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Cholesterol and Statins

Discussion in 'Other Health Conditions and Diabetes' started by bulkbiker, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Hope @bulkbiker is okay with my adding this new presentation here - I think it fits with the theme:

    Dr Nadir Ali, Cardiologist speaking at Ketofest 2018 on The Paradox of Insulin Resistance versus LDL Cholesterol

     
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  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Sure thing I just want it to be a repository for all things cholesterol and statins. post away!
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Wow... just watching that presentation.. anyone taking a statin needs to watch!
     
  4. DJC3

    DJC3 Type 2 · Expert

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    This post is exactly what I want!
    Thank you @bulkbiker for putting it together. I do get confused about cholesterol and worry about statins sometimes ( I stopped taking them of my own volition in Feb) and often think ‘I know there was a good article posted here a week/ month or so back’ then struggle to find it again so it’s great to have everything in one place. Agree a sticky would be good.
     
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  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    https://drc.bmj.com/content/5/1/e000438

    Another study linking Statins and development of Type 2

    "Conclusions In this population at high risk for diabetes, we observed significantly higher rates of diabetes with statin therapy in all three treatment groups. Confounding by indication for statin use does not appear to explain this relationship. The effect of statins to increase diabetes risk appears to extend to populations at high risk for diabetes."
     
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  6. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @bulkbiker for putting in the time and effort to help all of us. I have a very dear friend who has had cardiac episodes and was given statins along with other drugs. He changed both mentally and physically and went from being a lively, humorous, physically very active artist to an uncreative befuddled man who could not walk without pain. After several years on statins he has decided to stop taking them and is slowly returning to his normal self. Another friend, an ex-Professor of Music, found the side effects so horrendous that he stopped taking the statins within 2 weeks. He set out to walk for an hour each day, lost weight and is now a much fitter, more cheerful 80 year old. I know that these are anecdotal tales but I too will never be taking statins!
     
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  7. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @bulkbiker for putting in the time and effort to help all of us. I have a very dear friend who has had cardiac episodes and was given statins along with other drugs. He changed both mentally and physically and went from being a lively, humorous, physically very active artist to an uncreative befuddled man who could not walk without pain. After several years on statins he has decided to stop taking them and is slowly returning to his normal self. Another friend, an ex-Professor of Music, found the side effects so horrendous that he stopped taking the statins within 2 weeks. He set out to walk for an hour each day, lost weight and is now a much fitter, more cheerful 80 year old. I know that these are anecdotal tales but I too will never be taking statins!
    An extremely interesting and largely very convincing case. However, one of the great advantages of watching online is being able to freeze slides and consider the data. I would query some of the conclusions drawn e.g. graph at 11.44 of muscle damage (creatinine kinase levels) vrs statin use. The standard deviations are ignored by the presenter. The data in this study does not show any actual significant difference in CK levels between the statin group and the control. Similarly the data from the Lothian study is open to other interpretations. I appreciate that the presenter is swimming against the tide of Big Pharma and most of the medical profession but equally he must remain completely credible.
     
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  8. pluto1a

    pluto1a Type 2 · Member

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    Although I joined this forum on behalf of my special needs son, who has just about all hormones in need of restoring due to Hypopituitarism and Septo -Optic Dysplasia , I am, at present doing the Low Carb Diet with the Pre-Diabetes Programme. I am also Hypothyroid after sub-total thyroidectomy for Graves. So many of the problems overlap for both conditions and on the Thyroid forums I belong to we are also against taking Statins for high Cholesterol. I feel that this thread with the information you have given on Metformin (as many thyroid patients take this too) @bulkbiker, would also be useful to them. Can I have your permission to give this information on these forums too please. I also know that some of our forum are also on this forum, so hopefully they will see this thread too.
     
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    #28 pluto1a, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:14 PM
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  9. KerrieMorrison

    KerrieMorrison Type 2 · Newbie

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    This is all really interesting but a bit over my head from a scientific standpoint. Mum had stroke at 49, dad a heart attack at 59. I started a statin in January when cholesterol was 7.9 and it is now 5.6 but I really don't like taking it (20mg). Lots of conflicting advice, particularly with Diabetes. My last HbA1C was 50, diet controlled, never medicated. GP says 'you know what you need to do' so am working on reducing carbs and increasing exercise.
     
