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Challenges in KETO

Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by jebin, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    I was diagnosed with RH for 2 years. I have posted the details in below

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/few-clarification-on-rh-management.175181/

    Now, I have been in KETO for 2 months now. Even though blood glucose levels are stable , I am facing the below two issue.

    1. 3 hours after breakfast, I feel very hungry. My usual breakfast is 2 egg + a 25 gm butter coffee + salads. I heard that, in KETO , we usually don't feel much hunger.
      3 hours after breakfast, I take small cup of avocado with nuts and a slice of cheese . But the hunger is not suppressed and
      it will continue till lunch
      3 hours after lunch, the same hunger repeats.
      I had stomach acidity problem during RH. So, I am not sure whether this hunger is due to this acidity. Anyone has experienced this and is there any suggestion to overcome this
    2. When KETO started, my weight was close to 73 kg. Now in 2 months, I am close to 66.5 kg. I am 172 cm in height. Does this weight loss is normal ? I know the weight loss depends on person to person, but how long this weight loss usually happen until reaching a stable weight?

    Few things I would like to know about the food in KETO
    1. Is it ok to have Stevia for sweetener in KETO? Will that cause any insulin response ?
    2. Other than different kind of berries, is there any other fruits we can take in KETO
    3. Is it mandatory to have 150 gram fats everyday . I am not finding a best way to reach this 150 grams everyday. Any suggestion on this.
    4. Do we need to restrict carb to 20 gram, or can we take upto 50 gram
    5. Anyone had experience in using psyllium husk while in KETO
     
  2. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @jebin I don't think you are eating enough. I am a bit greedy, but 2 eggs and salad would not satisfy me. I would add bacon or maybe kippers, enough to feel full, or combine meals 1 and 2.

    Whilst your body is repairing berries are safest. When I was in Disney Land berries were non existent, and I got great results on satsumas. I eat home ripening plums when they are hard. You will need to check fastidiously your blood glucose.

    Stevia works well, but perhaps see this as a stop gap, a transition, otherwise you can keep the cravings going.

    Regarding fat don't measure, your not treating epilepsy. If you ate salmon or steak with some avocado, courgettes and radish, there would be good fats, protein and low carbs - real whole foods is the key.

    Depends on your goals as to what levels of carbs. Eric Westman says 20, to guarantee the needle moves, Virta Health say 30 and measure keytones. You are making superb progress, so eat broadly and titrate to suit your goals e.g. to eat more food without the hit, up protein and promote fat loss.

    Psyllium husk bunged me up at first when used to make seed crackers. I can now tolerate loads in coconut flat breads. I think this is a gut bacteria shifting process.
     
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    #2 Mbaker, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:43 PM
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  3. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    If you are losing weight and you are hungry, why not eat more?
     
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  4. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I'm afraid that 'KETO' seems to be regarded as magic - you follow the rules and it works for your - but eating low carb in the same way as the Atkins way of eating seems to work a lot better as it is tailored to your needs - have a proper meal for breakfast, or at least add foods so you don't feel hungry three hours later.
    I eat food remaining from the previous days dinner, or I have something that starts with three eggs, scrambled with cheese added, with some salad stuff - but if I feel the need I can eat a stirfry or I make it a huge salad. Then I don't need to eat until 12 hours later,. I eat nowhere near 150 gm of added fat - probably nowhere near that amount from foods - that is over 5 ounces. I might add 1/2 an ounce of fat from butter with the eggs and cream in coffee at breakfast time and maybe a little more in total in the evening - as I eat fatty foods. That controls my diabetes - but wouldn't eating less frequently also benefit RH?
    I find that exceeding my personal limit of 40 gm of carbs means that I have to ignore feelings of hunger in order to get back to normal again..
    I do use psyllium husk flour, along with coconut, almond and other flours, but have learned to bake in really small quantities or to freeze most of what I make at once, as I tend to eat too much - sometimes it doesn't help to be a good cook.
     
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  5. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Jebin, you describe breakfast but not your other meals.

    Those reducing carbs, or going keto tend to lose a bit of weight to start with; often because they don't replace the dropped carbs with anything, or anything to render enough calories.

    If you weightloss is persistent, you somehow need to eat more. Your choices, if you want to stay really low carb, or keto would be to eat larger portions of everything, up your protein, and or up your fats.

    When I went low carb, I lost weight and had trouble stabilising it. I did the above until the losses stalled.
     
  6. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    ok
    So, like you mentioned, I will increase my food intake.
     
