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Cholesterol and Statins

bulkbiker said:
I guess I should add here as a proviso that these reports and videos all of course are supportive of what I think about cholesterol and seem to me to make an extremely strong case against statins. There will of course be an equal number of reports and studies out there that report exactly the opposite (although I think a lot probably pre date the 2005 cut-off that changed the way studies were reported). So as always its up to you guys what you choose to do with the info.
As I make clear at the start of the thread there's no way that I would take them ever and the stuff I have published here is very supportive of that perspective.
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I must give you huge praise for making clear where you stand and drawing attention to the strength of countervailing "noise" I find it hard to get clear in my mind what constitutes dangerously high or low levels and ratios are. I keep coming back to this thread like wobbling a loose tooth or picking a scab but thanks. Hopefully this will be more like the grit that makes a pearl than anything else. Right now, colour me totally crosswaffled:arghh:
 
bulkbiker said:
I guess I should add here as a proviso that these reports and videos all of course are supportive of what I think about cholesterol and seem to me to make an extremely strong case against statins. There will of course be an equal number of reports and studies out there that report exactly the opposite (although I think a lot probably pre date the 2005 cut-off that changed the way studies were reported). So as always its up to you guys what you choose to do with the info.
As I make clear at the start of the thread there's no way that I would take them ever and the stuff I have published here is very supportive of that perspective.
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bulkbiker said:
One from the great Uffe Ravnskov (specially for @Guzzler )

http://www.ravnskov.nu/2015/12/27/myth-9/

Link to the main site too

http://www.ravnskov.nu
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Thanks for a really informative post @bulkbiker. I, too, would never take statins. High cholesterol used to be the way that thyroid disease was diagnosed,so we always aim to get our thyroid meds optimal. Loss of a stone in weight from last May and different meds has helped greatly and my blood glucose is now back to 5.6 and hopefully will get lower still with LCHF diet.
 
ianpspurs said:
I must give you huge praise for making clear where you stand and drawing attention to the strength of countervailing "noise" I find it hard to get clear in my mind what constitutes dangerously high or low levels and ratios are. I keep coming back to this thread like wobbling a loose tooth or picking a scab but thanks. Hopefully this will be more like the grit that makes a pearl than anything else. Right now, colour me totally crosswaffled:arghh:
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The more I read the more I realise that most people (HCP's) are simply looking at the wrong thing in the wrong way.. The early trial data seems flaky and seems to have never been released for full public scrutiny.. the "experts" who have been in the field for a while have a very defined set of beliefs and pour scorn on anyone who comes up with alternate hypotheses which explain some of the paradoxes that the "experts" have found. The engineers who are used to examining things in minute detail are the one's who seem to be
1. Doing the best job of explaining how it all works
2. Including convincing explanations for the "paradoxes" that the self proclaimed "experts" can't explain
3. Challenge the experts to prove them wrong.. so far no-one has managed
4. Actively encourage others to come up with testable alternate hypotheses so they can verify their theories.
I hope that one day we'll see people like Dave Feldman and Ivor Cummins winning Nobels for their pioneering work especially as they are coming from a totally different field yet apply engineering logic to metabolic problems.
 
bulkbiker said:
The more I read the more I realise that most people (HCP's) are simply looking at the wrong thing in the wrong way.. The early trial data seems flaky and seems to have never been released for full public scrutiny.. the "experts" who have been in the field for a while have a very defined set of beliefs and pour scorn on anyone who comes up with alternate hypotheses which explain some of the paradoxes that the "experts" have found. The engineers who are used to examining things in minute detail are the one's who seem to be
1. Doing the best job of explaining how it all works
2. Including convincing explanations for the "paradoxes" that the self proclaimed "experts" can't explain
3. Challenge the experts to prove them wrong.. so far no-one has managed
4. Actively encourage others to come up with testable alternate hypotheses so they can verify their theories.
I hope that one day we'll see people like Dave Feldman and Ivor Cummins winning Nobels for their pioneering work especially as they are coming from a totally different field yet apply engineering logic to metabolic problems.
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Thanks for that - I think. Right now all I feel is very confused and vaguely stupid for wandering into this thread. I want to arrive at a point where I feel I am following a course I have plotted myself having made sense of the case on both sides. Right now I feel whatever I do will be be what is best for someone other than me. Anyhow, thanks for the thread and that last post.
 
I'll post here something that a friend of mine (and recent forum member) has compiled but due to not enough posts can't publish because of the links contained within it..

"For those who want to dig quite deeply into the evidence against Statins I can suggest that reading through the many articles and reports on www.spacedoc.com can prove fruitful.

I found the website many years ago when my wife was suffering a range of side effects from Statins. Our GP's response was to try another Statin. My response was to read up on the subject and eventually persuade her that she did not need to take statins. Eventually the GP came on board.

The website spacedoc.com was started by the late Dr. Duane Graveline a USAF Doctor and Astronaut who suffered serious Statin Side Effects. The web site is maintained in his honour and contains a wealth of contributions from Doctors and Scientists.

Bulkbiker links to a website with info from Uffe Ravnskov. There is more information to be found on the website for THINCS The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics. www.thincs.org Uffe Ravnskov is the spokesman for THINCS.

THINCS have published a collection of articles in a book - "Fat and Cholesterol Don't cause Heart Attacks and Statins are not the Solution". For a layman like me it was not an easy read but well worth the effort."
 
@bulkbiker Are you doing the honours and putting up Diamond's lecture from Houston? It is worth posting esp wrt the list of side effects he cites which is even longer and scarier than I thought.
 
Guzzler said:
@bulkbiker Are you doing the honours and putting up Diamond's lecture from Houston? It is worth posting esp wrt the list of side effects he cites which is even longer and scarier than I thought.
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I've been out all day so haven't had time to watch it myself..feel free to put up a link.
 
Thanks BB. First up is David Diamond then Marianne Dimassi and then Ivor Cummins (all speaking to LDL and statins).
There then follows talks by Eric Westman and Jeff Gerber on general LCHF/Keto and the video finishes up with a panel. The video is over four hours so I suspect individual talks will appear on Youtube at some point.

 
Indy51 said:
Interesting tweet by George Henderson in response to the Guardian article that seems appropriate to post here:

View attachment 29253
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Gerber said almost the same thing during the panel Q&A at the end of the piece I linked to above. As secondary prevention, however, it was said by another panelist that studies should be done on those who switch to LCHF/Keto after being diagnosed with atherosclerosis of whatever kind.
The interesting point made was that there now hangs a question mark over low carbers who are not metabolically dysfunctional being prescribed statins and the possible harm done which is really what all of this thread topic is about.
 
Many thanks to Bulkbiker and others for this post. I am due to see a lipid Consultant next Tuesday (referred by my Diabetes Consultant) due to my cholesterol being 6.6 (HDL 2.2, trigs 0.5 and the rest LDL). NO family history that would indicate FH but the Diabetes Consultant says in his opinion, that is what he thinks I have. All current glucose levels are good/weight in the middle of the BMI range/exercise every day/don't smoke or drink etc - I say this just to set the scene!). I will be fully armed (because of THIS post) to ask him very direct questions about statins, I would be grateful for any specific questions anyone thinks I should ask!
 
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