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Anyone stopped medication against Doc/nurses advice?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Shoelace1973, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. Shoelace1973

    Shoelace1973 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I have been on both types of Metformin, and currently on the slow release ones.
     
  2. Squire Fulwood

    Squire Fulwood Type 2 · Expert

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    I always notify DN that I have stopped taking (whatever) so that we have no secrets. My control of my type 2 with diet is significantly better than controlling it with pills.
     
  3. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    It really is not your nurse's responsibility, it is yours. If metformin is affecting you so badly and in particular is preventing you from eating healthily, then it is doing you harm rather than benefit.

    My advice is simple, start a strict low carb high fat diet, stick to healthy natural fats, olive oil, avocado, butter, coconut oil, fat in meats, fatty fish. Eat plenty of leafy green veg and salad and any source of unprocessed protein (meat, fish, eggs, cheese). Have no bread, pasta, rice, cakes, sugar, soft drinks. Check your waking blood glucose every day and record it as well as everything you eat. If you are self funding bg strips they can get expensive before and after every meal, but if you are eating very low carb as described, there should be nothing in your diet to spike your blood glucose. Sign up to the low carb guide on here, or look up 'the diet doctor' who has excellent simple to follow diet plans.

    Continue until your next HbA1c - and I would expect a significant improvement. Then, if your nurse is not prepared to have a reasonable discussion with you, bearing in mind that you are the patient and it is YOUR decision what drugs you take, ask for your future appointments to be with the GP. I agree with the previous poster, be assertive, polite, quietly spoken and steadfast. You have tried the drugs alternative, you did not like the effects and you want to explore other alternatives. It is your right to do so. Loads and loads of people have achieved just what you are aiming for, read all the positive stories on this very forum!
     
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  4. spendercat

    spendercat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been diabetic for six years and in my old practise I never met the doctor. I adopted the LCHF diet because I was diagnosed six weeks before I could get to see the nurse and I had to do something!
    It worked so well I refused any medication including statins, much to the fury of the nurse, who was utterly uncooperative for the next four years.
    I moved two years ago and I have met my new doctor twice. I have seen a nurse in his practise who is not a diabetic specialist twice. She never comments much on anything, but she checks my feet and seems to approve of whatever I am doing if it keeps the BG down.
    Frankly, I suspect that I know more about diabetes than they do. My doctor is very good but he is a generalist, he knows quite a bit about an awful lot of things. Whereas I know an awful lot about one thing? My own body.
    He thinks all diabetics should take Metformin, due to its general protective effects, but I don't seem to tolerate Metformin at all, and I am frightened of taking the Glipizide he gave me as I know it increases the chance of a fatal heart attack by 240%.
    If I let them guide me without thinking for myself. I would be right up the creek without a paddle.
     
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  5. MikeTurin

    MikeTurin Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Only one a bit of advice: if you aren't taking the medicine your doctor has given you, is important to tell him (or her) possibly explaining why.
    If the GP gives you a cure and the cure doesn't work because you are doing something different, she could decide to change the cure or that her hypotheses on the illness is wrong and radically change the cure.
    Besides that if one hasn't trust on his doctor I think it's way better to seek another advice and a new MD.
     
  6. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    This sounds pedantic, but doctor's don't give you 'cures' - and I think most doctors following traditional guidelines don't expect to be offering a 'cure' they are offering a treatment for a condition that they believe is incurable and progressive.

    I agree that it is wrong to lie to your doctor, but with something like a 3 month gap between appointments, try the treatment that you prefer, monitor the results carefully, and go back with the results. Personally, I keep all my readings on a spread sheet, and produce a lovely report with graphs before every appointment - and the results speak for themselves. in my case this no longer applies to blood glucose which I only test weekly now as I am a 'lifer' on LCHF and I do not experience high BG any more, but I also choose a less conventional treatment for self monitoring / dosing anti-coagulants and my excellent management speaks for itself.

    If you want to choose to be pro-active and manage your diabetes with diet and exercise and maybe fasting, with many GP practices you have no option but 'go it alone' and wait for them to catch up with the science!
     
