dannyw
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Have you spoke to Trudi then or is this just a wild guess ? Still, you can't keep good information quiet for long.
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Balance - March April - Sat fat advice - May June also
- Thread starter IanD
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I agree @Sid Bonkers, I did not like using the 'fad' word, but that's what it seems like to me and to this reviewer http://www.diabeteschoices.org.uk/2015/01/22/review-eat-fat-by-dr-trudi-deakin/
I have spoken to Trudi by email (when I sent her my results as requested in a thread on this forum). I must say she seems very open and honest to me. I like her and am grateful to her for the personal message she sent me (and others).
I just did an internet search of Cheshire East's catalogue and none of their libraries are shown as having the book, nor any other book written by this lady. I am pleased that you are pleased for me.
dannyw
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Cool, my advice still stands though. If you've bothered to take the time to search for it, why not just order it ? Unless you have no interest in it at all ? If so, why spend so much time searching for it, looking at reviews and posting about it ? Strange. If I was happy with my diet and control and held good BG levels, I certainly wouldn't waste as much time researching and discussing something I had no interest in and held no belief in
'I think you will also find' that there is a forum rule about not being defamatory about other forum members....
Daibell
Master
Hi Sid. I know you won't agree but much of the (suspect?) research evidence presented to us over the last few decades comes from University professors and departments part funded by pharma and food companies. Whilst these people may not benefit directly their research departments could only continue with this funding. I will continue to treat this research with some suspicion unless the evidence is shown to be scientically valid.
Likewise are you not suspicious that this apparent volte face from Doc Deakin coincides with the publication of her book?
I don't understand what you are saying. Her book is part of the turnaround. If you were her and found you had been advising people incorrectly in the past, what would you do? a) Keep quiet and still pretend the old science was correct? Or b) come clean about it and try to help people? I presume from what you have said on this thread your answer would be a)?
I find it so refreshing when doctors and scientists can admit they were wrong, don't you?
I bought her book and it was money well spent
??And let diabetics still carry on with bad advice on diet in the meantime? Don't tell me....you're a GP!
I am not a GP, but as I am constrained from criticising Dr Deacon and her views, I will not.
Heathenlass
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I see what you are saying. For many people the NHS advice is an improvement on what they would normally eat
A Diabetic Specialist Nurse friend told me that she was no longer shocked by hearing people say that they never, ever, ate a vegetable or a piece of fruit. 
The problem lies with the nutritional advice given out was not originally intended for diabetics, but the population at large . However, it included advice on fats that originated in some flawed and biased studies that originated in the US. I won't trundle on listing these studies, how they came about and what is intrinsicly wrong with them, but for diabetics and people with other health conditions, it opened a Pandora's box of problems.
Fat on its own does not cause weight gain, even though gram for gram it has a higher calorific value, it is when it is combined with carbohydrate it becomes a problem with weight gain. It's obviously not always possible to not combine the two food groups, but for an example of high fat/ high carb food, think of the likely culprits, such as pizza, processed biscuits, cakes etc. For the population as a whole, the more frequent to "usual" consumption of foods such as these is bad news, leading to an epidemic of obesity and other Heath issues.
Fat in the diet plays an important part, and restricting fat can cause nutritional deficiencies and various organ and system malfunctions. Saturated fat has had bad press, solely on the basis of the studies mentioned above, but the real issue with fats are the problems caused by highly processed fats . Simple is better.
The role of carbohydrate in the diabetic diet is another issue. What is being recommended in the current advice is quite a high level of carbohydrate in proportion to the other food groups. The lower fat alternatives that are advised are , because of the process they undergo, higher in carbohydrate than the full fat versions whilst avoiding low fat .Carbohydrate converts to glucose much faster than either protein or fats, and therefore the glucose levels are elevated to dangerous levels for far too long in a diabetic person. It's those starchy carbohydrates that people on low carb tend to avoid. How and what to avoid is very much a personal thing, by eating to their meter, one person could find that they tolerate apples quite well, another could find that apples spike them in to the teens. It's trial and error. It doesn't mean that fruit is automatically forbidden.
In your example, you mentioned bacon. For example, if the same person on one day ate two weetabix for breakfast, and found that their glucose levels at the two hour post prandial testing was in the 20's and on the next day had bacon and eggs, but found their post prandial levels to be 6.5, which choice would a person make if their main concern was to maintain their blood glucose levels in an acceptable range, and avoid feeling unwell at present, and avoid long term diabetic complications ? A dietry load of carbohydrate on a person whose ability to deal with glucose is compromised in the first place just doesn't make sense.