  10. ianpspurs

    ianpspurs Type 2 · Expert

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    Thank you for taking the time to organise this resource. What it has done for me is left me thoroughly dispirited about what I do with all the insights versus the feeling that this is far too important to either ignore or take some kind of gamble.
    Having just about made an uneasy truce between brain and emotion over LCHF I now need to deal with this. I understand that is part of taking responsibility but I really just want to see food, like taste and not spend 2 hrs worrying about bg level then 6 moths worrying about hba1c, cholesterol and just how long this will all work.
    It is and will be very useful but as of now the only thing it has done is arouse fear in me. Hopefully one day I will see this as a turning point but right now it is more like that's all I needed:arghh::arghh:
     
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    #30 ianpspurs, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:46 PM
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  11. The Mouse

    The Mouse Type 1 · Member

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    Do you think that the medical profession can learn anything from this, after my second heart attack my doctor told me I would HAVE to take statins now, as I obviously hadn't controlled my cholesterol. She then looked surprised that my cholesterol was below the level expected (without ever taking statins). One of the sadest things about our doctors is the belief that they know better than the people who live with these conditions. In nearly 64 years of Diabetes, only one doctor has ever told me I know more about living with it than he ever could, because he didn't live with it.
     
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  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I think in the states they found that about 50% of those people who had heart attacks had below "normal" cholesterol... kinda makes you wonder if cholesterol has anything to do with heart disease at all. To be honest I think it doesn't.
     
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  13. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That’s a little sad. I guess all I can say is that even NHS official advice changes from time to time. And those adopting the new advice may do so after this change or sometimes are the forerunners leading the way ahead of time. Who knows yet if LCHF and cholesterol/statins advice will change officially, personally I believe so. Are you a risk taker or a rule follower? Do you want to learn about the information (on both sides) for yourself or would you rather trust your gp? Are your cholesterol levels high enough in the wrong places to need any decision right now?

    For now I’d make a choice and promise myself a review every six months and then forget it til then. Stress won’t help you either.
     
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  14. The Mouse

    The Mouse Type 1 · Member

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    Well while I can keep my cholesterol as low as they need to be, without taking any meds to do this, that is what I will do. I have seen the evidence aganst statins, and will not take a drug on "fudged" drug company evidence.
     
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  15. Thomas the Tank

    Thomas the Tank Type 2 · Active Member

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    Congrats on this informative work. Now perhaps people can get rid of the concept that cholesterol in any size or density is bad!
     
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  16. Bogie

    Bogie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Awesome piece of collective research! This is why I like this forum. I have been taking a statin (Rosuvastatin) since late 2016 and then added CoQ10 after my own research, at that time, into the positives and negatives of taking Statins. I have not had the sore muscles, etc., as many report as side-affects. Your research is compelling and so much so that I am dropping Statins, again, and this time I am not telling my Endocrinologist as she insists on my taking Stains even though my cholesterol is not high. 2 less pills now for my medication diet :)

    Thanks bulkbiker !
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I guess I should add here as a proviso that these reports and videos all of course are supportive of what I think about cholesterol and seem to me to make an extremely strong case against statins. There will of course be an equal number of reports and studies out there that report exactly the opposite (although I think a lot probably pre date the 2005 cut-off that changed the way studies were reported). So as always its up to you guys what you choose to do with the info.
    As I make clear at the start of the thread there's no way that I would take them ever and the stuff I have published here is very supportive of that perspective.
     
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  18. Bogie

    Bogie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There are always opposing points of view but, as you mentioned, a lot of information on the negatives of cholesterol is old and outdated. In this day of rampant capitalism we find it hard to fully believe information that may be financially backed by big pharma interests in sustaining the sale of medications regardless of the latest science and research to the contrary.

    My family doctor, for example, does not believe that genetics is a major factor in whether you get Diabetes, are prone to certain cancers, or not.

    We are very fortunate, thanks to the rapid growth in technology and the Internet, to have the largest source of information ever available to mankind to get that "2nd opinion" through credible websites such as leading medical research facilities, universities, or from others who are inflicted with whatever medical situation you find yourself in - like this forum. Some doctors are very open to their patients looking things up and asking questions. My Urologist, for example, even tells me to look it up online if I want to. The Internet is the world's largest research library that is being constantly updated.

    You only have one life. Don't trust it to a solitary medical opinion or advice if you are faced with something as serious and possibly life altering as Diabetes. Question a diagnosis and treatment to make sure it is the best for you.
     
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    #38 Bogie, Oct 25, 2018 at 11:16 PM
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  19. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Aye, knowledge is power. It is just such a pity that we have to sift through a lot of guff to find an honest account.
     
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  20. The Mouse

    The Mouse Type 1 · Member

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    Most telling point against. US Gov took big pharma to court and forced an admission that the results didn't show what they wanted, so they re wrote it. total pack of lies.
     
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