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  7. MikeTurin

    MikeTurin Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Cure or treatment, seems to me that is a lexical question question. If you aren't following your GP advice on medication and don't tell him and nothing changes, the problem, in general, and not only for diabetes, is that wrong conclusions could be made and this could cause other wrong and not useful treatments.

    I think with diabetes you MUST be proactive. By the way the official cure and diet worked well for me and the diabetes stopped, with fasting BG (3.9 mmol/l monday morning) and HBa1c well in the normal range for non diabetics. I could say that following the medical advice and being informed worked for me. I know that because everyone is different maybe this will not work for everybody and that following a controlled calories diet its HARD (thank you very much - I know it). But IF one refuses the therapy given by the GP, it's way better to tell him or her: it's simply possible that an altrenative treatment could be used or it could be an useful information anyway.
     
  8. ChrisSamsDad

    ChrisSamsDad Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It all depends when you test it - there are different situations under which you would expect different rates, (the HbA1c measured the average over the last 4-6 weeks). There's fasting, one hour after a meal and two hours after a meal. You don't say at what time you're getting the 9.7 level. I would say that's quite high for any measure you take - you're possibly eating too many carbs.

    As for Metformin - many people struggle with it at first, but it does seem that the side-effects ease off over time, especially with the slow release version. Diet - especially eating lower carb - and exercise will help, but Metformin is a very safe, useful drug, so I'd keep taking it - in fact, having been on a low carb diet for 6 months, my HbA1c is down to normal, non-diabetic levels, and I'm still taking it, it's always going to help in addition to Diet & Exercise. My advice would be to keep taking it if you can, but talk to your doctor anyway.
     
  9. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    So presumably you can tolerate Metformin, is that included in your 'following the medical advice'? @Shoelace1973 says that she cannot tolerate metformin, her Nurse is not listening to her concerns, and by my understanding is bullying her into continuing this form of treatment, when there is plenty of evidence that strictly controlled carbohydrate diet, with increased exercise can be a totally effective way of managing T2 diabetes. Nobody is suggesting a 'one size fits all approach'. Many people are happy with standard medical advice, others are not. The medical profession and specialist nurses need to catch up. Dr David Unwin, on his tweets, reports the success of a patient reversing his T2 diabetes in 38 days with diet and exercise alone. Just because some doctors and some nurses do not understand this, should people under their care have to struggle with a medication that is adversely effecting them that they could well do without?

    Personally, I prefer a non medication solution to most things, if there is one. And I am confident enough to explain this to my doctor, and he respects me enough to encourage me to try out the alternatives. Not everybody is so lucky.
     
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  10. Shoelace1973

    Shoelace1973 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I've been on Metformin for 2 months - that should be long enough to see if I can tolerate it?

    I've not been able to really eat healthily or even try lo carb as any veggies make my stomach 10000 times worse. But now, because Met isn't deemed enough, I'm having to take something extra (not sure what yet).

    But yes "Metformin is what I need to be on" I'm told.

    Blood sugar of 9.7 was fasting, in the morning. But they always seem to be way higher then - even if low the night before?
     
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  11. MikeTurin

    MikeTurin Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I use metformin an I tolerate it.
    The higher order problem is that there is this nurse that despite the negative effects of the treatment doesn't try to change it.
    The solution is to search a more capable nurse that could actually listen to the patients' problem an change the therapy accordingly.

    Agree. They should help the patient to find the best treatment for them an not print a boilerplate response.
     
  12. Nicksu

    Nicksu Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that most nurses aren't specialists (despite them saying they are). They do not have the same training as the doctor (and the problem is that a lot of them still see the doctor as God and quote them like one!). I was originally started on the dreaded Meformin and Gliclazade. Two weeks in, my tummy let me know that it did not like the Metformin. Have been taking 40mg of Glic twice a day and doing LCHF. The result is that in the 8 weeks since diagnosis - and a blood test last Thursday, I have got my HBAC1 down to 7 (which as I understand it is on the lower end of pre-diabetic). My aim is to get to the point when I can say to the docs, when can I start coming off the Gliclazade? I admit I have another 3-4 stone to go but hopefully I can get this done within the next 12 months. I will be trying the 8 week diet (as mentioned in a certain Blood Sugar Diet book), but either way, its a wake up call and a plan for the future. I went for my first appointment at the diabetes clinic yesterday - still wasn't given any information when I was there. And they wonder whey we frequent these forums?! Surely a more informed patient is a one who has been given the tools to make a better decision?