Low carb doesn't have to involve spreading cheese with lard and eaten with a side order of cream , unless someone actively desires that
. The carbs in my diet come from vegetables and berries, pulses and legumes and nuts, the fat from natural sources that are not procesed to become artificially low fat . It may not be everyone's idea of a tasty diet ( but it is!) but it works. For me.Apologies for the lecture , by the way
Signy
@Heathenlass No need to apologise for the lecture and you will be pleased to hear that I agree with your approach vis a vis vegetables, berries pulses etc. I also have gone back to full fat milk on my breakfast granola and double cream (and granola) on my weekend strawberries, blueberries and raspberries.
At diagnosis I realised that I was over-eating (nearly 19 stones at 5 ft 9 ins!!!) so I had to cut everything back, and ended up eating food that kept the hunger pangs at bay. As a Type 2 diabetic the most important thing for me was to lose weight and if the weight had not shifted then I would have tried alternative foods. In the event I was able to eat a fairly carb laden diet, so in that respect I was lucky. The advantages of the carb over the fat is that one seemed to get more for your money, in that fat has twice the calories of carbs. But I can see that someone else might prefer a fat laden diet, and if that makes them lose weight, then fair enough.
There is no doubt that in the 15 months since diagnosis my consumption of carbs has dropped. Out have gone potatoes and white bread on which I used to gorge. In have come modest amounts of sweet potatoes, loads of vegs and modest amounts of wholegrain bread. Red meat has likewise gone replaced by oily fish, salmon and sardines. My staple food is my homemade spicy vegetable soup.
I take your point about the Weetabix example, but the reality is often a more difficult choice. I can recall reading on this forum recently someone newly diagnosed asking whether porridge was suitable for breakfast, he was advised (without any apparent irony) that coffee with double cream would be the better choice. That can't be the better choice, can it? It might get your glucose level down, but nutritionally at what cost?
Anyway we can agree that plenty of vegetables is the way forward.
At diagnosis I realised that I was over-eating (nearly 19 stones at 5 ft 9 ins!!!) so I had to cut everything back, and ended up eating food that kept the hunger pangs at bay. As a Type 2 diabetic the most important thing for me was to lose weight and if the weight had not shifted then I would have tried alternative foods. In the event I was able to eat a fairly carb laden diet, so in that respect I was lucky. The advantages of the carb over the fat is that one seemed to get more for your money, in that fat has twice the calories of carbs. But I can see that someone else might prefer a fat laden diet, and if that makes them lose weight, then fair enough.
There is no doubt that in the 15 months since diagnosis my consumption of carbs has dropped. Out have gone potatoes and white bread on which I used to gorge. In have come modest amounts of sweet potatoes, loads of vegs and modest amounts of wholegrain bread. Red meat has likewise gone replaced by oily fish, salmon and sardines. My staple food is my homemade spicy vegetable soup.
I take your point about the Weetabix example, but the reality is often a more difficult choice. I can recall reading on this forum recently someone newly diagnosed asking whether porridge was suitable for breakfast, he was advised (without any apparent irony) that coffee with double cream would be the better choice. That can't be the better choice, can it? It might get your glucose level down, but nutritionally at what cost?
Anyway we can agree that plenty of vegetables is the way forward.
Heathenlass
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Actually, @Syd , your diet sounds great and you seem to have done really well
As in everything, it's horses for courses in every diet choice. I prefer to describe mine as " Low Carb Higher Fat" as I can't seem to tolerate much higher levels than naturally occur in everyday cooking . I do have a weakness for cheese though ! And cream on berries 
I see your point on the breakfast Weetabix/ coffee thing, but that is one persons point of view, not necessarily shared by all low Carbers . The most nutritional and palatable answer probably lies somewhere in the middle between the two . If you really want cereal type breakfasts, investigate making your own healthier option.
By and large I find that the sticking point for many people is a) choosing convenience food over cooking from scratch and b) leaving their comfort zone in trying new foods and different ways of using and substituting others for old staples. That's where books such as Dr. Deakin's and others on low CARB
cooking come in as useful. To give people ideas and skills to eat more healthily .
Any chance of sharing that soup recipe ?
Signy
Edited for blooper ! Please put down the pitchforks and flaming torches, and return peacefully to your homes
As in everything, it's horses for courses in every diet choice. I prefer to describe mine as " Low Carb Higher Fat" as I can't seem to tolerate much higher levels than naturally occur in everyday cooking . I do have a weakness for cheese though !
And cream on berries I see your point on the breakfast Weetabix/ coffee thing, but that is one persons point of view, not necessarily shared by all low Carbers . The most nutritional and palatable answer probably lies somewhere in the middle between the two . If you really want cereal type breakfasts, investigate making your own healthier option.
By and large I find that the sticking point for many people is a) choosing convenience food over cooking from scratch and b) leaving their comfort zone in trying new foods and different ways of using and substituting others for old staples. That's where books such as Dr. Deakin's and others on low CARB
cooking come in as useful. To give people ideas and skills to eat more healthily .Any chance of sharing that soup recipe ?
