Bernstein

[ally5555]

just look at docs narrow minded thread on the lc forum - very childish doc and very narrow minded and just why people are fed up with this lc over zealous approach!

You lc fine but leave other people alone !

By the way did I analyse your diet ?

 

[sugarless sue]

With all due respect to all participants in this thread,just because you do not low carb there is no need to disrespect either low carbing or the people who advocate it.As is said ad nauseum on this forum ,what works for one does not necessarily work for another but all points of view should be respected.

 

[ally5555]

sue - forgive me for being annoyed but after the rubbish I have had thrown at me from all over the place , altho mostly from lc, I am just asking for respect both ways and docs post was a little silly!

 

[sugarless sue]

Respect should indeed work both ways.Let us get back to helping and supporting each other in fighting a common enemy,diabetes.

 

[cjohnson]

'low carbohydrate is the only thing that allows us to get numers in single figures'

I must be the exception to prove the rule then because I don't low carb and my bs is usually in single figures - varying from 4.6 to 7.0 depending on what I have eaten last thing at night unfortunately got a passion for rich tea biscuits!!!

Chris J

 

[jumbleannie]

Mmmmm buiscuits. Yummy.

 

[Osidge]

I have just been over to another place to see the report that we are all bickering over here. Having read through this thread the only discord appears to be caused by low-carb brothers and sisters. It also appears that we are being moderated in a way that the other place is not. We get told off for situations caused by low-carbers as if we were children. Were I a conspiracy theorist I might be wondering why that is. Yes I hear the oft proclaimed "we are all different" but my experience is that it is generally used here as a mantra to hide a "we are right and everyone else is wrong belief". I am a member of a Parkinson's Disease Forum and it is worlds part from here. People really do accept that everyone is different and get on with supporting each other. The aim there is to do whatever each needs to live a life that is not a one of evangelism for one's own orthodoxy but is the best that can be obtained. Despite what lies ahead of me, I always leave that forum on an up. Here that is not the case. I feel caught up in a constant battle - not good for my stress levels and my PD.

Sorry to feel that I have to write this but needed to get it off my chest

Doug

 

[Administrator]

Hello Doug,

I'm sorry you feel like that as it is not why we set this place up. From long years of observing forums, I think this one has taken a predictable track. Initially, this forum was one of the closest and most supportive forums I've come across. Unfortunately, as the membership grew, groups and cliques formed who do hold strong views and argue with each other. Now it seems that there is a lot of hostility that may obscure the fact that this is one of the largest and most helpful diabetes communities on the Internet. The last thing the forum wants is to cause stress to anyone. Every member or moderator is free to use the forum as much or as little as he or she wishes.

Best regards,

Admin

 

[hanadr]

I started my answer to this( as a thread on Bernstein, not as a personal crusade for low carb diet) rather rudely, but have revised my thinking. I wish to pick up on a silly comment here. How on Earth can anyone who works as a full time Physician at an age when many people are retired, be considered to be hypo nearly all the time? At least a couple of people have posted that in this thread. Since hypos are disabling, that obviously isn't possible. If someone functions perfectly well on a BG which is lower than yours, they are not necessarily hypo. Lowered BG, without impairment of function isn't hypo. It's just a matter of being used to it. Bernstein states in his book that his HbA1c is consistently 4.5%. that's about the same as Fergus and one or two others.
A BG below 4 mmol/l isn't necessarily hypo and we know from this thread that a lot of uncontrolled diabetics get disabling symptoms at well above this level.
I can function perfectly well at 3.4, but then I run below 6 pretty much all the time. If I used more medication, I could probably train myself to function at even lower levels.
4 mmol/l is just a convenient number, because someone had to assign a number for reference. Hypo is a set of symptoms. I have seen some some health care professionals react to a below 4 BG like Chicken Little ( You know the one" The sky is falling!), when the patient felt fine.

 

[Thirsty]

Speaking for myself, I quickly start to feel very ill with any level much below 4 and normally I get results between 5 and 6. It seems that a lot of people don't get a similar "warning" and I've seen some pretty frightening episodes as a result; comas, fits, violence etc. I'd say if you're on insulin or certain oral meds, it's just as important to make sure you're getting enough carbs as it is to avoid too many.

Without wishing to fall out with anyone, or cause undue alarm, I do think this is a valid concern when it comes to low-carbing.

