 

[AloeSvea]

Sorry to go so off-topic in above. Yay low-carbing! .

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi @AloeSvea You mentioned low cost C peptide tests , how much is low cost and where would you get a low cost one? I got mine done by a private clinic (the NHS still don’t know whether I’m T1 or T2) and it was about £150 which seems quite high cost.

Might be cheaper to get a fasting insulin test done? £39 from medichecks.. I got the phlebotomist at my surgery to fill the vial from them when I was having my HbA1c and cholesterol draw done yesterday. In fact I'm getting the insulin resistance test done which is £49 as I wanted to check my codefree so did a finger prick test at the same time as the blood draw.
Phlebotomist was fine filling the medicheck vials although I didn't give her the option not too really... well it is my blood after all!
She seemed quite used to it. She signed and dated the vials and even popped them in the envelope for me so I just put them in the post.

 

[Geoffno6]

Might be cheaper to get a fasting insulin test done? £39 from medichecks.. I got the phlebotomist at my surgery to fill the vial from them when I was having my HbA1c and cholesterol draw done yesterday. In fact I'm getting the insulin resistance test done which is £49 as I wanted to check my codefree so did a finger prick test at the same time as the blood draw.
Phlebotomist was fine filling the medicheck vials although I didn't give her the option not too really... well it is my blood after all!
She seemed quite used to it. She signed and dated the vials and even popped them in the envelope for me so I just put them in the post.

Thx @AloeSvea and @bulkbiker I’ll arm myself with vials ready for my next blood test

 

[AloeSvea]

Is it that simple, and cheap-ish, @bulkbiker? Goodness! I thought it must be some deeply involved way expensive test, and that is why they are not doing it routinely for those with diabetes! I sit here quietly with my shock.

 

[Stephen Lewis]

Ah. We don't live in the same country, let alone the same hemisphere - I am in Aotearoa/New Zealand. But as far as I understand - c-peptide tests are the cheaper option everywhere! As opposed to a fasting insulin test. (Goodness - 150 pounds! No wonder my doctors pause when I ask for this test.) (I asked for a second test this year recently, in order to know what my starting insulin level was before a big experiment.)

I know in my own socialised medicine regime, and also in Sweden where I have lived also, fasting insulin tests are not offered to T2 diabetics in any case. But I have been able to request c-peptides, as in being fully subsidised, in both my socialised medicine countries. I have a very stubborn T2, and I do a LOT of experimentation, and my doctors have been very supportive of the indirect insulin level testing via the c-peptide. (I would be surprised if they weren't, as I am medications-free, and brought my HBA1c down from the red zone to the pale orange and lemon zone with very little cost to my countries, outside of test strips. My kind of T2 can cost countries huge amounts if it gets to kidney damage territory, which is also amputation and wheelchair territory, at least here in NZ, as doctors are aware, but I think that too is the same everywhere - surgery, and kidney dialysis is high cost treatment.) (I hate to talk about the monetary costs of treatments, as it seems so ruthless, but we do all know that it is behind the decision as to what we can get subsidised or not within our socialised medicine systems, ditto with medical insurance companies if in the US? Cost/benefit analysis and all that. Horrible stuff.)

I don't understand why your system is not supporting you and your medical team to get your insulin levels really known! Wouldn't that be a crucial part of them being able to diagnose you properly? As T1 or T2? (as in - is your pancreas producing insulin.) It should not be costing you so much to know such a basic thing!

But saying that, it was some years of reading and researching that I learnt about the c-peptide myself, and got to ask for it, and then track it. This is a crying shame really - that it was not done automatically and then, you know, explained to me, rather than me having to find out myself and track it myself. But even though my doctors are really great, I still get the 'medications is inevitable' line from them, as terrific as they are. And I do not agree with them! . But only time will really tell.

When I first started on insulin - 9 months ago - my specialist (a professor of endochrinology) told me to increase the dose by 4 units a day. With every increase in dose my BG went up by many points until it stabilised at a high dose. When I asked the specialist, "Did the BG readings increase because my body recognised the extra insulin and increased the production of glucogens or reduced the production of insulin." His answer was, "No...er...yes...er...the first no the second." I didn't even know about the c-peptide test until this thread and no doctor has suggested it. I live in Canada and I am not sure if the test is freely available but I will find out. My BG is now under control, my last A1C was 6.0 (42). I have reduced my insulin to 11 units per day by following a very reduced low carb diet - about 80-90 gms per day. I would love to know what my insulin production is as my pancreas is happy to produce lots of glucogens just as I wake up and I would like to be insulin free within 6 to 12 months then Metformin free.

 

[bulkbiker]

Is it that simple, and cheap-ish, @bulkbiker? Goodness! I thought it must be some deeply involved way expensive test, and that is why they are not doing it routinely for those with diabetes! I sit here quietly with my shock.

I know I think its completely mad.. But whne I asked a room with about 60 GP's in it at a conference in June not one had ever had the test carried out on the NHS and only 3 people in the room had ever had one done privately, me @CherryAA and Dr Campbell Murdoch (who had got his done via medichecks too i think)

 

[brassyblonde900]

…..

The only way we know what level of carbs is right for us and our better blood glucose functioning is by watching health markers, most particularly blood glucose readings, and also insulin production (cheaply via c-peptide readings). This is of course done through blood testing, and on a daily/maintenance basis with home blood glucose meters. .

There is a Cheap, at home way of knowing the level of insulin production.

...the information is at 20:46 into the video.

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes, I don't understand @Stephen Lewis, why your medical professionals did not test your own insulin production before putting you on insulin. It seems crazy to me! Or at the very least - not understanding the basics of how T2D works, and the different kinds of T2D.

I have 'SIRD' - severe insulin resistance diabetes - for example - which means my body creates too much insulin itself after decades of glucose toxicity and dysfunction and wrong signalling. If your pancreas is indeed no longer producing enough insulin itself, then you have 'SIDD' - severe insulin deficiency diabetes. (Types care of the Swedes.) Most type two folks have MOD and MARD - obesity related and age related diabetes. If you do in fact have a MOD and MARD and not SIDD your health care professionals have been doing you a disservice, as the treatments are very different. MOD and MARD respond exceedingly well to lower carbing, and are the folks in here you see have their diabetes resolved/in remission in as little as three months of treating with diet. You absolutely need to find out yourself then, imho, what type you have, so you can work out your treatment regime. And yes, that means going back to your doctor and telling them how important it is that you know how your body is doing on its own, with tests. So you can then both choose the best treatment for the type of type two you have.

There are 'do it yourself' ways of testing and tracking your own health markers, which was my way of figuring it out (and getting this confirmed by my trusty GP.) (And yes, after I ordered my own insulin production tests via the c peptide reading.) A tape measure goes a long way when it comes to working out liver fat! For instance. (Using a waist/height ratio measurement.)

I am very sorry that such a now common disease/dysfunction is being badly diagnosed, when the correct diagnosis is so important to what the treatment should be, and therefore our gaining better health.

 

[AloeSvea]

Thanks @brassyblonde900 - very interesting. That scientist is way more generous to wrong-minded T2D diagnoses than I am! . (He makes the point that doctors are paid to see patients, not to read scientific papers. Good point!) (But I still don't forgive for it too easily....)

Very interesting to see ketones readings as an additional way to home test ones own insulin production! I didn't understand so clearly that higher ketones means lower insulin, as that is just the way the human/mammal body works.