    Fingers crossed for all those wanting to get off meds (my diabetes was caused by steroids for another condition, so one less pill is always a better thing).
     
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  13. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    The record keeping is what I did, and in my opinion is the best guidance. My understanding of metformin is that it assists glucose take up in your cells. Other ways to achieve glucose reduction in the blood is via exercise (the government guideslines in this case look like a good starting point of 30 minutes a day), and diet - low carb high fat. The low carb programme on this site is a great resource and diet doctor is superb also. If you do keep metformin or not, diet and exercise is a good idea for anyone able to do this, HiiT is great if you are challenged and fast walking if you hate running.
     
  14. prancer53

    prancer53 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Firstly statins after 1 week as I teach dance but statins gave me muscle weakness so impossible to teach dance & to demonstrate with weak muscles! Secondly medication to reduce blood pressure as it made me very, very ill & it turned out that I had low blood pressure, not high!! I didn't need either medication & was only put on both because it was recommended that GP s put all diabetics on both medications after a certain age.

    Have had type 1 for 55 years so am insulin dependent (5 jabs & numerous tests daily) and have no complications. Trained as a dancer and worked in Italian Opetta Company as a professional dancer. Have had 2 children --both normal weights (7 lbs & 6 lbs 6 ozs). Went to uni at 47 and graduated at 50. Then did post graduate certificate in education with qualified teacher status to teach GCSE & A level dance. Was head of department for dance at a school & head of performing arts at a post 16 college. Then in 2011 Mr Gove took dance & drama out of both core & non core curriculum so have done supply teaching since. Also organise and deliver youth activities on board Queen Mary 2 (profile piccie was last year on Britannia in Tenerife) & Britannia during school holidays. Life is pretty busy--but it keeps the sugar down (which is why I was sent to dance lessons originally)!!!!! Only 17 months to retirement at 64 1/2 (unless government sneakily raise my retirement age again) ---and I can't wait to begin the next stage of my life......!!!!!

    Coming off statins (at 53--10 years ago) & blood pressure meds do not seem to have done me any harm--blood pressure still low. Also on levothyroxine--quite a hefty dose.......!!!!
     
    #34 prancer53, Oct 11, 2016 at 7:53 PM
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  15. prancer53

    prancer53 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Got it in one! Shame DSN doesn't think things through....!!!!
     
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  16. Changezi1

    Changezi1 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Yes
    Doctor told to take insulin but i didn't take it even I didn't take any medicine
    I'm feeling fine
    I daily excersice and on diet
     
  17. Changezi1

    Changezi1 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Yes
    Doctor told to take insulin but i didn't take it even I didn't take any medicine
    I'm feeling fine
    I daily excersice and on diet
     
  18. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I discovered the effectiveness of LCHF, intermittent fasting and raw puer tea within a week of diagnosis...so I had taken only 2 tabs of the TrajentaDuo that was prescribed to me...I gave the rest of my unconsumed medication to my sister who has been Type 2 for a few years...

    But the key point is that you need to be monitoring your Blood Glucose closely and be seeing improvements if you want to stay medication free. If your glucose levels spins out of control...then it is better for you to take your medication/insulin.
     
  19. ChrisSimm

    ChrisSimm Type 2 · Newbie

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    Hi ...YES and I think that it's high time our health professionals woke up to the fact that we are not all the same and whilst some Type 2 Diabetics may not be able to control their diabetes without drugs, some can and will, with or without their support. ALL diabetics deserve their support, guidance and encouragement, and people with this disease should not have to hide from their disapproval or be denied effective help.
     
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  20. Shoelace1973

    Shoelace1973 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Thank you all for your helpful replies.

    I think Dr & nurses are tied by NICE guidelines - if LCHF isn't on there, then they can't comment or advise it.

    So it really just boils down to eating as little sugar or carbs as possible, to get there!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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