  7. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    Hope you know that RH is different from Type 2. So, regarding psyllium husk flour and Stevia, an RH person should know whether it will cause any insulin response.
    Regarding fat intake, some of the online websites mention about this 150 gram quantity
     
  8. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    Please take my points in a different way. After having a breakfast with 2 eggs and 25 gram butter coffee and salad, still I feel hungry after 3 hours, In KETO, fat is primary fuels and I should be getting that from breakfast, So, my question should be like, with this breakfast, during the initial stage of KETO , this hunger is expected after 3 hours ?

    Regarding weight loss,.. in KETO , weight loss is expected. What I am trying to understand is , 7 kg weightless in 2 months period for 172 cm height is normal ? and how long did this weight loss continue until it stabilize ?
     
  9. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    please see below my usual schedule

    breakfast with 2 eggs + cup of salads + occasionally a small piece of meat or fish
    3 hours later- snack with half avocado + 10 each of nuts ( pecans ,brazil nut, almonds ,cashew)
    1.5- 2 hours later- lunch with cup of vegetables and 200 gram of either beef or lamb or dish +5 each of blueberry or 1-2 strawberry

    3-3.5 hours later snack - option 1 .alf cup of Greek yogurt + 10 piece of nuts ( pecans ,brazil nut, almonds ,cash
    option 2 - a mix of 1 egg with 50 gram of cooked grounded beef

    2-2.5 hours later - Dinner with cup of vegetables and 200 gram of either beef or lamb or dish + 5 piece of nuts
     
  10. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely sure where you're getting your information from... A lot of people on keto mix it with Intermittent Fasting, they have one or two meals a day, usually skipping breakfast. So you might want to look into what keto means, and what it may mean for you. It's not a one-size-fits-all far as amounts of grams of fats, protein and carbs go, it'll depend on your weight and size for instance. And for your information, the dietary advice for T2's and RH's are extremely similar. Neither of us want a glucose peak. T2's because we can't get it back down easily, RH's because it'll trigger an over-response in insulin. Neither is pleasant. And.... If you have a lot of insulin floating around you can become insensitive to it. And that, in turn, may lead to T2. I never even knew I'd had RH until I was well past that point, got T2, and started learning about insulin, nutrition and whatnot. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ might be of assistance, but really... You just need to know what suits you. A meter and maybe an app like Keto Diet App'll help.

    As for stevia, in some it'll trigger an insulin response, in some it won't. A meter'll tell you on which side you fall. Sometimes when someone has something sweet, the pancreas releases insulin pre-emptively to tackle whatever glucose is coming, but with stevia and other sweeteners, it'll overshoot because it's not needed at all, which as a RH you don't want happening.
     
  11. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    I agree with you that, different person should have different approaches with KETO to tackle this
    Also, its a new information to me that RH can lead to T2. I thought that, T2 happens by born

    I also with a same impression that, Stevia might cause insulin response . I was trying to know regarding that from somebody who has used and experienced

    I am ok with KETO , expect this hunger. I need to find a way to tackle this
     
  12. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Very few people are born diabetic. Type 1 is an autoimmune condition that often shows up in children, but can occur in adults. Lada, Mody etc are similar. Type 2 is a metabolic condition, like RH is too, and one can lead to the other if you have a predisposition for T2. Doesn't mean it'll 100% certainly happen though, but it's worth it to get your HbA1c checked once a year or so, maybe.

    Like many with RH you're eating often, which you don't have to. Every time you eat, you are demanding an insulin response. The fewer of those you have, the fewer possible hypo's. Also, if you just eat proper meals, you know, filling ones rather than counting out a couple of nuts, you wouldn't be hungry all the time. Three or four eggs with bacon and cheese will keep you full for hours, an omelette with a chunk of salmon would too. A good piece of (fatty) meat or something'll go a long way. If you're losing weight you don't want to lose, and are going hungry, just eat more. just make sure it's low carb, high fat, and moderate in protein.
     
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  13. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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  14. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    The hunger is a form of craving.
    Until it stops, and you are really used to being in ketosis, your brain is insisting that you keep eating, it is demanding more glucose. It wants to get rid of any excess insulin by getting you to eat.
    It's the excess insulin circulating around that is the cause not the ketosis.
    You have to be patient and stick to it.

    Keep safe
     
  15. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    yes , that's right. I had similar situation months ago. But , during that period, i was battling with RH. Hunger was due to dip in blood glucose level.
    now in keto, glucose fluctuation is not really happening.
    as you said, i need to increase fat and some protein
     
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  16. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    yes, i need to revisit my meals and needs correct the quantity
     
  17. jebin

    jebin · Member

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    that could be the reason.
    its a bit tough sometime, but i keep patient, we don't have another option until a proper medication arrives
     
  18. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Totally agree, mate.
    When I lost control a few months ago, I started craving, and it was this because of my circumstances that led to me being out of ketosis. It took a while to get back into it.
    I still have a look in the wife's treats, to see what is there. Argh!

    Keep safe
     
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