 

[bunty]

I own Bernstein's book and have naturally read it right through - then i chucked it aside because i dont want to follow his formula. I wanted to read it first though in case it did change my thinking.

The idea that one can achieve single figures only by adhering to a low-carb diet is misleading. For a start, each person's idea of what constitutes 'low carb' differs and our bodies are not identical and therefore each of us reacts differently to varying methods of control.

I have never low-carbed and have always been in single figures; currently my record stands at 5.6; 5.4; 5.4 and 5.4.

However, i do *limit* my carbs and i exercise and i test fairly frequently.

Bernstein offers a very tight strategy which works great for those who are willing and able to follow a strictly regimented eating life-style and good luck to the, say i!

I'm a firm believer in the Try it and See and If it Works for You, Do It strategy.

I would say, read his book and make up your own mind. Give it a try if you want to and see how you fare. But dont be persuaded that his is the only way nor that to choose against his methods is to be foolhardy. Personally, i found his whole strategy to be anathema to how i want to conduct my life but hey ho, each to their own.

bunty

 

[hanadr]

Hi
Bunty
I think you are right.
I do a sort of "Relaxed low carb" I do stray occasionally. However.not all the Non-low carbers do like you and try it and see. Loads look and decie it's too hard without even trying and then some decide to be rude to those who find it helpful.
My choice was to minimise medication.
the longer i can manage on very little, the better I'll feel about it. I don't want to get on to the medicines escalator.
It's too easy to think that just by going on to insulin, all control problems will vanish. It rapidly climbs up to megadoses, which inevitably cause weight problems and thus it goes. I'm planning to avoid insulin for as long as possible and U100 for ever.
As to lack of hypo awareness, that is when someone is going hypo and isn't capable of functioning and doesn't realise until too late.
I function perfectly at 3.5. No problems at all.
I too have seen the effects of SEVERE hypo in my T1 husband, over the 35 years or so he's had it. I have also seen the same man perfectly OK and functioning normally at 3.5. I think the level where EVERYbody has trouble, is well below 4. You need to dop below 3 for unconsciousness in most cases and below 2 for fits.

 

[bunty]

Hanadr,

i wont enter into any discussion involving 'low-carbers' or 'non-low-carbers'. Instead, i offer my thoughts to any and all, without slotting readers into one or other camp.

The issue of how low one can operate does intrigue me. Why is it of merit to 'function' at 3.anything, when the margin that affords is so slight as to risk problems? Surely it is better to conduct one's life at a b.g. level suitably pegged to allow a drop, for whatever reason, that wont present risk?

Bernstein seems to have written a book that is regarded with great esteem by many. I am not among them. To me, he wants the diabetic to lead a life apart from the norm whereas i want to lead my life very much within the norm, as far as i am comfortably and safely able.

As with many things, there are always those who want to compete, if only against themselves, and those for whom life's race isnt a race but a ramble. Guess which type i am?

bunty

 

[Patch]

Before I stared taking medication for my T2 Diabetes, my fasting readings were often < 3mmol. Usaully between 2.6 and 2.8. This was when I first started lo-carbing, and I was doing serious exercise every night.

I didn't experience any adverse effects of low BG. Just another example of how everyone is different...

We need to be aware that it's not the value of the reading that causes problems,it's the range/fluctuations of the readings. I'm sure that if my BG was 12+ at bed time, and THEN < 3 the following morning I'd feel the effects...

 

[mullaneder]

low carbs i thought i was in the wrong forum

 

[Patch]

Bit bitchy, wasn't it?

 

[mullaneder]

no i dont think so i really dont want low carb preaching in this forum as well its not what it was set up for and from previous posts i am not the only one

 

[timo2]

Hi all,

Can I ask that people remember this before posting here:

If you low-carb and wish to debate/discuss low-carbing issues, stick to the low-carb diabetes diet forum. However contrary to your opinion some of the threads may be, please keep this area of the forum free for non low-carbers. Consistent misuse of this forum is a banning offence.

Regards,

Admin

Many thanks,
timo.

 

[candi-girl]

I've got his book and have flicked through it. Don't sound my idea of fun I must say. Plus I don't like many foods so if I did what he did I'd die. I'm all for the carbs and I'm having a fully loaded carb pizza for lunch tomorrow. I will do a split bolus of insulin on my pump and I will be fine

 

[mullaneder]

im from ireland and its actually the law that you have to have potatos for your breakfast lunch tea and of course dessert :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: