Carbohydrates - Food of the Devil?

[Listlad]

No need both types are already competing at the same games. Stephen Phinney has stated many times that he cannot disclose some names he trains, I cannot site another trainer off the top of my head who trains Olympic level athletes, I do recall she was on a panel of around 6 in this space answering end of session questions.

I can talk from personal experience as a once elite level Karate man (former British champ). Keto adapted training for strength and endurance is superior in my view. For short explosive bursts such as 60, 100 and 200 metres, carb based performance I feel shades it, due to the immediacy of the glucose (if ultimate tenth of a second performance is required)...having said that Dr Shawn Baker recently won a world event his age group for a glycolytic rowing event, and in contrast Zach Bitter gained 2 world records, 1 was for running 100 miles in the quickest time. For those who don't know Shaw does full carnivore, Zach uses carnivore / high fatstrategically for optimum recovery.

For some reason beyond me, many back to back tests outside of Volek and Phinney compare persons who are carb burners with persons who have transitioned to the diet for the trial, rather than allowing several months for Keto adaption.

@Mbaker So you are saying there is no room for carbohydrates in any of our diets whatsoever? What is your opinion on carbohydrates as a food source? Throughout the thread both sides of the debate have been prominent and in several cases opinion goes right down the middle.

 

[lucylocket61]

I have around 100g of carbs a day - all sensible carbs like veg, salad, homemade bread made from organic stoneground flour.

I weaned all three of my surviving children on unsweetened eating apple, mashed banana, soft boiled eggs, mashed swede, raw carrots to gnaw instead of rusks. I breastfed them for a year, and introduced food very gradually at around 6 months so they had a long weaning time. They didnt develop a taste for sweet things. However, despite all of that my slim, active, fit eldest is pre diabetic at 36 years old, so we are assuming genetics at play and she is already lowering her carbs to my level. So far its working. She had kept up the good eating habits, so its not junk food related.

 

[Listlad]

I have around 100g of carbs a day - all sensible carbs like veg, salad, homemade bread made from organic stoneground flour.

I weaned all three of my surviving children on unsweetened eating apple, mashed banana, soft boiled eggs, mashed swede, raw carrots to gnaw instead of rusks. I breastfed them for a year, and introduced food very gradually at around 6 months so they had a long weaning time. They didnt develop a taste for sweet things. However, despite all of that my slim, active, fit eldest is pre diabetic at 36 years old, so we are assuming genetics at play and she is already lowering her carbs to my level. So far its working. She had kept up the good eating habits, so its not junk food related.

Thanks. I value your post.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

@Listlad getting back to "sports people" former spin bowler Shane Warne had his baked beans on toast everyday after putting out a request when on tour in India.

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1997-98/AUS_IN_IND/ARTICLES/WARNES_BEANS_06MAR1998.html

 

[Listlad]

@Listlad getting back to "sports people" former spin bowler Shane Warne had his baked beans on toast everyday after putting out a request when on tour in India.

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1997-98/AUS_IN_IND/ARTICLES/WARNES_BEANS_06MAR1998.html

He liked a few beers too, didn’t he?

 

[Honeyend]

If you thought of glucose of intolerance as sunburn, I as ginge avoid the sun and use factor 50 as an adult. I was born in a time where getting a tan was seen as a good thing, and I spent many happy days on the beach as child, I have had a skin cancer removed. Its now common for people to use sunscreen routinely, and if you are fair skinned slap it on.
Perhaps in the future there will be a test for glucose intolerance and we know our genetic map, but at the moment I think we all have to be careful that we do not over consume food that is readily turned in to sugar.
In the past we ate cakes, bread, deserts and the odd bottle of pop, but they were seen as a treat, now it is so easy to graze through the day without thought and without exercise. Most people have no idea about how food is made up, its as simple as fat and sugar is bad, protein is good and as long as you eat your five portions of fruit and veg you are OK. Carbs are very rarely mentioned.
I have step counter which tells you how active you are against other users, I would not consider myself very active but I seem to be in the top 35% which is scary.
I think anyone who has to consumes something to excess to the point that they are developing a medical condition just so they can compete in a sport needs their head testing. If they were repeatedly getting head injuries they would be prevented from playing, even skiers are scanned now for head trauma pre and post training. They are talking about reducing the amount of time spent by footballers heading the ball in training due to the amount of older player developing dementia.
With most injuries/insults to the body its usually repetition over a period of time that causes the damage, if you think of alcohol the odd glass will not cause much damage, the liver can cope, but keep drinking large amounts over a long period and you are heading towards a messy nasty death.
So perhaps for a lot of the population its using the 'moderation in all things', way of eating. Unfortunately there is so much money involved in selling carbs its going to a difficult message to promote when it comes to carbohydrates.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Yes, and probably not low carb VB either...

 

[Listlad]

Yes, and probably not low carb VB either...

But he was at the top of his game though.

 

[Guzzler]

Dr. David Unwin dislikes the 'moderation' term when it comes to T2s. He reckons 'Telling a person with Type 2 Diabetes to eat carbohydrates in moderation is like telling them to have poison in moderation'.

Perhaps you should ask his clone (your GP) his views on said.

 

[lucylocket61]

I see we are back to the 'carbs are poison' view.

moderation levels are different for different people. One persons moderate is not another persons moderate.

I recommend eating to our meters, and keep checking to make sure nothing has changed.

 

[Member496333]

I see we are back to the 'carbs are poison' view.

In fairness that is the the subject being discussed. Perhaps we should all be more tolerant of other people’s views, particularly when they are being asked to share them. You are of course encouraged to disagree if you wish, but complaining about other people’s opinions whilst purportedly promoting tolerance and moderation is more than a little ironic

Considering that type 2 diabetes is caused by inappropriate carbohydrate consumption, then personally I think it’s entirely natural for someone with type 2 diabetes to view carbohydrate as a “poison”. You are free to hold a different view, of course, but please don’t judge others simply because their views don’t align with your own. In this instance I believe the post you’re referring to wasn’t even a personal opinion being shared, it was a reference to the opinion of Dr. David Unwin.

 

[therower]

@Listlad . Carbohydrates.....Food from the Gods.
This would have been a better title for me.
I’ve tweaked, altered and followed my diet over many years as a T1 diabetic.
Naturally I’ve gone down the low carb route on more than one occasion. Problem for me was that it’s a diet that offered a slight negligible reduction in HbA1C and weight loss. ( I had no need or desire to lower either ).. After a 4 month and then very difficult 6 month period of low carbing I reverted back to my healthy and satisfying 150/ 200 g carbs daily, which is actually a lot less carbohydrates daily than the vast majority of the population.
The carbs I consume are fine, give me everything I need to survive and be healthy and happy.
Personally carbs are essential for living my life my way.

 

[Muddikins]

I personally take all sorts of poisonous substances, for example, caffeine, whiskey etc. I do this eyes open and without fear so cognitively I clearly have no problem with it in theory or practice.
It would be very easy for me to apply the same logic to carbs which, for me at least, are equally poisonous and I have the blood work to prove it. However I don't and it is for the same reason I don't take heroin recreationally, frankly its a bit moreish, as the joke goes.
As St. Augustine opined, complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation. For those who can manage moderation then you actually have my respect because I don't think that I can do it but I can, reliably, easily and happily keep my carb count to below 20g and in doing so give myself, what I believe, is my best shout at beating my diabetes.
Just my tuppence worth, you are free to disagree, but it is my way.

 

[Geordie_P]

'Food of the devil' feels like a bit of a strawman: I haven't really seen people saying that.
I've seen people say that type 2 diabetics can control their diabetes by avoiding carbs, and that type 2 diabetics can't handle carbs, so they shouldn't eat carbs if they can help it. I can't see *anything* in any of the above that would convince me otherwise.

 

[Listlad]

@Listlad . Carbohydrates.....Food from the Gods.
This would have been a better title for me.
I’ve tweaked, altered and followed my diet over many years as a T1 diabetic.
Naturally I’ve gone down the low carb route on more than one occasion. Problem for me was that it’s a diet that offered a slight negligible reduction in HbA1C and weight loss. ( I had no need or desire to lower either ).. After a 4 month and then very difficult 6 month period of low carbing I reverted back to my healthy and satisfying 150/ 200 g carbs daily, which is actually a lot less carbohydrates daily than the vast majority of the population.
The carbs I consume are fine, give me everything I need to survive and be healthy and happy.
Personally carbs are essential for living my life my way.

I was going to call it “Carbohydrates Food of the Gods or Food of the Devil? but eventually didn’t.

 

[Listlad]

As St. Augustine opined, complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation. For those who can manage moderation then you actually have my respect because I don't think that I can do it but I can, reliably, easily and happily keep my carb count to below 20g and in doing so give myself, what I believe, is my best shout at beating my diabetes.
Just my tuppence worth, you are free to disagree, but it is my way.

Completely valid point. I can see how it is easier to manage low/no carb for those that want to or need to.

 

[Listlad]

'Food of the devil' feels like a bit of a strawman: I haven't really seen people saying that.
I've seen people say that type 2 diabetics can control their diabetes by avoiding carbs, and that type 2 diabetics can't handle carbs, so they shouldn't eat carbs if they can help it. I can't see *anything* in any of the above that would convince me otherwise.

What I have seen are posts that try to persuade me that I advocate high carb intake when I clearly do not and posts that appear to ram down my throat that my level of carb intake is too much when they are clearly not.

I don’t just post on behalf of myself so those posts that have encouraged me to take carbs out of a young child’s diet are not welcome with me.

 

[bulkbiker]

posts that appear to ram down my throat that my level of carb intake is too much when they are clearly not.

A slight exaggeration for comedic effect I trust?
But as so far as I am aware you are not monitoring your blood sugar levels I would respectfully suggest that you have no idea what the carbohydrate you are ingesting does to you. Your 36 HbA1c is retrospective not predictive.

 

[Listlad]

A slight exaggeration for comedic effect I trust?
But as so far as I am aware you are not monitoring your blood sugar levels I would respectfully suggest that you have no idea what the carbohydrate you are ingesting does to you. Your 36 HbA1c is retrospective not predictive.

Can I refer the right honourable gentleman to my post #157 above.

 

[Robinredbreast]

I see we are back to the 'carbs are poison' view.

moderation levels are different for different people. One persons moderate is not another persons moderate.

I recommend eating to our meters, and keep checking to make sure nothing has changed.

I find the 'Carbs are poison' not true and should not be said at all, intolerant/dislike to carbs, yes.
I am alarmed that it is allowed to be written. even more so, when this thread is actually in Fitness, Exercise and Sport.
People who turn their lives around and do not wish to take any medication, well done to you, but many with or without medication can tolerate some carbs in whatever form they are eaten, I wish I didn't have to take medication...............