Signy
Edited for blooper ! Please put down the pitchforks and flaming torches, and return peacefully to your homes
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Actually, @Syd , your diet sounds great and you seem to have done really well
As in everything, it's horses for courses in every diet choice. I prefer to describe mine as " Low Carb Higher Fat" as I can't seem to tolerate much higher levels than naturally occur in everyday cooking . I do have a weakness for cheese though !
I see your point on the breakfast Weetabix/ coffee thing, but that is one persons point of view, not necessarily shared by all low Carbers . The most nutritional and palatable answer probably lies somewhere in the middle between the two . If you really want cereal type breakfasts, investigate making your own healthier option.
By and large I find that the sticking point for many people is a) choosing convenience food over cooking from scratch and b) leaving their comfort zone in trying new foods and different ways of using and substituting others for old staples. That's where books such as Dr. Deakin's and others on low fat cooking come in as useful. To give people ideas and skills to eat more healthily .
Any chance of sharing that soup recipe ?
Signy
HI @Heathenlass Was the reference to 'low fat cooking' a slip of the pen?
I found breakfast the hardest meal to crack. I started off with Special K thinking that would be ok, but it wasn't. Tried porridge but not much better. Ended up eating granola and then taking 30 mins walking exercise and that seemed to do the trick. In fact it took about six weeks to lose about 20 lbs weight and once that had been done, the blood sugar levels dropped to a reasonable level after my granola breakfast and walk.
I think in the last 15 months I have brought about 5 ready meals in total, as opposed to 4 or 5 week prior to diagnosis, and agree that cooking fresh ingredients from scratch is best.
I have adapted this recipe http://www.booths.co.uk/recipe/spiced-red-lentil-and-butternut-squash-soup/ You can buy hot or sweet smoked paprika and as I like hot spicy foods I use the hot smoked paprika. I have not bothered with the yoghurt garnish, so cannot vouch for that.
I had forgotten the cheese element of my diet. I usually (provided I have not had berries and cream) finish the day off with a supper of extra-hot spicy Mexicana cheese on some rough oat biscuits
Paul59
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, is before we were told fat is bad for us people were in better health than nowadays, alot worked harder than alot do nowadays with all the technology taking over & back along what they ate was where they got the energy from to keep going & you only have to look at the health of other countries where their diets contain higher amounts of fats, they have far less health issues than the carb crunching lower fat countries are.
When it comes to the amount of fat well it's down to not over doing it, moderation is best, over do anything & there will be problems.
When it comes to the amount of fat well it's down to not over doing it, moderation is best, over do anything & there will be problems.
daddys1
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Hi Syd, I have read the whole thread and found it very interesting as I don't believe you are eating much different to me, yet if someone ask me, I say I'm on a LCHF, but when I tell people that, I then say this does not mean I eat fat at every opportunity.
I just eat normal, used to cut the fat off meat, don't do that now, used to have spreads, now have butter, not worried about having egg and bacon 2/3 times a week where before it was just once, but eat tons of veg, lots of berries, lots of nuts have cream & full fat yogurt oh and some Seed sensations bread, 1 slice only 3/4 a week mainly ryvitas but have fish nearly every lunchtime and often on an evening.
The fats normal the carbs are low.
In fact from what you have described you eat, except for the Granola, I only have a sprinkle on Yogurt and the Rough Oat biscuits my diet is no different to you except what we call it.
Neil
Paul59
Well-Known Member
That's basically what my fat intake is like aswell, nothing over the top just as anyone would have eating a normal diet without all the lowfat ****.Hi Syd, I have read the whole thread and found it very interesting as I don't believe you are eating much different to me, yet if someone ask me, I say I'm on a LCHF, but when I tell people that, I then say this does not mean I eat fat at every opportunity.
I just eat normal, used to cut the fat off meat, don't do that now, used to have spreads, now have butter, not worried about having egg and bacon 2/3 times a week where before it was just once, but eat tons of veg, lots of berries, lots of nuts have cream & full fat yogurt oh and some Seed sensations bread, 1 slice only 3/4 a week mainly ryvitas but have fish nearly every lunchtime and often on an evening.
The fats normal the carbs are low.
In fact from what you have described you eat, except for the Granola, I only have a sprinkle on Yogurt and the Rough Oat biscuits my diet is no different to you except what we call it.
Neil
As said it's only when you go ott that probs occur & that's most likely where all the early day hype came from, from people over doing it.
daddys1
Well-Known Member
I think it's unfortunate the name, the high for some, scares people, yet they may already be on what some others would call a High Fat Diet, I'm definitely Low Carb but High Fat as many people perceive NO, I'm normal fat.
Neil
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